Call for a Peaceful End to Zionism
- Thread starter earth_as_one
- Start date
``` If I had a chance to get out of a country that was constantly being harassed by it's neighbors with bombs, rockets, etc. I'd friggin well leave, too. ```
That's unpatriotic! After all, if foreign attack was reason to leave your country, Palestinians and Lebanese would have left in droves!
That's unpatriotic! After all, if foreign attack was reason to leave your country, Palestinians and Lebanese would have left in droves!
I've got to say, the lack of an attempt by the Israelis to exterminate the Palestinians is quite a big difference to overlook.........but OK, we'll play the game your way........
TOP TEN DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NAZI TREATMENT OF JEWS, AND ISRAELI TREATMENT OF PALESTINIANS
1. The Germans forced Jews to wear the Star of David on their clothing to show they were Jews.
2. The Nazis papered the country with propaganda posters showing the Jews as sub-human.
3. the Nazis performed medical experiments on Jews.
4. The Nazis prevented jews from getting an education.
5. The Nazis refused to let Jews teach.
6. The Nazis destroyed all Jewish synagoges.
7. The Nazis never offered the Jews a nation of their own.
8. The Nazis never allowed the Jews to found their own government.
9. The Nazis never tolerated Jewish leaders that preached murder of Germans.
10. The Nazis used the Jews as slave labour.
just off the top of my head........
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So it's unpatriotic. Better a wise chicken than a dead moron. One can always regroup and come back later. Staying there and watching your kids, neighbors and seniors die in restaurants and markets at the hands of suicide bombers, rockets, etc. can't be healthy. Perhaps you would prefer to watch that sort of thing perhaps die while you're stuffing your face with a big mac, not me. After all, there are more peaceful places available.
Colpy: I've got to say, the lack of an attempt by the Israelis to exterminate the Palestinians is quite a big difference to overlook.........but OK, we'll play the game your way........
The Nazis didn't start out exterminating Jews. They started out by doing many of the same things the Israeli government does to Palestinians. But once a nation legitimizes systematic oppression of one group of people its a slippery slope.
Israel as the occupying force in the West Bank and Gaza is responsible for the rights, safety and security of people living there.
TOP TEN DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NAZI TREATMENT OF JEWS, AND ISRAELI TREATMENT OF PALESTINIANS
1. The Germans forced Jews to wear the Star of David on their clothing to show they were Jews.
All adults who live in areas controlled by Israel must carry ID cards which identify who is a Jew and who isn't. The ID is a different color for non-Jews and contains different information. If the ID has a birthdate in the Hebrew calender, the person is a Jew. If the ID uses the standard calender, they are non-Jew. Palestinians have a completely different identity card which identifies them as Palestinians. The information on their card which conforms to Israeli standards controls where they are allowed to go. So no its not pinned on their shirt, but authorities can determine race/religion by a person's id and they treat them according to their religion/race.
2. The Nazis papered the country with propaganda posters showing the Jews as sub-human.
You think Israel isn't a source of anti-Palestinian propaganda? Israel's propaganda is more sophisticated and overwhelming, but essentially it serves the same purpose. Palestinians have been successfully demonized by Israeli propaganda. Israeli propaganda has effectively made the words Palestinian and terrorist interchangeable.
The Israeli government, America's massive pro-Israel lobby (AIPAC) and other powerful Jewish oganisations pressure all print and television media to accept Israelis justifications of its actions in Palestine. Israel has permanent press offices in all its embassies abroad, and hired some of the largest and most professional public relations companies in New York to 'enhance' its image abroad and 'spin' the truth.
If you don't think Israel uses propagada, try attending an AIPAC conference like this woman:
Her observations are supported by this Harvard research paper into Israeli propaganda efforts in the US.
As a result of pro-Israeli groups like AIPAC, we rarely hear news about Palestinians which portray them as human beings or criticize Israel's actions. Instead most of us believe Palestinians are intolerant fanatical terrorists and killers and Israelis are victims.[/color]
The pro-Israeli propaganda portraying itself as news has become so thick, that people have forgotten what real journalism looks like. This website shows several examples of real journalism:
http://www.brasscheck.com/videos/middleeast/me5.html
Its more than just the news and media.
