The message is simple, the loving is the trial. Love is the message, and the trial is the perfecting of that message.
Peace>>>AJ
Peace>>>AJ
How can we get rid of our sinfulness?
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Consider the life of Jesus. How could Jesus perfect the love message of the Father?
What if Jesus had failed in the process? What then?
Then we would have been without any hope!
Peace>>>AJ
What if Jesus had failed in the process? What then?
Then we would have been without any hope!
Peace>>>AJ
Did Jesus succeed? He certainly did in the hearts of those that have chosen to truly follow Him, but the world in general? Yes, His message is plainly evident. But is his message of reconciliation with God one the world is keenly trying to follow? Heck, even some of those who proclaim themselves part of the Church He founded seem to sometimes use His name to justify absolute horrors. I think we have a long way to go before His message is clearly witnessed by those outside of His faith. Note I wrote "witnessed", not heard.
We cannot assume to enforce or teach this message effectively until we apply it first to ourselves.
The Great Commandment given us by Jesus in Scripture is actually three-fold, but few realize it. Yes, love God above all else, and love your neighbour....as YOURSELF. We have to heal within to before we can hope to heal those around us.
Don't fear being ignorant! It is the beginning of wisdom. Ask, and if you fail to understand, ask again. If it is over your head, it should be explained better.
25 eh...ahhh...so long ago for some of us;-)
It is not so simple. We have to understand that just loving God is the beginning. We also have to realize that it is best our understanding of God be properly channeled. We hope His Church can offer the guidance He wants it to! Too many people pick up Bibles and pull verses out of context, creating odd religions.
Hi, Yes, first to love God as witnessed by the first 5 commandments, and then loving thy neighbor as witnessed by the last five commandments.
But the first step is to give of oneself to God in Jesus, and He will sweep out all the sins and the terror of the sins out of us.
And Yes, it takes knowledge of those things in order to understand what we are in Christ.
The bible is the History of the creation of the Father and the creation of the Son.
It is used for confirmation of those things and as the lsat word, to us is given to us by Jesus.
The new testament is our workbook by which we learn to deal with the difference between what is spirit, and carnal.
Peace>>>AJ
Dietrich Bonhoeffer 1906-1945
His works resonate with a prescience, subtlety and maturity that continually belies the youth of their author.He wrote his dissertation, Sanctorum Communio, at the end of three years at the University of Berlin (1924-1927) and was awarded his doctorate with honors. Act and Being, his Habilitationsschrift, or qualifying thesis, allowing him to teach at the University of Berlin, was accepted in July 1930. The following year, 1930-1931, Bonhoeffer spent a postgraduate year at Union Theological Seminary in New York. He assumed his post as a lecturer in theology at the University of Berlin in August 1931. In the winter semester 1931-1932 Bonhoeffer presented the lectures that were published as Creation and Fall.
His final lecture courses at Berlin -- published as Christ the Center -- along with a seminar on the philosopher G. W. F. Hegel, were taught in the summer of 1933. His authorization to teach on the faculty of the University of Berlin was finally withdrawn on August 5, 1936.Bonhoeffer served as a curate for a German
congregation in Barcelona during 1929-1930. Following his ordination at St. Matthias Church, Berlin, in November 1931, he was to help organize the Pastors' Emergency League in September 1933, prior to asssuming the pastorate of the German Evangelical Church, Sydenham, and the Reformed Church of St. Paul in London.
During his sojourn in England, Bonhoeffer became a close friend and confidant of the influential Anglican Bishop, George Bell. After the Confessing Church was organized in May 1934 at Barmen, Germany, Bonhoeffer returned from England in the spring of 1935 to assume leadership of the Confessing Church's seminary at Zingst by the Baltic Sea--a school relocated later that year to Finkenwalde in Pomerania. Out of the experiences at Finkenwalde emerged his two well-known books, The Cost of Discipleship and Life Together, as well as his lesser known writings on pastoral ministry such as Spiritual Care. His work to prepare pastors in the Confessing Church continued all the way to 1939.
