What compels you to champion murder war mayhem and death Colpy?
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Tinfoiler Special for Pearl Harbor Dec. 7th
- Thread starter Curiosity
- Start date
What compels you to champion murder war mayhem and death Colpy?
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
I don't really see how he is "championing" Murder, war mayhem etc. More like he is stating facts.
MikeyDB, you stated, Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
May I tighten up your language to convey a more cogent observation, based on re-juxtapositioning
your own words ???
Violence is the FIRST refuge of the incompetent.
Violence is the LAST refuge of the competent.
How's that ???
May I tighten up your language to convey a more cogent observation, based on re-juxtapositioning
your own words ???
Violence is the FIRST refuge of the incompetent.
Violence is the LAST refuge of the competent.
How's that ???
Hey, Colpy, I re-read my post and can't see what part of what I "revised", everything I posted is, in fact, true, including the agreement that Russia was to fully engage in the Pacific theatre mere days after the dates on which the bombs were dropped- and I DO think when I post here, that's why I sometimes post stuff, cos other things folks have posted makes me think about the stuff I think about, and think about how others think about stuff too- not to call folks names and yell louder than everyone so no-one wants to talk to me, sorry if what I think and know isn't exactly the same as what you think and know
jimmoyer- that revision is pretty fitting, there is pretty much always a better way, even if you have to think REAL BIG
jimmoyer- that revision is pretty fitting, there is pretty much always a better way, even if you have to think REAL BIG
Hey, Colpy, I re-read my post and can't see what part of what I "revised", everything I posted is, in fact, true, including the agreement that Russia was to fully engage in the Pacific theatre mere days after the dates on which the bombs were dropped- and I DO think when I post here, that's why I sometimes post stuff, cos other things folks have posted makes me think about the stuff I think about, and think about how others think about stuff too- not to call folks names and yell louder than everyone so no-one wants to talk to me, sorry if what I think and know isn't exactly the same as what you think and know
jimmoyer- that revision is pretty fitting, there is pretty much always a better way, even if you have to think REAL BIG
Fair enough.
I didn't mean to be insulting.
First,
Didn't the US have Japan in a strangle hold prior to the attacks on Pearl?
Wouldn't that make you little more cautious of the Japanese fleet and where they were?
Second,
Wasn't Japan about ready to fold, before the Bombs?
So why would you need to finsh them off?
I do beleive that the US had prior knowledge of the impending attacks on Pearl, I think they allowed it to take place, to allow them to take a more pivotal/financial position in the war.
I do however think, that they had no idea the would get cought with their pants down and it turn out as severe as it did.
Didn't the US have Japan in a strangle hold prior to the attacks on Pearl?
Wouldn't that make you little more cautious of the Japanese fleet and where they were?
Second,
Wasn't Japan about ready to fold, before the Bombs?
So why would you need to finsh them off?
I do beleive that the US had prior knowledge of the impending attacks on Pearl, I think they allowed it to take place, to allow them to take a more pivotal/financial position in the war.
I do however think, that they had no idea the would get cought with their pants down and it turn out as severe as it did.
Yes, along with Great Britain, the US held an embargo against Japan (oil and other resources) after the Japanese started getting trigger happy in Asia (China was the last straw)
Yes, but lets not forget being cautious and chasing Japanese ships around the Pacific Ocean are two entirely different undertakings. Radar back then couldn't tell the difference between airplanes and a flock of birds (as an example), now try to cover several million square miles of ocean.
Not even close. A small group of civilians started waving the white flag without any authority from the Japanese Empire, as a matter of fact, most of them were executed for treason. Japan was nowhere near ready to fold. Just to touch slightly on the available (concise) evidence. It took TWO atomic bombs for them to surrender. Does that not mean anything without knowing any other details?
On what do you base these claims? I would really like to know.
As the façade slowly slips away what do we find out about the worlds self-declared world-cop and the keeper’s of moral authority?
Conspiracy theorists are easily dismissed, ridiculed and laughed away…
The reason why conspiracy theorists exist (9/11, Waco etc.) is because the government of the United States has participated in establishing and maintaining bloody dictatorships and regimes that practice exactly the same kind of contempt for human rights as the Taliban and as Saddam Hussein ever did…then lied to the world.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2006/12/13/pf-2771191.html
The American government has lied to Canada, it has lied to its own people and it has lied to the world. Why would anyone believe that an American government wouldn’t lie to its own people regarding who was and is behind the tragedy of 9/11?