Israel's web propaganda war:
http://card.wordpress.com/2006/12/03/human-rights-watch-israels-web-propaganda-war/
3. the Nazis performed medical experiments on Jews.
Does researching the effects of new weapons count?
Example of an Israeli experiment on Palestinians:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/772933.html
How about researching new torture techniques?
4. The Nazis prevented jews from getting an education.
The IDF has bulldozed Palestinian schools and killed Palestinian students on the way to school, playing in the schoolyard and sitting in class.
Education denied
http://right2edu.birzeit.edu/news/catindex28
Even outside the war zone, non-Jews don't get the same schoolings as Jews
Discrimination Against Palestinian
Arab Children in Israel's Schools
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/israel2/
5. The Nazis refused to let Jews teach.
I am unable to find an example of a Palestinian teaching at an Israeli university. Can you find one?
6. The Nazis destroyed all Jewish synagoges.
A few synagogues survived, but granted it was Nazi policy. Israel on the other hand has respected most non-Jewish places of worship, but they do occasionally demolish mosques.
[quote]...Israel's interior ministry sent in a crew to demolish the local mosque earlier this month. It was, the government said, built without a permit. So is every home in every one of the villages. "This land was my father's land and my grandfather's land. The government says it will recognise this land as mine if I agree to sell it to the state, but not if we want to do anything else with it," Mr Abu Kaf said. "The state wants to eradicate the bedouin and confiscate their land, they want to establish a Jewish settlement here...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,903627,00.html [/quote]
7. The Nazis never offered the Jews a nation of their own.
Sure they did. That's where all the trains were headed. To a place for Jews and other undesirables could live.
In effect non-Jews relocated by Israel off their land were put in similar living conditions and system of governance as their Jewish counterparts under the Nazis.
But lets look at Israel's generous offer of Palestinian statehood:
What a deal. You can have your own country inside our country, guarded by Israeli soldiers and to compensate Palestinians farmers for the loss of their farms, Israel granted Palestnian farmers dominion over Israel's toxic waste dumps. How generous.
8. The Nazis never allowed the Jews to found their own government.
Neither has Israel. When Palestinians attempted to elect leaders Israel didn't like, Israel, the US, Canada and other nations removed Palestinians ability to govern themselves by withholding international aid. Israel also withholds Palestinian tax revenue which is collected by Israel on behalf of the Palestinian government and then given (or withheld) by the Israel government. In effect Palestinians are controlled by Israel, not their own elected government. A government without power to rule, control its borders, budget or policies isn't really a government.
9. The Nazis never tolerated Jewish leaders that preached murder of Germans.
You mean like this?
http://www.aljazeerah.info/Special Reports/Shaikh Ahmed Yassin's Assassination.htm
10. The Nazis used the Jews as slave labour.
Its not state policy, but many Palestinian labourers working in Israel are more or less slave labourers.
The Nazis didn't start out exterminating Jews. They started out by doing many of the same things the Israeli government does to Palestinians. But once a nation legitimizes systematic oppression of one group of people its a slippery slope.
Israel as the occupying force in the West Bank and Gaza is responsible for the rights, safety and security of people living there.
TOP TEN DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NAZI TREATMENT OF JEWS, AND ISRAELI TREATMENT OF PALESTINIANS
1. The Germans forced Jews to wear the Star of David on their clothing to show they were Jews.
All adults who live in areas controlled by Israel must carry ID cards which identify who is a Jew and who isn't. The ID is a different color for non-Jews and contains different information. If the ID has a birthdate in the Hebrew calender, the person is a Jew. If the ID uses the standard calender, they are non-Jew. Palestinians have a completely different identity card which identifies them as Palestinians. The information on their card which conforms to Israeli standards controls where they are allowed to go. So no its not pinned on their shirt, but authorities can determine race/religion by a person's id and they treat them according to their religion/race.
