poking a bunch that could out and out cream them ,
Hey Gilbert please explain in more details .....
All respect No offence
Hey Gilbert please explain in more details .....
All respect No offence
Call for a Peaceful End to Zionism
- Thread starter earth_as_one
- Start date
If I'm 5 foot 5 inches, 160 pounds, and armed with a water pistol, there's no way I would constantly provoke some guy who is 6 foot 6 inches, 350 pounds, and carrying a 9mm Glock.
IOW, Israel is powerful, Palestines aren't. Foolish for the Palestines to keep provoking Israel. Actually it isn't just foolish, it's stupid.
Zzarchov said:
Israel gets several billion in subsidies every year from the USA. None of us are happy to see that our Constitution's prohibition against establishment is being violated every day. If the government would only obey the law, Israel would not have the money it needs to make war and would be forced to make the concessions that will create peace.
http://www.jewishworldreview.com | [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Richard Ben Cramer is an American journalist who has written well-received books on baseball and politics. He also covered the Middle East extensively as a reporter for The Philadelphia Inquirer, winning a Pulitzer Prize in 1979. In 2002, he returned to Israel to find out what had happened to the country in the intervening years. The result is a book called "How Israel Lost," just out from Simon and Schuster. [/FONT]
I have always respected Mr Cramer for his great baseball writings. This book may well be worth exploring.
Years ago I had a friend who was Jewish and from Brooklyn, NY where I grew up. His wife was an ex-lieutenant in the Israeli army. She was a strict pacifist and refused to take up arms. In fact, she would rather have taken a bullet to her heart than to fire upon anyone else. Because of that she was in the medical corps where, evidently, she served with great distinction. Contrary to what many may believe, she felt it was Israel that was the aggressor in the conflict. As such, she could not in good conscience stay in that country and she left it vowing never to return. And she is not alone as thousands of people emigrate from the Zionist state every year!
Perhaps it is no secret why 10 % of Israel's population lives in the NYC area alone!
http://www.cabalamat.org/weblog/art_428.html
Net Emigration from Israel
Mon, 07 Feb 2005, 19:07 UCT People often talk about immigration to and emigration from Israel, but I've rarely seen figures; which is irritating because it's hard to understand anything if you don't know the relevant facts. Recently however I came across this:
Over the period 1996-2004, the figures are:
Year immigrants Israelis Total
1996 60716 -11000 49716
1997 56093 -34000 22093
1998 48546 -2000 46546
1999 70604 -24000 46604
2000 55751 -17000 38751
2001 39559 -17000 22559
2002 30395 -18000 12395
2003 20894 -30200 -9306
2004 18366 -29600 -11234
The "immigrants" column refers to net immigration of people classified as immigrants or potential immigrants. The "Israelis" column is net immigration of Israeli citizens; this is negative no doubt because most Israelis already live in israel therefore there are likely to be more leaving than entering. "Total" is simply the two numbers added together.
I've made a graph:
This shows that between 1996 and 2002, Israel was a country of net immigration, and that since 2003 it has had net emigration.
This data plus the graph is available as an Open Office spreadsheet: israel_immigration.sxc. (If you don't have Open Office, it's a free download. Better still, it is Open Source so it'll never lock you in to one vendor.)
Categories: Israel
Years ago I had a friend who was Jewish and from Brooklyn, NY where I grew up. His wife was an ex-lieutenant in the Israeli army. She was a strict pacifist and refused to take up arms. In fact, she would rather have taken a bullet to her heart than to fire upon anyone else. Because of that she was in the medical corps where, evidently, she served with great distinction. Contrary to what many may believe, she felt it was Israel that was the aggressor in the conflict. As such, she could not in good conscience stay in that country and she left it vowing never to return. And she is not alone as thousands of people emigrate from the Zionist state every year!
Perhaps it is no secret why 10 % of Israel's population lives in the NYC area alone!
http://www.cabalamat.org/weblog/art_428.html
Net Emigration from Israel
Mon, 07 Feb 2005, 19:07 UCT People often talk about immigration to and emigration from Israel, but I've rarely seen figures; which is irritating because it's hard to understand anything if you don't know the relevant facts. Recently however I came across this:
According to Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics (see http://www.cbs.gov.il/yarhon/e1_e.htm) here is the balance of movement of Jews into Israel (immigrants and potential immigrants plus Israelis entering, minus Israelis leaving): 1995: +32K
1996: +50K
1997: +22K
1998: +46K
1999: +47K
2000: +38K
2001: +23K
2002: +12K
2003: - 9K
first 2 months of 2004: -13K !!
