How can we get rid of our sinfulness?

[sanctus]

Hi, Yes, first to love God as witnessed by the first 5 commandments, and then loving thy neighbor as witnessed by the last five commandments.

But the first step is to give of oneself to God in Jesus, and He will sweep out all the sins and the terror of the sins out of us.
And Yes, it takes knowledge of those things in order to understand what we are in Christ.

Peace>>>AJ

If you'll forgive me, I find that a bit simplistic in scope. Salvation is not a one time event. It is a process, a continual stepping into the light from darkness and it is very much ongoing. Even men in the Church sin, sometimes more so than they love. What is to be done with this? Are we to simply say "it must be the devil"? Consider that the devil is what is inside of us, our greed and selfishness. It works both ways! In other words, far too many people in the Church are content to blame the evils around them on an arbitrary force, Satan, and ignore the evil within themselves.

 

[sanctus]

arent some things evil? i mean, there has t be some purely evil things? like communists for example, or hitler?

Are some things purely evil? Or some people? An age old question with no set answers. I suspect even for those seen as purely evil, there are aspects of them which are good, even in men like Hitler.

Communism? Do you mean the political system or the theory? The theory is not in and of itself evil. It denies the need for God, true, but outside of that it is, if you think about it, somewhat close to what Jesus and the Apostles taught regarding how men should live together.

We have not seen a purely communist nation yet on this earth. It would be interesting if one could exist!

 

[Curiosity]

Dear Sanctus

Good read - feedback is stimulating as well - you have found your voice for us.

 

[sanctus]

Dear Sanctus

Good read - feedback is stimulating as well - you have found your voice for us.

Merci! Aren't you nice:smurf:

 

[MikeyDB]

Are some things purely evil? Or some people? An age old question with no set answers. I suspect even for those seen as purely evil, there are aspects of them which are good, even in men like Hitler.

Communism? Do you mean the political system or the theory? The theory is not in and of itself evil. It denies the need for God, true, but outside of that it is, if you think about it, somewhat close to what Jesus and the Apostles taught regarding how men should live together.

We have not seen a purely communist nation yet on this earth. It would be interesting if one could exist!

If personal apprehension of existence enfolds or embraces “being” not as an isolated self-awareness in the universe but as an awareness of being as an integral component thereto… we are ‘god-material’ just like a drop of rain or the furnace in the heart of a star.

Suggesting that a ‘barrier’ or a ‘hurdle’ exists between awareness of being “as defined-by” dogma, doctrine, tradition, culture, ancient texts etc. and the “nature” of the human being manifests embrace of a sense of solitude seeking re-unification with some quality or essence…..that we are and have absolutely no choice about being a part of …already.

 

[look3467]

Sanctus,

I will try to answer all these responses from you that I have quoted below:

Post # 78

What do you mean by "accept it"? Are you speaking of some sort of conversion experience? The "born-again" variety of thought? What if a man's entrance back into the Church was gradual? Is he of the same spirit? not everyone has a "Saul on the road to Damascus" experience! I certainly did not.

First is the knowledge of and acceptance of “the free gift”. Salvation has been “won” for us in Jesus the crucified.

Upon learning and understanding that, Jesus in His Holy Spirit changes our hearts. A conversion if you will, or in other words, a born again experience.

Recall Nicodemus’ story?

Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

That “was a picture” painted for us in that example of what we should experience. (A re-birth)

The last verse: Joh 3:6, says, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh” tells us that we are there already: In the flesh I mean.

Therefore He says, one must be born again, not of the flesh but of the Spirit of God.

What if a man's entrance back into the Church was gradual?>>>sanctus

So be it! At least an effort is made towards God.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

Sanctus,

In response to this post:

Post # 79

What is the test though? who determines it, and the marks for that test! My point is that far too many people, perhaps through good intentions, approach their un-churched neighbors with Bibles in hand, and than cannot figure out why this annoys people.

Faith without works is empty, useless and futile.