2. The Nazis papered the country with propaganda posters showing the Jews as sub-human.
You think Israel isn't a source of anti-Palestinian propaganda? Israel's propaganda is more sophisticated and overwhelming, but essentially it serves the same purpose. Palestinians have been successfully demonized by Israeli propaganda. Israeli propaganda has effectively made the words Palestinian and terrorist interchangeable.
The Israeli government, America's massive pro-Israel lobby (AIPAC) and other powerful Jewish oganisations pressure all print and television media to accept Israelis justifications of its actions in Palestine. Israel has permanent press offices in all its embassies abroad, and hired some of the largest and most professional public relations companies in New York to 'enhance' its image abroad and 'spin' the truth.
If you don't think Israel uses propagada, try attending an AIPAC conference like this woman:
Her observations are supported by this Harvard research paper into Israeli propaganda efforts in the US.
As a result of pro-Israeli groups like AIPAC, we rarely hear news about Palestinians which portray them as human beings or criticize Israel's actions. Instead most of us believe Palestinians are intolerant fanatical terrorists and killers and Israelis are victims.[/color]
The pro-Israeli propaganda portraying itself as news has become so thick, that people have forgotten what real journalism looks like. This website shows several examples of real journalism:
http://www.brasscheck.com/videos/middleeast/me5.html
Its more than just the news and media.
Israel's web propaganda war:
http://card.wordpress.com/2006/12/03/human-rights-watch-israels-web-propaganda-war/
3. the Nazis performed medical experiments on Jews.
Does researching the effects of new weapons count?
Example of an Israeli experiment on Palestinians:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/772933.html
How about researching new torture techniques?
4. The Nazis prevented jews from getting an education.
The IDF has bulldozed Palestinian schools and killed Palestinian students on the way to school, playing in the schoolyard and sitting in class.
Education denied
http://right2edu.birzeit.edu/news/catindex28
Even outside the war zone, non-Jews don't get the same schoolings as Jews
Discrimination Against Palestinian
Arab Children in Israel's Schools
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/israel2/
5. The Nazis refused to let Jews teach.
I am unable to find an example of a Palestinian teaching at an Israeli university. Can you find one?
6. The Nazis destroyed all Jewish synagoges.
A few synagogues survived, but granted it was Nazi policy. Israel on the other hand has respected most non-Jewish places of worship, but they do occasionally demolish mosques.
[quote]...Israel's interior ministry sent in a crew to demolish the local mosque earlier this month. It was, the government said, built without a permit. So is every home in every one of the villages. "This land was my father's land and my grandfather's land. The government says it will recognise this land as mine if I agree to sell it to the state, but not if we want to do anything else with it," Mr Abu Kaf said. "The state wants to eradicate the bedouin and confiscate their land, they want to establish a Jewish settlement here...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,903627,00.html [/quote]
7. The Nazis never offered the Jews a nation of their own.
Sure they did. That's where all the trains were headed. To a place for Jews and other undesirables could live.
In effect non-Jews relocated by Israel off their land were put in similar living conditions and system of governance as their Jewish counterparts under the Nazis.
But lets look at Israel's generous offer of Palestinian statehood:
What a deal. You can have your own country inside our country, guarded by Israeli soldiers and to compensate Palestinians farmers for the loss of their farms, Israel granted Palestnian farmers dominion over Israel's toxic waste dumps. How generous.
8. The Nazis never allowed the Jews to found their own government.
Neither has Israel. When Palestinians attempted to elect leaders Israel didn't like, Israel, the US, Canada and other nations removed Palestinians ability to govern themselves by withholding international aid. Israel also withholds Palestinian tax revenue which is collected by Israel on behalf of the Palestinian government and then given (or withheld) by the Israel government. In effect Palestinians are controlled by Israel, not their own elected government. A government without power to rule, control its borders, budget or policies isn't really a government.