Oh there certainly are those who honestly believe perhaps that the dropping of two nukes on Japan….saved lives….. Crap of the most vile sort, a mixture of massaged statistics pure lies, exaggeration and conjecture .
That the government of the Untied States was a victim to hostilities from the Hanoi regime….which was the opportunity for American industrialists to build enormous fortunes on the blood of its dying servicemen and women in Vietnam.
That Iran and Iraq both deserved money and arms… so the legality of arming Iraq and Iran (American law) had to be ignored and circumvented to achieve the aims of the American industrial complex….
The invasion of Iraq and subsequent absence of WMD should come as no surprise to anyone who’s watch American governments lie to the world for decades.
The United States of America has lied cheated and stolen through diplomacy that was disingenuous and fake, through military incursion (without any direct threat of any kind to America) and through clandestine operations of the CIA and the NSA to dispose of unacceptable leaderships…(We have to protect our banana crop we have to protect our sugar cane we have to protect our oil, we have to protect the world from Communism…) while erecting bloody dictatorships that have practiced oppression ethnic cleansing, genocide and fraud on an international scale.
The war on terrorism should have started in the Congress of the United States, the United States Senate and every “legal” American administration from the end of WWI.
Suharto, Pinochet, Marcos the legacy of American moral certitude has cost millions upon millions of lives and arrogant Americans think they can continue to run this con-game on the world.
Terrorism didn’t arise in the Persian Gulf nor did it arise in the Middle East. The terrorism that sees the world convulsing in bloody carnage arose in the minds of Americans. It arose under the rubric that America and America alone should be the nation (based of course on its facility to kill as many dissenters as can be managed by spending billions in weapons for “defense”) it arose under the spirit of the Monroe Doctrine and it arose under the guidance and tutelage of self-interested American industrialists who put American business interests ahead of the lives of men women and children all over this planet.
The greater “wrong” is committed not by some fanatical religious faction that practices dehumanizing and inhuman atrocities on women, nor even in the instances of genocide practiced by the dictatorships and regimes we’ve all been told are the source of terrorism, but in the self-righteous moral superiority of a nation of greedy self-interested (to the exclusion of all else including law and justice…) who knowingly contribute to mayhem and destruction in the name of a dollar. The willingness of America to interfere in the name of that dollar everywhere on this planet is one, if not THE principle source of much of the unrest this planet has witnessed for decades.
The greatest threat to world peace is the American attitude that you can provide butchers and madmen with weapons…as long as you can make a profit and get away with it…despite laws..(Nixon, Reagan) That you can interfere with electoral process anywhere where there might be the remotest chance that your puppet won’t achieve power… Haiti, Columbia, Venezuela) that you can turn a blind eye to genocide and terrorism when those instances serve your purpose but can then howl in moral outrage when your “enemy” does the same…
Why does anyone continue to believe that American administrations tell the truth?
You buy the line of American lies and wait a decade or ten until the truth comes out then you can celebrate the wisdom of your zeal for supporting a lying traitorous disingenuous and corrupt nation…the United States of America.
Thankfully for those right-wing zombies who embrace their American “friends”, we have Stephen Harper….a Canadian who’s almost corrupt and disingenuous enough to be an American.
How many millions of dead bodies strew around the planet in the name of American greed does it take to off-set the impression that because America contributes billions of dollars to struggling nations that these practices should just be ignored?
Conspiracy theorists are easily dismissed, ridiculed and laughed away…
The reason why conspiracy theorists exist (9/11, Waco etc.) is because the government of the United States has participated in establishing and maintaining bloody dictatorships and regimes that practice exactly the same kind of contempt for human rights as the Taliban and as Saddam Hussein ever did…then lied to the world.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2006/12/13/pf-2771191.html
The American government has lied to Canada, it has lied to its own people and it has lied to the world. Why would anyone believe that an American government wouldn’t lie to its own people regarding who was and is behind the tragedy of 9/11?
Oh there certainly are those who honestly believe perhaps that the dropping of two nukes on Japan….saved lives….. Crap of the most vile sort, a mixture of massaged statistics pure lies, exaggeration and conjecture .