The test is life on earth. The requirements for perfection were too great for mankind to perform for the purpose of salvation, so God Himself in Jesus performed that task fort us.

That is why it is a free gift from God to us. Jesus performed for us what we couldn’t do to meet those stringent requirements, thus in our stead, He took our place.

Now, upon understanding what the will of God is (that all mankind should be saved), Jesus comes via the Holy Spirit into your heart and changes your perspective, or gives you a new heart, of which now the heavenly things become our desire.

As for your description of “un-churched” neighbors, I believe is done out of ignorance or for lack of understanding on your part.

They, like you believe that they are doing what is right. They are following, as like you, a belief structure that compels them to go and announce it to the world.

But, they, you and I, are all bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus. Hence: Love our neighbors?

We all have to go through this hellish environment with all its bells and whistles, and we all are seeking God in one form or another.

For some, it is a blessed experience though suffering, and for others, it is a pure hell.

It all depends, on whether we are knowledgeable of the free gift, as a token of the love of God for us.

Did you know that if God where mean and ready to condemn that we would hesitate to come to Him?

Much like an earthly father: If I had a father who was mean and condemning, I would think twice before I would come to him for forgiveness.

But, instead, God is all merciful and loving and ready in an instant to forgive, causing us to come to repentance (Change of mind) and seek His forgiveness.

Heres the verse to back that up:

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Yes! Yes! Thank you Father, for I know I need it, knowing that I can find forgiveness in you, and peace of mind, comfort and joy, as you hold me in your arms and guide me through this life.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

Sanctus,

In reply to this post:

Post # 80

Upon your version of "accepting it", do you think that makes a man pure? In other words, can one lose the salvation one has aquired?
I think dedication to God and the faith requires a stronger committment to do good works, to not only love the neighbour, but to be present when the neighbour is in need. Even if that means not a word of the Gospel is spoken!

Upon acceptance of the free gift it relinquishes you from eternal death and hell, but in no way relinquishes you from how you behave.

Meaning, that for the purposes of eternity, you are made pure (washed in the blood of Christ and made clean). You are made alive forever more, never to die, but live forever.

That is the free gift to us, but still we die right? Yes, the wages of sin is death. So whatever we sow, we shall reap.

What God has given, one can never loose! Salvation, primarily!

What you do with it, is up to you.

Now, the joy of that salvation, one can loose. Meaning, that to walk with God, is peace, joy, being long-suffering, slow to anger and loving, all of which one could loose if we chose not to walk with Him.

Dedication to God is from the heart! If so, then the flesh will follow in good deeds or works.
But, if emphasis on works is an indication of dedication to God, then we are of all men most miserable.
For then we are bound to do those works and not “free” to do those works, which should stem from the heart.

God in us is what produces good works, and without God, no works of any good are produced. They would be akin to hay, wood or stubble, when the fire of God consumes it, nothing would be left, but ashes of what onces used to be.

But, if your works (by God) are made of silver or gold, the fire of God consumes it and remains, purer, for it is tried in the furnace 7 times greater.

Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

A soul that is tested and tried in the furnace and found as gold, God will refine it, and will be to Him “praise and honour and glory”.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[MikeyDB]

Look3467

A molecule of water exists in the same universe as does the thermonuclear cascade that is a star…both ‘things’ exist and their “nature” is the same…

They are both clouds of energy…just like a dream or a thought…

No one has to undertake any kind of “trip” … ‘to god’ unless that’s something you as an individual feel is appropriate for you…and then it’s just you…

If you’re suggesting that this “quality” or “spiritual-essence” or “epiphenomenona of human ideation” is the repository of all that is “good” and merely the act of approaching this “good” will reverberate throughout the universe in waves of peace harmony prosperity satisfaction and happiness…well it could but it hasn’t happened so far… unless you’ve been in touch with someone first-hand of course…

Take plastic for instance…

There are no plastic “mines” that see helmeted miners wearing lantern festooned hardhats workboot-shod grimly entering the bowels of the earth everyday to mine tons of plastic…

Plastic is a human creation… or if you prefer the essence of that noble/omniscient/perfect quality or “essence” which you refer to as ‘god’ has imbued mankind with the means (yes perhaps over millions of years) to poke holes in the ground and retrieve decayed vegetable matter that is then processed and refined into plastic.