9. The Nazis never tolerated Jewish leaders that preached murder of Germans.
You mean like this?
http://www.aljazeerah.info/Special Reports/Shaikh Ahmed Yassin's Assassination.htm
10. The Nazis used the Jews as slave labour.
Its not state policy, but many Palestinian labourers working in Israel are more or less slave labourers.
Israel’s Dirty Little Secret - Slavery
gcfraser writes "Genevieve Cora Fraser, Ramallah Online Columnist
Three months ago, on Thursday, March 30, 2006, the Israeli High Court struck down Israel’s slavery law that had been on the books since 1952. According to the Israeli Human Rights organization Kav LaOved, “The view of migrant workers in Israel as the employers' property is reflected above all (in) the "binding arrangement" which makes the worker the employer's slave.
Section 6 of the Entry to Israel Law, 1952, a.k.a. the Binding Agreement, grants the Interior Minister the power ‘to stipulate conditions in a visa or in a residence permit, compliance with which shall be a condition for the validity of the visit or the residence permit’. As applied by the Interior Ministry, “the work permit belongs not to the worker but to the employer; the worker is in fact bound or fettered to the specific employer whose name is stamped in his passport. Such binding to an employer is an imperative condition for the worker's legal status in Israel,” according to a Kav LaOved statement issued in 2004.
In 2004, the UN Special Rapporteur on human rights of migrant workers, Ms. Gabriela Rodriguez Pizarro, reported to the UN Commission on Human Rights that migrant workers complained about minimum wage violations, poor lodging conditions, use of violence by the employer and passport confiscation not properly acted on by the Police and the Labor Ministry’s enforcement division....
http://www.ramallahonline.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2481
and you wonder why people develop these views of Palestinians when you read articles like this?
Israel bakery bomber kills three
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/29/israel.blast.ap/index.html
Okay, this is starting to get on my nerves.
There is a HUGE difference between being forced to carry ID (which many nations do, although I disapprove), and being forced to wear a highly visible indication of your "sub-humaness" That is blatantly obvious. Not even CLOSE to the same thing.
Not the same thing again. When you show me a poster placed by the Israeli government showing an Arab dripping jewish blood from his fangs, then I'll be convinced.
No. The use of new weapons against an enemy is not the same as conducting genetic and other experiments on prisoners. Get real.
We are not talking about differences in education, we are talking about not being allowed ANY education. Not the same thing at all.
Probably, but nothing I would do could pull you out of your hatred-inspired beliefs anyway. Palestinians DO teach in schools under Israeli contol in the occupied territories.
Fair enough.
WOW! This reveals all. Like to re-start those trains, wouldn't you?
If you choose a bunch of lunatic genocidal terrorists to lead the PA, fine. Deal with the consequences. They STILL are in government.
9. The Nazis never tolerated Jewish leaders that preached murder of Germans.
You mean like this?
http://www.aljazeerah.info/Special Reports/Shaikh Ahmed Yassin's Assassination.htm
This is EXACTLY the kind of relativism that makes me SICK!
Yep, the Jews of Auswitch were lining up to go to their jobs in the slave labour camps. Oh, so eager they were.....
SLAVERY< WHAT HORSE****!
Low paid, perhaps, but the Palestinians cry every time Israel closes its borders so they can't get to work.....doesn't sound like slavery to me.
You have got some twisted mind to even try to equivalize the condition of European Jews in the 40s and Palestinians today.
Seek help.
There is a HUGE difference between being forced to carry ID (which many nations do, although I disapprove), and being forced to wear a highly visible indication of your "sub-humaness" That is blatantly obvious. Not even CLOSE to the same thing.
Not the same thing again. When you show me a poster placed by the Israeli government showing an Arab dripping jewish blood from his fangs, then I'll be convinced.
No. The use of new weapons against an enemy is not the same as conducting genetic and other experiments on prisoners. Get real.
We are not talking about differences in education, we are talking about not being allowed ANY education. Not the same thing at all.
Probably, but nothing I would do could pull you out of your hatred-inspired beliefs anyway. Palestinians DO teach in schools under Israeli contol in the occupied territories.