His final lecture courses at Berlin -- published as Christ the Center -- along with a seminar on the philosopher G. W. F. Hegel, were taught in the summer of 1933. His authorization to teach on the faculty of the University of Berlin was finally withdrawn on August 5, 1936.Bonhoeffer served as a curate for a German
During his sojourn in England, Bonhoeffer became a close friend and confidant of the influential Anglican Bishop, George Bell. After the Confessing Church was organized in May 1934 at Barmen, Germany, Bonhoeffer returned from England in the spring of 1935 to assume leadership of the Confessing Church's seminary at Zingst by the Baltic Sea--a school relocated later that year to Finkenwalde in Pomerania. Out of the experiences at Finkenwalde emerged his two well-known books, The Cost of Discipleship and Life Together, as well as his lesser known writings on pastoral ministry such as Spiritual Care. His work to prepare pastors in the Confessing Church continued all the way to 1939.
Bonhoeffer's theologically rooted opposition to National Socialism first made him a leader, along with Martin Niemueller and Karl Barth, in the Confessing Church (bekennende Kirche), and an advocate on behalf of the Jews. Indeed, his efforts to help a group of Jews escape to Switzerland were what first led to his arrest and imprisonment in the spring 1943. His leadership in the anti-Nazi Confessing Church and his participation in the Abwehr resistance circle (beginning in February 1938) make his works a unique source for understanding the interaction of religion, politics, and culture among those few Christians who actively opposed National Socialism, as is particularly evident in his drafts for a posthumously published Ethics.
His thought provides not only an example of intellectual preparation for the reconstruction of German society after the war but also a rare insight into the vanishing social and academic world that had preceded it. Bonhoeffer was also a spiritual writer, a musician and an author of fiction and poetry. The integrity of his Christian faith and life, and the international appeal of his writings, have led to a broad consensus that he is the one theologian of his time to lead future generations of Christians into the new millenium.
He was hanged in the concentration camp at Flossenbürg on April 9, 1945, one of four members of his immediate family to die at the hands of the Nazi regime for their participation in the small Protestant resistance movement. The letters he wrote during these final two years of his life were posthumously published by his student and friend, Eberhard Bethge, as Letters and Papers from Prison. His correspondence with his fiance, Maria von Wedermeyer, has been published as Love Letters from Cell 92.
**family picture: The children of the Bonhoeffer family (Sabine, Dietrich, Christine, Ursula, Klaus, Walter, Karl-Friedrich)
His thought provides not only an example of intellectual preparation for the reconstruction of German society after the war but also a rare insight into the vanishing social and academic world that had preceded it. Bonhoeffer was also a spiritual writer, a musician and an author of fiction and poetry. The integrity of his Christian faith and life, and the international appeal of his writings, have led to a broad consensus that he is the one theologian of his time to lead future generations of Christians into the new millenium.
He was hanged in the concentration camp at Flossenbürg on April 9, 1945, one of four members of his immediate family to die at the hands of the Nazi regime for their participation in the small Protestant resistance movement. The letters he wrote during these final two years of his life were posthumously published by his student and friend, Eberhard Bethge, as Letters and Papers from Prison. His correspondence with his fiance, Maria von Wedermeyer, has been published as Love Letters from Cell 92.
**family picture: The children of the Bonhoeffer family (Sabine, Dietrich, Christine, Ursula, Klaus, Walter, Karl-Friedrich)
He·gel http://education.yahoo.com/referenc....DbCugMMF?id=H0124900&path=prons/H0124900.wav (h
German idealist philosopher who interpreted nature and human history and culture as expressions of a dialectical process in which Spirit, or Mind, realizes its full potentiality. His major works include The Phenomenology of Spirit (1807) and The Philosophy of Right (1821).
Is that the first step? Is it really? I think not. Jesus already took the first step. He redeemed the world on that first Easter Sunday. the step for us is to accept his sacrifice and to apply ourselves to His teachings in His Church.
The problem is we do not want this. We want some sort of "cosmic Christ" who loves everything and condemns nothings. we of course are free to condemn everyone who disagrees with us. we all fall victim to that, I've done it myself-ask Bear! But to have Jesus do so, well..that is another matter altogether.
The true message of Jesus is not so much love as reconciliation with God.
Sanctus,
Of course Jesus took the first step for us. That is clearly understood by you and I.
I mean that is the first principles of foundation of Christ.
When as a child, we understand as a child, but when we grow towards maturity, we no longer think like a child, but like as mature believers.
This is the journey we take towards that end, eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, learning that the tree of life lies within our grasp and made available to us as an invitation free of penalty.
Christ is not cosmic but real in our lives if we allow Him. And Christ condemns no one!
If He did, then the love of the Father would not be in Him.