Perhaps for the first time in Israel's history, the flow of Jewish immigration has reversed. Israel is now a net exporter of Jews to the diaspora. Extrapolating from the first two months of 2004, it is likely that the numbers for the whole of 2004 and 2005 will be at least -50K, larger in magnitude (but opposite in direction) than the average annual immigration into Israel in the previous decade.
In fact, we now have more up-to-date figures for 2004: for the whole year, there were 18,366 new immigrants, while there was a net emigration of 29,600 Israelis, making a net emigration of 11,234 people. 1996: +50K
1997: +22K
1998: +46K
1999: +47K
2000: +38K
2001: +23K
2002: +12K
2003: - 9K
first 2 months of 2004: -13K !!
Perhaps for the first time in Israel's history, the flow of Jewish immigration has reversed. Israel is now a net exporter of Jews to the diaspora. Extrapolating from the first two months of 2004, it is likely that the numbers for the whole of 2004 and 2005 will be at least -50K, larger in magnitude (but opposite in direction) than the average annual immigration into Israel in the previous decade.
Over the period 1996-2004, the figures are:
Year immigrants Israelis Total
1996 60716 -11000 49716
1997 56093 -34000 22093
1998 48546 -2000 46546
1999 70604 -24000 46604
2000 55751 -17000 38751
2001 39559 -17000 22559
2002 30395 -18000 12395
2003 20894 -30200 -9306
2004 18366 -29600 -11234
The "immigrants" column refers to net immigration of people classified as immigrants or potential immigrants. The "Israelis" column is net immigration of Israeli citizens; this is negative no doubt because most Israelis already live in israel therefore there are likely to be more leaving than entering. "Total" is simply the two numbers added together.
I've made a graph:
This data plus the graph is available as an Open Office spreadsheet: israel_immigration.sxc. (If you don't have Open Office, it's a free download. Better still, it is Open Source so it'll never lock you in to one vendor.)
Categories: Israel
That is common sense. I was responding to posts which portray Israel as an innocent victim, responding to attacks by Palestinians. My posts show what Israel is up to. Israel has never stopped its ethnic cleansing and Jewish-only settlement building over demolished Palestinian homes and farms. Its reasonable to expect that the people on the recieving end of this kind of treatment will fight back no matter how badly outgunned they are.
Another point was the impact killing unarmed civilians is having on young Israelis most of whom must serve in the IDF.
What are the longterm consequenses of exposing generation after generation to a situation where they can commit atrocities against unarmed civilians with impunity?
Yes that is common sense earth, but you do not equaly challenge the "Palestinians" for their actions, all your posts are decidedly biased, your sources as well. Some of which blatantly ignore the actions of the Hezbollah or the "Palestinians", that parcipitated the actions of the IDF, that they are crying about.
Your avoidance of my question, as to why you feel this is just a land grab, when Israel returned the oil rich Sinia to Egypt, is humourous at best.
I wonder if the Hezbollah or Hamas worry about the impact their actions are having on those people that live in the residential areas, in which they fire their rockets from?
Let me guess how you will respond...
Israel is just dishing out what it gets? You must be kidding.
How many Israel homes have been demolished by Palestinians?
This is a link to an Israeli source:
http://www.btselem.org/english/Publi...emolitions.asp
How many Palestinian only settlements have been built on land confiscated from Israelis?
Same Israeli source:
http://www.btselem.org/English/Publi..._Land_Grab.asp
I do not agree with all the actions of the IDF nor the Israeli government, but Zionism is DEAD. It is survival now, that dictates Israel's actions. Actions that are in direct accordance to the actions of the Arabs set against them.
When the Arab nazi party fully accepts Israel's right to exist and they prove this by hunting down and punishing those that violate Israel, or cease their shipments of arms to the Arab nazi fighters in the region, we'll talk. Until then you are pissing into the wind.
Israel knew it would have to make peace with Egypt. Egypt basically washed its hands of Palestinians. If Israel's intention was to occupy Cairo and turn it into their capital city, Egyptians would be in the same situation as Palestinians.