Now “plastic” provides the means for creating valves that keep a pump running within the chest of a human being to keep that human being alive…while that same material refined a different way is burned and creating a cloud of suffocating gas around the planet….

Which is “god’s” will here?

Perhaps both?

Perhaps neither?

If you believe that only “good” exists at that unification of human spirit with god-spirit…and plastic comes from…through… that god-spirit and the consequences of the use of that material are simultaneously “good” and “bad”, is the “goodness” or “badness” inhering to the material or the intelligence that manipulates it?

Could you please illustrate for me the understanding of the spiritual dynamic as perceived and elucidated in the Bible or the Talmud or the Koran… what does this spiritual essence have to say about plastic?

Perhaps you’re suggesting that this omnipresent being has left upgrades or notices lying around somewhere that will tell us the “correct” and “good” perspective on disease immunization or life-saving surgical techniques…

Would there be any substance to the notion that although this god-spirit has always existed and has from time to time depending on which text you read…directly involved it/him/her-self with the affairs of mankind that the influence emanating from this larger than the universe… “goodness” has failed to demonstrate a great deal of either stamina or even loyalty when it comes to prosecuting goodness….?

Maybe your understanding of this god-entity isn’t complete and like a stranger lost in a new city, are we better off getting directions from someone who lives there or someone who, like the rest of us is just passing through?

Could you give me that number please……

 

[look3467]

Sanctus,

In response to your reply:


Post #8I

If you'll forgive me, I find that a bit simplistic in scope. Salvation is not a one time event. It is a process, a continual stepping into the light from darkness and it is very much ongoing. Even men in the Church sin, sometimes more so than they love. What is to be done with this? Are we to simply say "it must be the devil"? Consider that the devil is what is inside of us, our greed and selfishness. It works both ways! In other words, far too many people in the Church are content to blame the evils around them on an arbitrary force, Satan, and ignore the evil within themselves.

You are correct Sanctus, it is on-going. In this respect: Salvation is given as a free gift, meaning perfection for the entrance into heaven, thus we are encouraged to strive to that end.
Encouraged: out of a pure heart of thankfulness for that free gift of which, stems out of our love for God.

Yes, we all still sin because we are still living in the flesh. But knowing: that it will not keep us from the love of God which leaded us to love Him more.

You are correct in stating that evil lies within ourselves. If we abide in Christ, we are not condemned, but if we abide not, we are condemned already.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Church is like unto a hospital, it is a place for those who seek healing and who are weak in spirit, who need a dose of Gods love.

But to those who are strong in spirit, they are the helpers in the church, the nurses and doctors of Gods love, who administer His love by way of action.

Weak faith is akin to a small shallow stream, that when an obstruction falls across it, it dams it up quickly, and is diverted easily by the world’s lusts.

These kind need the church for re-enforcement.

But for the strong, it is akin to a deep and wide river, that it would take a monumental obstruction to divert it’s flow.

Of such, as like Peter, of this rock, I will build my church, meaning, of this strong faith is what my church will be built up of.

These are those who exercise the love of God for their fellow man.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[look3467]

Mikey,
I perceive by your explanations that your are an intelligent individual.
More so than I am concerning the realm of science and chemistry.

That I will not argue for lack of knowledge.

But I would refer to Peters comments quote:

“Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk”

I cannot heal anybody as Peter did by Christ, but what information I can share about the bountifulness of Gods Love in Christ, I can.

So I will address those things which I can explain from the word of God as I see it, and that is not to say that anybody should accept my views, but that at least consider it and let God give the increase.