[/QUOTE]
Fair enough.
WOW! This reveals all. Like to re-start those trains, wouldn't you?
If you choose a bunch of lunatic genocidal terrorists to lead the PA, fine. Deal with the consequences. They STILL are in government.
9. The Nazis never tolerated Jewish leaders that preached murder of Germans.
You mean like this?
http://www.aljazeerah.info/Special Reports/Shaikh Ahmed Yassin's Assassination.htm
This is EXACTLY the kind of relativism that makes me SICK!
Yep, the Jews of Auswitch were lining up to go to their jobs in the slave labour camps. Oh, so eager they were.....
SLAVERY< WHAT HORSE****!
Low paid, perhaps, but the Palestinians cry every time Israel closes its borders so they can't get to work.....doesn't sound like slavery to me.
You have got some twisted mind to even try to equivalize the condition of European Jews in the 40s and Palestinians today.
Seek help.
I just opened up the Globe and Mail to see this:
Israelis appoint Muslim Cabinet Minister.
Yep. There were a whack of Jews in Hitler's inner circle. (sarcasm alert)
Israelis appoint Muslim Cabinet Minister.
Yep. There were a whack of Jews in Hitler's inner circle. (sarcasm alert)
Ok, Pro-Palestinian People, if you are really thinking the Holocaust and the Occupation of Palestine are the Same (this doesn't mean that because it isn't holocaust bad it isnt' still wrong) please tell me if the following is true.
TOP TEN DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NAZI TREATMENT OF JEWS, AND ISRAELI TREATMENT OF PALESTINIANS, with retort by insane nutball
1. The Germans forced Jews to wear the Star of David on their clothing to show they were Jews.
- All Palestinians are forced to wear orange jumpsuits with a crescent emblazoned on the front of it!
2. The Nazis papered the country with propaganda posters showing the Jews as sub-human.
- Every Israeli streetcorner has posters of filth covered Palestinians trying to rape small Israeli Children! They blare on TV how more and more '' verminous '' Palestinians are forming rape gangs to target Jewish women!
3. the Nazis performed medical experiments on Jews.
- 12 different hospitals have hundreds of Palestinians strapped to beds! they are injecting them with poisons to see how quickly they die! They are peeling off their skin to see how quickly they die! They are force feeding palestinians human tissue to see how fast their stomach explodes!
4. The Nazis prevented jews from getting an education.
- Any Palestinian caught reading, or with a book, especially the Koran is dragged off an never seen again!
5. The Nazis refused to let Jews teach.
- Palestinians found to be teaching in secret are publicly executed along with their family!
6. The Nazis destroyed all Jewish synagoges.
- All the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem and every mosque in the occupied territories was set alight! all the Imans were hung in town squares!
7. The Nazis never offered the Jews a nation of their own.
- Palestine only asked to be able to flee the occupied territories and emmigrate to other countries, but they are butchered if they try and flee!
8. The Nazis never allowed the Jews to found their own government.
- Any public congregation of Palestinians is dispersed with gunfire!
9. The Nazis never tolerated Jewish leaders that preached murder of Germans.
- One Iman suggested that we protest for rights, he was shot in public!
10. The Nazis used the Jews as slave labour.
- Thousands upon thousands of Palestinians are forced into Press gangs, slaving away to build the Partition wall and dig mass graves to put their own children in!
if this isn't an accurate description, then maybe ..just maybe, you don't understand how bad the holocaust was and should stop trying to compare everything wrong in the world to the holocaust, Oh no! I stubbed my toe! its like the holocaust all over again, grow up..
TOP TEN DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NAZI TREATMENT OF JEWS, AND ISRAELI TREATMENT OF PALESTINIANS, with retort by insane nutball
1. The Germans forced Jews to wear the Star of David on their clothing to show they were Jews.
- All Palestinians are forced to wear orange jumpsuits with a crescent emblazoned on the front of it!