What would you have Palestinians do in response to millions of Jewish refugees setting up a homeland on your olive grove which had been passed down for hundreds of generations?
The Olive Harvest 2004
Holy Land Trust
The annual Palestinian Olive Harvest is seeped in cultural traditions that have been followed for generations throughout the region. From October 10 to 30, Holy Land Trust connected volunteers from around the world with Palestinian farmers in the West Bank to lend a hand and to experience this time-honored tradition.
HLT volunteers worked side-by-side with men and women from Daher's vineyard near Nahaleen village in the Bethlehem District of Palestine. They were introduced to Palestinian village life and the importance of land in the Palestinian culture.
Although the volunteers experienced the simplicity of rural life, these farmers shared stories of how their agricultural life is unavoidably tied to the current Israeli-Palestinian struggle.
The olive grove is surrounded by Israeli settlements, built on land confiscated from these Palestinian villages. And to the East, the internationals observed the additional encroachment onto the land from the construction of the Israeli Wall. The combination of the settlements and Wall on former village land will isolate the Villages from their neighbors and restricted the freedom of movement of people and produce.
At the end of their stay, both the volunteers and the farmers commented on the importance of this joint effort. The farmers emphasized that the volunteers' presence helped to break-down their isolation from the outside world and helped to protect the harvesters from settler attacks which have happened in the past. The volunteers felt they were able to better understand the realities of rural Palestinian life better than if they had just read reports. There was no replacement for a personal experience. More than 20 people participated, representing several countries, including France, New Zealand, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States.
We hope to welcome back our volunteers from this year and greet new participants for Olive Harvest 2005. Ahalan wa sahalan!
See this article at:
http://www.zatoun.com/about_farmers.htm
http://www.zatoun.com/about_farmers.htm
Eventually this remnant communal Palestinian olive grove will also disappear under a Jewish only colony. The IDF will evacuate the area, using as much force as necessary, bulldoze it, put up a wall, and build roads, sewers and condos.
For centuries Jews, Muslims and Christians used to share communal harvests. Now they share death and destruction. Even die hard apologists for Israel's crimes must be able to see how sad this is.
The Lemon Tree: An Arab, a Jew, and the Heart of the Middle East
BY Sandy Tolan
...I learned that a Palestinian family, the Khairis, had built the house in 1936, and planted a lemon tree in the yard. They lived there until the war, when like almost all the families of that town, they were forced into exile by the arriving Israeli army. The eldest son of that family was Bashir, six years old, who vowed that some day, he would return home with the many other Arab families who were driven out of Palestine.
Four months later, a family of Bulgarian Jews, the Eshkenazis, who had remarkably survived the Holocaust, arrived in the fledgling state of Israel to seek safe haven. They soon found themselves in the town of Ramla, where they moved into a stone home much to their liking. In the back yard, there was a lemon tree. The Eshkenazis' only child was Dalia, who was 11 months old when her parents landed on the boat from Europe.
"As I put together the "Lemon Tree" radio documentary, I was struck by how each family had lived with phantom images -- that of their counterparts, whom they had never met.
For nearly 20 years, Dalia and Bashir grew up not knowing each other, yet in a profound sense wondering about each other: Who lives in my house now? Bashir wondered. What happened to the people who lived her before? Dalia wanted to know. Bashir, as he grew into a young man, grew increasingly committed to returning to his homeland -- by political agreement, or by force; Dalia grew anxious that the Arabs would expel her from the only home she knew, and push her into the sea. In the spring of 1967, with Arabs and Israelis openly threatening each other, both families grew increasingly anxious...
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/blog/2006/06/the_lemon_tree_1.html
What would you have these people do? Disappear? Whose solution was that? Nazi Arabs or Nazi Europeans? Whose solution is it to wall off Palestinians into little enclaves which are little better than concentration camps. Nazi Arabs or Nazi Israelis?
I am well aware of the death and destruction on both sides.
But the root cause is injustice and oppression. Little more than 60 years ago, Jews were getting it from Europeans. Now they dish it out to Palestinians and Palestinians react the same way Jews did:
This historical uprising resembles Gaza today, where the occupation forces are IDF soldiers and the civilians are Palestinian refugees.