If you’re suggesting that this “quality” or “spiritual-essence” or “epiphenomenona of human ideation” is the repository of all that is “good” and merely the act of approaching this “good” will reverberate throughout the universe in waves of peace harmony prosperity satisfaction and happiness…well it could but it hasn’t happened so far… unless you’ve been in touch with someone first-hand of course…>>>Mickey

Here’s what I understand the word conveys to me about what the love of God does in us, for us and for the world as a whole.

How good is good? Good can only be good when compared to say, no-good.

Hence the tree! The tree of knowledge of good and evil. In this tree, we learn knowledge of: all that you suggested, plastics, water and things and man made things.

But also, we are entombed with the potential of the evil side of that tree, as well.

What quality or thing can we acquire then that can overcome the evil side to where the evil side is made of no consequence?

How about another tree, which is also in the midst of that garden, called the tree of life?

Laying hold of the tree of life is that quality that gives life to this lost soul, who for no reason of my own, was subjected to this tree of knowledge.

Normal reasoning as an explanation: would we prefer to travel across the United States lost without a map, or would we prefer to have a map to guide us?

Yes, we have maps, cars, trains, airplanes, GPS’s and all that stuff, but unless we have a destination (vision) we remain lost with all our toys.

What then is the vision?

Pro 29:18 Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.

The vision then to please God, by making His law a joy to perform.

Now “plastic” provides the means for creating valves that keep a pump running within the chest of a human being to keep that human being alive…while that same material refined a different way is burned and creating a cloud of suffocating gas around the planet….

Which is “god’s” will here?>>>Mikey

The will of God is that you and I learn from this worlds experience the value of love.

God is love, and that love has no beginning and no ending.

But Gods love is born in us out of adversity. Therefore, necessitating of a spiritual birth.

A marriage if you will between the spiritual and the physical, creating a living soul.

Could you please illustrate for me the understanding of the spiritual dynamic as perceived and elucidated in the Bible or the Talmud or the Koran… what does this spiritual essence have to say about plastic?>>>Mickey

There is first Mickey, two separate and distinct worlds. There is the physical and the spiritual.

Jesus said: “

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

The physical world was given to us to subdue, to live and make good out of it, and the spiritual world can only be had if one is “born” from it, to inherit it.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

A “new creature” is just that, a new creation, but not subject to the one which passed away. (The old creation, the flesh)

This new creature is given a new set of laws of which are no limitations.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Would there be any substance to the notion that although this god-spirit has always existed and has from time to time depending on which text you read…directly involved it/him/her-self with the affairs of mankind that the influence emanating from this larger than the universe… “goodness” has failed to demonstrate a great deal of either stamina or even loyalty when it comes to prosecuting goodness….?>>>Mickey

This Spirit, what ever it is to you or to me, means only one thing, the fruits of it there of, define of which spirit it is.

If Goodness and love are produced by the spirit in mankind, then I’d say and believe it is the Spirit of the Almighty God, ruler, and creator of the whole universe.

The intelligence in mankind is limited to what revelation comes from it’s creator to cure deceases, new inventions and the like.

Perhaps you’re suggesting that this omnipresent being has left upgrades or notices lying around somewhere that will tell us the “correct” and “good” perspective on disease immunization or life-saving surgical techniques…>>>Mickey

Yes, it is called “The Holy Spirit”

The Holy Spirit is at work even in the unbeliever in ways and means which many of us could not understand.

Maybe your understanding of this god-entity isn’t complete and like a stranger lost in a new city, are we better off getting directions from someone who lives there or someone who, like the rest of us is just passing through?

Could you give me that number please……>>>Mickey

Mickey,
My directions are clearly stated in the word of God. For me it is the bible, for others it is the Koran, and or the Torah, or the New world translation, or the book of Mormon, or the Holy Book of the catholic Church, and then those who study the Sciences.

One thing for sure, if any of all those mentioned, lack love, then their belief system is useless.

So, tell me, Mickey, what ever you believe in, is love at the center of your belief?

If so, then I applaud you. For not many who profess to love, love, because their belief system discriminates against loving our neighbor, our enemy.

God looks at the heart, not the race, color, status, or religion.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[sanctus]

.

These kind need the church for re-enforcement.

