http://www.transterrestrial.com/archives/008105.html
Oh boy - another conspiracy - this one's really old.
Oh boy - another conspiracy - this one's really old.
Tinfoiler Special for Pearl Harbor Dec. 7th
- Thread starter Curiosity
- Start date
The reason these conspiracies pop is because these kind of things happen. Look at the poisoned Russian spy. He wrote book about how Russia attacked itself to create the necessary conditions to fight Chechnyans. I think we're all kidding oursleves if we just put our heads in the sand and take everything at face value from those who hold all the cards. Creating dialogue about events isn't a bad thing.
Last edited:
What kind of things happen? Vast conspiracies involving thousands of people over dozens of years that somehow remain unproven and based only on flimsy and easily debunked circumstantial evidence like that Pearl Harbor one, despite diligent efforts by conspiracy theorists to get the lid off them?
Nope, he said "Dialogue", a word for something that comes in handy from time to time-
The only thing really illustrated by this piece, in my mind, is that the commonly held belief that somehow WW2 was a "clean, righteous" war on all fronts might not be true- invariably, wars involve all sorts of behind the scenes trickery- the Japanese attacks on Pearl Harbour were not so much justified, but definitely provoked to some extent- I personally don't believe that the above posted theory has any weight, but there's no doubt the US was itchin to A) have a reason to get things going with Japan and B) make that reason look good and righteous
What IS unusual is the odd "value" placed on the Pearl Harbour attacks retroactively, such as thye mention of it as some sort of tool in the PNAC literature- it is odd that the goose would lay such a perfect golden egg, you know?? I mean, what the attacks were used to justify sure worked out good for some folks- the fact that ANY interest could be summarily dismissed in light of this obvious fact is interesting at the least
The only thing really illustrated by this piece, in my mind, is that the commonly held belief that somehow WW2 was a "clean, righteous" war on all fronts might not be true- invariably, wars involve all sorts of behind the scenes trickery- the Japanese attacks on Pearl Harbour were not so much justified, but definitely provoked to some extent- I personally don't believe that the above posted theory has any weight, but there's no doubt the US was itchin to A) have a reason to get things going with Japan and B) make that reason look good and righteous
What IS unusual is the odd "value" placed on the Pearl Harbour attacks retroactively, such as thye mention of it as some sort of tool in the PNAC literature- it is odd that the goose would lay such a perfect golden egg, you know?? I mean, what the attacks were used to justify sure worked out good for some folks- the fact that ANY interest could be summarily dismissed in light of this obvious fact is interesting at the least
I just gave an example. I'm not saying there is any validity at all to this conspiracy. I'm saying that counter-propoganda happens. If Americans were all simply conditioned to accept everything spoken by the Bush's and Blair's of the world about major events they'd be stuck in a place like Iraq. Ooops.
Curio-
Its almost pointless to ask the pussified limpdick masses of boomers,gen x'ers and y'ers to remember Pearl Harbor. They barely remember 9/11.
In fact if it doesn't have anything to do with Playstation 3's, or Americas Top Model, they probably don't want to hear about it.
Its almost pointless to ask the pussified limpdick masses of boomers,gen x'ers and y'ers to remember Pearl Harbor. They barely remember 9/11.
In fact if it doesn't have anything to do with Playstation 3's, or Americas Top Model, they probably don't want to hear about it.
thomaska
Are you saying you remember Pearl Harbor? I was too young to worry too much about it when it happened but my parents told me about it. Before you start calling all "pussified limpdick masses, try to remember that the country you are addressing had already been in the war for a couple years at the time of Pear Harbor.
Yeah. I used to have a Dogde Ram 50, made by Mitsubishi. Good little truck, but I couldn't resist refering to it as "Made by the People that brought you Pearl Harbour"
I want my tin foil hat. All this bs is making my head hurt. I thought it was the Italians that attacked Pearl Harbour.
No, I obviously don't have any first hand accounts of Pearl Harbor that I remember. Don't be so damned pretentious to assume I'm talking about Canada. If the shoe fits wear it. If your aren't one of the limpdicks then you've got nothing to get all butthurt about.
Yes, that's right. Japan didn't have any Imperialistic designs. It was the Americans who were involved in the Rape of Nanjing after all, and who were rampaging all over East Asia a few years prior.