2. The Nazis papered the country with propaganda posters showing the Jews as sub-human.
- Every Israeli streetcorner has posters of filth covered Palestinians trying to rape small Israeli Children! They blare on TV how more and more '' verminous '' Palestinians are forming rape gangs to target Jewish women!
3. the Nazis performed medical experiments on Jews.
- 12 different hospitals have hundreds of Palestinians strapped to beds! they are injecting them with poisons to see how quickly they die! They are peeling off their skin to see how quickly they die! They are force feeding palestinians human tissue to see how fast their stomach explodes!
4. The Nazis prevented jews from getting an education.
- Any Palestinian caught reading, or with a book, especially the Koran is dragged off an never seen again!
5. The Nazis refused to let Jews teach.
- Palestinians found to be teaching in secret are publicly executed along with their family!
6. The Nazis destroyed all Jewish synagoges.
- All the Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem and every mosque in the occupied territories was set alight! all the Imans were hung in town squares!
7. The Nazis never offered the Jews a nation of their own.
- Palestine only asked to be able to flee the occupied territories and emmigrate to other countries, but they are butchered if they try and flee!
8. The Nazis never allowed the Jews to found their own government.
- Any public congregation of Palestinians is dispersed with gunfire!
9. The Nazis never tolerated Jewish leaders that preached murder of Germans.
- One Iman suggested that we protest for rights, he was shot in public!
10. The Nazis used the Jews as slave labour.
- Thousands upon thousands of Palestinians are forced into Press gangs, slaving away to build the Partition wall and dig mass graves to put their own children in!
if this isn't an accurate description, then maybe ..just maybe, you don't understand how bad the holocaust was and should stop trying to compare everything wrong in the world to the holocaust, Oh no! I stubbed my toe! its like the holocaust all over again, grow up..
Apparently some teachers have a little bit of good sense:
http://www.hrea.org/lists/hr-education/markup/msg00972.html
http://www.hrea.org/lists/hr-education/markup/msg00972.html
I get my facts from reading both sides, then wonder how sourses such as earths can miss half the facts in their biased articles.
I get my facts from having served a tour as a UN Peacekeeper in the Golan Heights.
I get my facts by sifting through the minucia and applying logic to the scenerio. If it holds water, you can pretty much be sure it's real.
I don't have a forgone conclusion in mind as I read information.
As I have come to enjoy your posts LG, I'm hoping that was a humourous rhetorical question.
As a foot note,
When I first started here, I was completely under the impression the IDF did nothing wrong. I have sence changed that point of view and readily admit that their targetting practices leave a lot to be desired. I also believe that Israel has committed war crimes, caused a lot of its own problems and so on. But I still back Israel because Israel is head and shoulders above any of the countries that surround it.
btw earth, The wall you keep crying about, the one you keep saying is penning "palestinians". It isn't. That is just more of the hyperbol you feel the need to twist to your agenda. That wall is purely for the safety and security of Israelis. It isn't hold "palestinians" in anything, it's holding them out. Get a grip.
As for your post in reply to mine. I printed it out and wiped my ass with it. It was just more of the same old same old BS from you.
And I ask again, perhaps you might answer the question this time, if this is a land grab, why did Israel return the oil rich Sinia? Your politician style answer the first time, cleared up nothing.
It was a half-humorous post I made but I was also hinting that if people are making quotes, they should include sources or links for the quotes.
Yeah, it's beneficial to change views as new data keeps coming in. (Unless one is strictly partisan, that is).
Um J K Galbraith once said, "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." He was accurate and the sentiment is cause for great hilarity sometimes.
I generally include sources or supply them as requested or needed.
It was a half-humorous post I made but I was also hinting that if people are making quotes, they should include sources or links for the quotes.
Yeah, it's beneficial to change views as new data keeps coming in. (Unless one is strictly partisan, that is).
Um J K Galbraith once said, "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." He was accurate and the sentiment is cause for great hilarity sometimes.
As for Zzarchov's post, I think he created the well thoughtout sarcastic piece himself.