But for the strong, it is akin to a deep and wide river, that it would take a monumental obstruction to divert it’s flow.
Peace>>>AJ

Aj, we all need the Church if we are of the Body of Christ. Weak or strong, we cannot do without its guidance and its Sacraments. This is Biblical too.

 

[sanctus]

Of such, as like Peter, of this rock, I will build my church, meaning, of this strong faith is what my church will be built up of.

These are those who exercise the love of God for their fellow man.

Peace>>>AJ

Don't mis-interpret Scripture, or deny the apostolic ministry established by Christ. Peter was the Rock, on which Christ would build His Church. As such, Peter became the first Pope, from which all other Popes are apostolically descended.

 

[sanctus]

Maybe your understanding of this god-entity isn’t complete and like a stranger lost in a new city, are we better off getting directions from someone who lives there or someone who, like the rest of us is just passing through?

Could you give me that number please……

Maybe we are always lost? Always seeking, sometimes glistening with the knoweldge that we are close to realization of what God is, sometimes far from His presence. The choice for this lies within our own selves. When in unity, we are united in God. He is in us and we are in Him. Some men, such as St. Francis for example, were so attuned to the Spirit of God that their very lives became an example for the rest of us to emulate. Others, like St. John of the Cross, confessed to an absence of the Spirit, penning the classic "Dark Night of the Soul" in which he elaborates on how empty he feels even as he strives to understand God and his place in the world.

 

[sanctus]

Suggesting that a ‘barrier’ or a ‘hurdle’ exists between awareness of being “as defined-by” dogma, doctrine, tradition, culture, ancient texts etc. and the “nature” of the human being manifests embrace of a sense of solitude seeking re-unification with some quality or essence…..that we are and have absolutely no choice about being a part of …already.

In essence I am not suggesting a barrier, except that created within our own selves. We have so many facets inside of us, so many levels of depth and understanding of our place in the world and in relationship to God.

When I was going through my "atheist" phase, I was so certain externally that God was a fragment of fantasy. Yet, inside, in that interior room we all live in, I was not so certain. I felt even then His tug on my soul. As much as I tried to escape it, it eventually wore me down.

 

[sanctus]

Upon acceptance of the free gift it relinquishes you from eternal death and hell, but in no way relinquishes you from how you behave.

Meaning, that for the purposes of eternity, you are made pure (washed in the blood of Christ and made clean). You are made alive forever more, never to die, but live forever.
Now, the joy of that salvation, one can loose. Meaning, that to walk with God, is peace, joy, being long-suffering, slow to anger and loving, all of which one could loose if we chose not to walk with Him.

I most strongly beg to differ on this set of points. We can become absent from salvation. It is not something we hold onto if we choose to leave the faith or walk apart from God. What you suggest is not logical! It suggests that I can become "saved", and from that point on be a right bas***d, and not worry about anything else.

Many people have turned from the faith and we must assume they have lost their glistening of joy once found in Christ.

Salvation is not a one time thing with us, it is a constant and daily struggle to understand and affirm the Spirit of God within us.

 

[sanctus]

Sanctus,

I will try to answer all these responses from you that I have quoted below:

AJ, I am deeply enjoying your comments. On a personal level, I'd be interested to learn of your doctrinal background. In other words, from what perspective do you come from in your faith-Protestant? And if so, what flavour of Protestant?

Just so you know, in case you do not already, I come from a Catholic perspective.

 

[sanctus]

Perhaps neither?

If you believe that only “good” exists at that unification of human spirit with god-spirit…and plastic comes from…through… that god-spirit and the consequences of the use of that material are simultaneously “good” and “bad”, is the “goodness” or “badness” inhering to the material or the intelligence that manipulates it?

Interesting thought! Perhaps both good and bad are tied into what God intended? Maybe the channel is us though, and that being so we are the source of our good and evil. If good, directed towards God, if not, towards evil or Satan if you prefer.