Hey, I didn't say the Japanese were lambs or anything, but honestly, the fighting between several countries in that area was ongoing for several hundred years- the US is far too big and too far away from Japan (not to mention, at the time of WW2, pretty much uninvolved with the country directly, tho the actions in other parts of SE asia undertaken by the US, like in the Phillipines, no doubt led the Japanese to wonder if they weren't set to be similarly "liberated")
The incursions into sovereign waters by the US in the first half of the 20th century was more what I was referring to- what the Japanese were doing on the manchurian peninsula had NOTHING to do with the US, but Japan was sort of "naturally" made an enemy by their little wars with the Russians- since the Russians were "allies", the Japanese wer basically treated as enemies, even tho it was more of a proxy situation
To add another "conspiracy theory" to the mix, I have read some interesting stuff about the nuclear bombs and a pretty good reason why they were used- apparently, the timing of the bombings was directl;y related to a promise Russia had made- that within 3 months from VE day, they would have time to re-arrange their forces and join the war in the Pacific- the nuke bombings happened just days before the Russians would have been considered "officially engaged" in that theatre, and the bombs were used to deny Russia access to the spoils of war... I know, the theory will be deflected with propaganda of the day, but it makes a LOT more sense than any of the other "explanations" I've heard for using the nukes (tho the idea that a test on an actual civilian area would prove real good "hands on" research makes a lot of sense too and was no doubt part of the rationale unofficially)
The incursions into sovereign waters by the US in the first half of the 20th century was more what I was referring to- what the Japanese were doing on the manchurian peninsula had NOTHING to do with the US, but Japan was sort of "naturally" made an enemy by their little wars with the Russians- since the Russians were "allies", the Japanese wer basically treated as enemies, even tho it was more of a proxy situation
To add another "conspiracy theory" to the mix, I have read some interesting stuff about the nuclear bombs and a pretty good reason why they were used- apparently, the timing of the bombings was directl;y related to a promise Russia had made- that within 3 months from VE day, they would have time to re-arrange their forces and join the war in the Pacific- the nuke bombings happened just days before the Russians would have been considered "officially engaged" in that theatre, and the bombs were used to deny Russia access to the spoils of war... I know, the theory will be deflected with propaganda of the day, but it makes a LOT more sense than any of the other "explanations" I've heard for using the nukes (tho the idea that a test on an actual civilian area would prove real good "hands on" research makes a lot of sense too and was no doubt part of the rationale unofficially)
Okay.
The Russo-Japanese War was in 1904...........the Japanese were allies of both the United States and Russia (until the Russians withdrew) in the First World War, from 1914 to 1918. Yep, they were on our side.
Japanese militarism and expansionism in the Pacific were of course a concern of the United States, as were Japan's actions in China.
The UNITED STATES was attacked, in case you didn't notice.
The dropping of the nuclear bombs on Japan SAVED an estimated one MILLION allied lives (estimated casualties of the invasion of Japan), and thus several million Japanese lives that would have been lost if the war had gone on.
There were only a couple of bombs ready in August 1945, with months required to build new ones.
A demonstration was therefore not possible.
In addition, a demonstration would not have forced a Japanese surrender.......the "demonstration" on Hiroshima didn't force them to surrender, they required a booster shot.
THINK before you indulge in revisionist history.
The reason these conspiracies pop is because these kind of things happen. Look at the poisoned Russian spy. He wrote book about how Russia attacked itself to create the necessary conditions to fight Chechnyans.
-----------------------------------------------Kreskin-----------------------------------------------------
Your point is especially true about the Gulf of Tonkin incident used by President Lyndon B Johnson
to escalate the side of American troop involvement.
And to Colpy, you are right that THE BOMB would have saved a million American soldiers
from sure death invading a suicidal island.
However Mabudon's allusion to a secondary if not also a primary reason was certainly to deny
Russia the spoils of war had they enterred the Pacific theatre more forcefully. Eastern Europe
is an example of their spoils of war in the Other Theatre.
-----------------------------------------------Kreskin-----------------------------------------------------
Your point is especially true about the Gulf of Tonkin incident used by President Lyndon B Johnson
to escalate the side of American troop involvement.
And to Colpy, you are right that THE BOMB would have saved a million American soldiers
from sure death invading a suicidal island.
However Mabudon's allusion to a secondary if not also a primary reason was certainly to deny
Russia the spoils of war had they enterred the Pacific theatre more forcefully. Eastern Europe
is an example of their spoils of war in the Other Theatre.