If
if
if
if
if
if
If people would only mind their own business there wouldn't be war either.
If I had a chance to get out of a country that was constantly being harassed by it's neighbors with bombs, rockets, etc. I'd friggin well leave, too.
Whatever Israel is up to does not cleanse Palestines of their idiocies. Two wrongs don't make a right.
So the only ones killing unarmed citizens are the Israelis?
I don';t know. Suppose we ask them or the Palestines. Or Irani, or Syrians, or Egypt, or Iraqi, or ......
This is BULLSHYTE of the worst kind......a complete smear on the Israelis.
As has been pointed out to you over and over and over again, were the Israelis engaged in genocide against the Palestinians, THERE WOULD BE NO PALESTINIANS. There were 800,000 evicted or fled in 1948. That number has swollen to 2.4 MILLION. Must be the least successful "genocide" in history.
So tell me, how many Jews were left in Warsaw a year after the uprising?
No, don't bother, I'll tell you ........NONE Zip NADA They were all DEAD, or in Auswitch awaiting death.
You REALLY can't be so stupid as to equate these two situations...........
oh, BTW, one other thing.......the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto weren't busy killing each other either.........
Palestinians are ARABS! They are not a separate group by ethnicity, religion, language, history or any other benchmark of a people. They have been abused more by their Arab "brothers" than by anyone else......abandoned by Egypt and Jordan, encouraged to sacrifice themselves and their children by Syria, Iraq, et al.......
If it were me, I'd say I can make room for a few in my olive grove. Not millions, but I have room for a few. Whatever religion they would practise would be none of my business either.
Are you a clairvoyant that you can say this with such certainty?
And it's all Israel's fault. I see. :roll:
If it were me, I wouldn't stick around and keep the strife going. I'd wander off somewhere else and start my olive orchard.
You sure like to sound as if the entire ME mess from start to finish was the Israelis doing, though. Seems incredibly one sided, to me.
Nope. The root is people cannot mind their own business. Can't live and let live. BOTH sides are guilty.
BTW, if the Palestines were considerably more powerful than the Israelis, there would be no such thing as an Israeli.
Colpy, The only thing Nazis did to Jews that the Israeli government hasn't done to Palestinians is exterminate them. Other than that Palestinians have suffered the same kinds of humiliation, injustices and oppression suffered by Jews under Nazi occupied Europe.
Non-Jews have to put special licence plates on their cars to identify themselves. Non-Jews have been driven out of their homes into walled in ghettos for non-Jews by angry Jewish mobs and soldiers. The government confiscates homes and property of people of the wrong race/religion and gives it to people of the right race/religion...
Other than extermination, I challenge you Colpy, to find an example of one atrocity committed by Nazis against Jews that hasn't been suffered by Palestinians.
I can see a lot of similarities. So can many IDF soldiers.
Non-Jews have to put special licence plates on their cars to identify themselves. Non-Jews have been driven out of their homes into walled in ghettos for non-Jews by angry Jewish mobs and soldiers. The government confiscates homes and property of people of the wrong race/religion and gives it to people of the right race/religion...
Other than extermination, I challenge you Colpy, to find an example of one atrocity committed by Nazis against Jews that hasn't been suffered by Palestinians.
I can see a lot of similarities. So can many IDF soldiers.
Funny, I wasn't aware muslims treated Jews well, in fact I think they have a special term, Dhimmi? It basically means inferior.
Even if they accept being Dhimmi though, that isn't enough.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6307745.stm
Its funny, not only does Israel treat palestinians better than any Arabs treat any Jews, it tends to treat them by and large better than most other countries treat their own citizens.
For all the damage Israel does to Palestine, it has never approached the damage Iraqi Arab Nationalists under Saddam did to the Kurds..
Even if they accept being Dhimmi though, that isn't enough.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6307745.stm
Its funny, not only does Israel treat palestinians better than any Arabs treat any Jews, it tends to treat them by and large better than most other countries treat their own citizens.
For all the damage Israel does to Palestine, it has never approached the damage Iraqi Arab Nationalists under Saddam did to the Kurds..
Apparently you are ignorant of the experments performed by the Nazis on those they felt were inferior. I hardly think the Israeli subject anyone to the extremes that the Nazis went. That is an incredible exaggeration for you to make.