Most of us are both good and evil, it is our nature. We want to do good, but other parts of us wish to satisfy the ego..that place where we are utimately selfish and sefl-focused. It is a struggle, at least for me, to put myself outside of myself in order to do what is good for the people I interact with. I have to remember that it is NOT always necessary to please me first.

 

[look3467]

AJ, I am deeply enjoying your comments. On a personal level, I'd be interested to learn of your doctrinal background. In other words, from what perspective do you come from in your faith-Protestant? And if so, what flavour of Protestant?

Just so you know, in case you do not already, I come from a Catholic perspective.>>>Sanctus

I can pretty much tell from where some come from by their thoughts on paper.
But that does not bother me as it did a few years ago.

I can tell you one thing, that where ever I’ve been, God has been the same to me in intensity of faith as now and as it was then.

As a child I prayed to God in front of a statue of the Virgin Mary. I was an alter boy for a time and my favorite subject in Catholic school was about God. For one period there I had Holy Communion everyday before school. I always had my answers for the priest when he would come and ask us questions about God.

You can see, that to me at that time God was very important to me. And I could feel within my heart that He noticed me.

Years later, my dad decided to attend a Baptist church. Of course, I was very reluctant to go, since I was under instructions to stay away from other religions for fear of going to hell.
But eventually, over time I conceded and went with my dad. To my amazement, I started to learn about the bible in which I had little knowledge of.
I became engrossed in it and loved the bible.
I learned many things there and at age 13, I gave my heart and life to Christ.

From then on, it was a slow learning process as life led me to different religious views.

Being married and acquiring a new family, (IN-laws) there were in the family Jehovah’s witnesses and Mormons.

So I had to study up on their views to learn how to confront them, so I thought.

Suffice it to say, that my journey in my religious growth has been very rewarding and the same God and with my same faith in God, has guided me gently all the way.

My views changed a couple of years ago towards an all inclusive acceptance of all religions.

The reason being is that I believe God has shown me things that I could have never found if I stayed only with one religious belief.

That is why I cannot condemn anybody’ else’s beliefs, because God is the one who deals with their hearts.

In the bible is the whole story, and how God has dealt with His creation.

It is written in such a way that to the serious seeker, the hidden meanings of certain verses and words are revealed.

For example, you mentioned the word rock, to mean to you that Peter was the first Pope.
Well, that is fine with me, since that is how you are able to understand it. Of which I once did to.
But, the word rock means some solid, and hard and something that does not break easily.

Consider your faith; is it solid as a rock? Can that faith of your’s be shaken, or broken?

Jesus is the rock pictured, because His faith wavered not. And Peter faith after Peter confessed that Jesus was the Son of God, wavered not to.

God says that what ever we shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.

Meaning: that heaven is behind us when we pray in His will.

Jesus is the Alfa and the Omega, the beginning of the end.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Jesus at the cross ended the first beginning, and started a new beginning, of which there is no end.

This is “key”, in understanding everything that has taken place from the beginning of time.

If you seek wisdom of God, ask Him, He knows your heart and will give wisdom accordingly.

It is said that a carrot in front of the horse makes him go, well as long as the carrot is there the horse will follow it.

We can say then that that horse has not learned the truth, there by is bound to continue following it.

But if in time the horse learns the truth, hopefully he will be mature enough to go forward without the carrot.

If not mature, the horse would fell content to just stay put and do no work.

Similarly, if the truth is known about salvation , are we mature enough to continue going forward and seeking God’s face?

That is why we are told to work out our salvation as though our work merited salvation.

Salvation is as like the carrot, it keeps people seeking after it.

As for me, I know I have salvation, and in my gratefulness for that, I want to follow living for Christ.

The desire has changed from had to, to want to.

Love being the main motivating factor.

Well, you asked about my background and you got more than expected.

So, I;; leave you with those thoughts.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[L Gilbert]

not really. no. why would it?

Explain how a libertarian who is also a Taoist could be an apologetic for economic determination. The whole point behind libertarianism is "liberty". Perhaps that didn't occur to you.

gee.

what are the odds.

Of what?