Now realize this, that the work of Christ was to destroy hell and death, both of which are spiritualy oriented.
Having done that, then, we can now achieve the same status only in the body of Christ, which we know is resurrected.
How is it then that we are dead, buried and resurrected with Christ, while we are still in the flesh?
If we be dead, and raised in the body of Christ, why then are we subject to ordinances?
“Subject to ordinances”?
What shall we set as a standard to require someone to follow Christ? Who will be the judge for that standard?
Surely, not I, but one thing I know, is that those who embrace Christ are free to exercise love, encumbered not by ordinances of mankind.
Yes, Christ is love. We bring upon ourselves our own condemnation by our own disobedience.
Let Christ deal with each person’s heart. Our Job is to show what Christ in us is, as a witness to Him.
Peace>>>AJ
The work of Christ was to reconcile us to God, to teach us to depart from behaviors which seperates us from God. He spoke much more of sin and reconciliation than He did of love. The problem is, we want to hear only those things He spoke of which do not inhibit our lifestyles. In other words, many of us wish to carry on living as we are, assuming it is alright because He loves us no matter what.
I think this is a much over-used word when it comes to what Jesus actually taught. It is used as an explanation for behaviour which is not only sinful, but morally repulsive.
But how do we temper our lives in this ideology if we do not have love? Love is generated through our conciousness as followers of Christ, but not as a tool to give us permission to carry on in our lives as if whatever we did was ok.
Better re-read the Bible, for He clearly speaks of hell. He did not come to end hell, that's for certain
I understand your point of view. I have heard it many times. Yes, we condemn ourselves, but no, I disagree with what I think you are saying in regards to knowing the teachings of Jesus. It is not our individual place to determine what is and is not of Christ. That is why He provided the guardian of the faith, the Church.
Outside of that, we run afoul of His teachings too easily. We get the "Jimmy Jones" and that sort of ilk because too many people pick up Bibles and start ranting about this or that "interpretation", as if two million different versions can all be equally correct.
Faith also requires spiritual discipline. We cannot just go off on tangents without some sort of guidance.
This may shock you, but I firmly believe far too many people have somehow turned the Bible itself into an idol, forgetting that the Bible is 72 books collected by the Church for the Church. The Bible is a series of revelations on our relationship with god, but it does not contain all of God. In short, it is not the end and beginning of the faith.
One other thing I just thought of.
, we have to be careful in our faith walk. Too often the same God we proclaim as all loving has been used to hurt a great many people. So many "Christians" have used the Bible to harm so many other people! Speak to Bear on this own forum, and others like him, who have experienced exactly what I am talking about. True faith is love, and doing what we believe is right as followers of Christ. One thing that disturbs me personally, especially with our more fundamentalist sects, is their inability to actually live the Gospel instead of just mouthing off Bible verses to people in need.The point here is, if you are starving, it is my job as a Christian to feed you, not recite verses at you.
Sanctus,
True! “The work of Christ was to reconcile us to God”. And that stands alone.
For since the beginning, bad behavior separated us from God and still does, but the difference is, that before Christ, we were under penalty of eternal death.
But after Christ that penalty was lifted, offering us salvation if but if we would accept it.
And, if we did accept it, then we would no longer learn to walk in the lusts of the flesh, but after the fruits of the spirit.
That is why it says:
.
Jesus spoke of those things that would bind us from the liberty of the freedom that He was about to give, and therefore warning us to beware of those things.
Love does no ill to our neighbor, but a lack of it does.
One cannot automatically have love without a test! If we say we have love, but have not been tested, how would we show that we have love?
Love is born in adversity.
Peace>>>AJ
What do you mean by "accept it"? Are you speaking of some sort of conversion experience? The "born-again" variety of thought? What if a man's entrance back into the Church was gradual? Is he of the same spirit? not everyone has a "Saul on the road to Damascus" experience! I certainly did not.
What is the test though? who determines it, and the marks for that test! My point is that far too many people, perhaps through good intentions, approach their un-churched neighbours with Bibles in hand, and than cannot figure out why this annoys people.
Faith without works is empty, useless and futile.
Upon your version of "accepting it", do you think that makes a man pure? In other words, can one lose the salvation one has aquired?
I think dedication to God and the faith requires a stronger committment to do good works, to not only love the neighbour, but to be present when the neighbour is in need. Even if that means not a word of the Gospel is spoken!