That the government of the Untied States was a victim to hostilities from the Hanoi regime….which was the opportunity for American industrialists to build enormous fortunes on the blood of its dying servicemen and women in Vietnam.
That Iran and Iraq both deserved money and arms… so the legality of arming Iraq and Iran (American law) had to be ignored and circumvented to achieve the aims of the American industrial complex….
The invasion of Iraq and subsequent absence of WMD should come as no surprise to anyone who’s watch American governments lie to the world for decades.
The United States of America has lied cheated and stolen through diplomacy that was disingenuous and fake, through military incursion (without any direct threat of any kind to America) and through clandestine operations of the CIA and the NSA to dispose of unacceptable leaderships…(We have to protect our banana crop we have to protect our sugar cane we have to protect our oil, we have to protect the world from Communism…) while erecting bloody dictatorships that have practiced oppression ethnic cleansing, genocide and fraud on an international scale.
The war on terrorism should have started in the Congress of the United States, the United States Senate and every “legal” American administration from the end of WWI.
Suharto, Pinochet, Marcos the legacy of American moral certitude has cost millions upon millions of lives and arrogant Americans think they can continue to run this con-game on the world.
Terrorism didn’t arise in the Persian Gulf nor did it arise in the Middle East. The terrorism that sees the world convulsing in bloody carnage arose in the minds of Americans. It arose under the rubric that America and America alone should be the nation (based of course on its facility to kill as many dissenters as can be managed by spending billions in weapons for “defense”) it arose under the spirit of the Monroe Doctrine and it arose under the guidance and tutelage of self-interested American industrialists who put American business interests ahead of the lives of men women and children all over this planet.
The greater “wrong” is committed not by some fanatical religious faction that practices dehumanizing and inhuman atrocities on women, nor even in the instances of genocide practiced by the dictatorships and regimes we’ve all been told are the source of terrorism, but in the self-righteous moral superiority of a nation of greedy self-interested (to the exclusion of all else including law and justice…) who knowingly contribute to mayhem and destruction in the name of a dollar. The willingness of America to interfere in the name of that dollar everywhere on this planet is one, if not THE principle source of much of the unrest this planet has witnessed for decades.
The greatest threat to world peace is the American attitude that you can provide butchers and madmen with weapons…as long as you can make a profit and get away with it…despite laws..(Nixon, Reagan) That you can interfere with electoral process anywhere where there might be the remotest chance that your puppet won’t achieve power… Haiti, Columbia, Venezuela) that you can turn a blind eye to genocide and terrorism when those instances serve your purpose but can then howl in moral outrage when your “enemy” does the same…
Why does anyone continue to believe that American administrations tell the truth?
You buy the line of American lies and wait a decade or ten until the truth comes out then you can celebrate the wisdom of your zeal for supporting a lying traitorous disingenuous and corrupt nation…the United States of America.
Thankfully for those right-wing zombies who embrace their American “friends”, we have Stephen Harper….a Canadian who’s almost corrupt and disingenuous enough to be an American.
How many millions of dead bodies strew around the planet in the name of American greed does it take to off-set the impression that because America contributes billions of dollars to struggling nations that these practices should just be ignored?
We have convincing evidence that there were U-boats in Chesepeke Bay (sorry if my spelling is incorrect) and the Gulf of St. Lawrence. We know that logistically the Japanese could have struck a major American city instead of the home of the Seventh Fleet in Pearl Harbor....
Which nation do you suppose has expended more ordinance, burned more gasoline, J2 etc. and devastated enormous numbers of the "enemies" civilian populations?
Yup shoor was a gud think droppin that A bom on Japan...
It gave us the arms race...it gave us the cold war....
You celebrate all you like....
I'll sit this little festival out....
Which nation do you suppose has expended more ordinance, burned more gasoline, J2 etc. and devastated enormous numbers of the "enemies" civilian populations?
Yup shoor was a gud think droppin that A bom on Japan...
It gave us the arms race...it gave us the cold war....
You celebrate all you like....
I'll sit this little festival out....
I never thought of it that way.
Get rid of United States and voila`, no more terrorism.
Remove United States and the rest of the world will no longer have a cover or an excuse
for any further mayhem.
It would be interesting to test that theory, eh ?
Get rid of United States and voila`, no more terrorism.
Remove United States and the rest of the world will no longer have a cover or an excuse
for any further mayhem.
It would be interesting to test that theory, eh ?
No Mr Moyer that's not the point...
No one believes (I hope) that any government doesn't have skeletons in its closet...that many governments don't lie to their people.
Asked for or not, the United States has the worlds largest military arsenal in terms of weaponry (haven't seen the Chinese arsenal). The United States has the greatest wealth of any nation on the planet and with that power and wealth comes enormous responsibility. If the Untied States simply "closed its doors" and stopped..frozen into imobility like some science fiction movie, the world would get on without it.
The question isn't whether the rest of the world is innocent of the same kinds of injustices that have been perpetrated by the United States but whether the people of the western hemisphere have any preparedness to acknowledge the history of injustice and violence that this nation has managed to accumulate in it's short two hundred year history as opposed to the thousand year old societies of Europe and other nations on this planet.
On balance Jim to you believe that the United States is less or more responsible for the current dynamic of international politics and policies than any other nation on the planet?
No one believes (I hope) that any government doesn't have skeletons in its closet...that many governments don't lie to their people.
Asked for or not, the United States has the worlds largest military arsenal in terms of weaponry (haven't seen the Chinese arsenal). The United States has the greatest wealth of any nation on the planet and with that power and wealth comes enormous responsibility. If the Untied States simply "closed its doors" and stopped..frozen into imobility like some science fiction movie, the world would get on without it.
The question isn't whether the rest of the world is innocent of the same kinds of injustices that have been perpetrated by the United States but whether the people of the western hemisphere have any preparedness to acknowledge the history of injustice and violence that this nation has managed to accumulate in it's short two hundred year history as opposed to the thousand year old societies of Europe and other nations on this planet.
On balance Jim to you believe that the United States is less or more responsible for the current dynamic of international politics and policies than any other nation on the planet?
That's pretty good Jimmy.
Of course, its in context. If someone is attacking me unprovoked, I ain't gonna try to negotiate with him first.
Yes we do. May I remind you that U-boats were German? Hence I fail to see your point. Headline History?
No, you don't know that and I challenge you to bring forth historical evidence to that effect. In 1942 there was some minimal fire bombing in Oregon, The Japaense had hoped to start forest fires that would spread into American cities. They also used high altitude balloons to get the same result. Both failed. Your logistics theory just went out the window.
Next time we should ask the enemy to be nice and not attack the US. Perhaps invite them over for tea and krumpets? I'm sure that would have worked better.
Yup, shoor was homie. Because I'm sure you are clueless to Imperial Japans aspirations in acquiring the atomic bomb. I suppose you would have felt better today if they had dropped one on Los Angeles? Sorry to dissapoint you.
What gave us the cold war and the arms race was the Socialist Cesspool otherwise known as the Soviet Union.
Will do.
That's good because your knowledge of history is beyond laughable.
ITN
Were the bombs in question not two different types?
Perhaps, they wanted to see what the effects would be from two different bombs?
I got that idea from the varying consperacy theories floated around through time. I think it sounds pretty fair.
Were the bombs in question not two different types?
Perhaps, they wanted to see what the effects would be from two different bombs?
I got that idea from the varying consperacy theories floated around through time. I think it sounds pretty fair.
ITN
I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours....
IF there had been an invasion and IF XY and Z happened just the way the "planners" behind OH say The Bay of Pigs or say the Iraq prophesy of children strewing flowers in the path of Americans come to "Free" the Iraqi people....or any other lies and fabrications that you're so convinced of the truth....
You people re-elected Bush now didn't you?
Plsease refresh my memory and tell us all about the Presidents speech aboard an aircraft carrier in California opening the festive celebrations marking the end of hostilities in Iraq...
I'm sure you believed that too.
I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours....
IF there had been an invasion and IF XY and Z happened just the way the "planners" behind OH say The Bay of Pigs or say the Iraq prophesy of children strewing flowers in the path of Americans come to "Free" the Iraqi people....or any other lies and fabrications that you're so convinced of the truth....
You people re-elected Bush now didn't you?
Plsease refresh my memory and tell us all about the Presidents speech aboard an aircraft carrier in California opening the festive celebrations marking the end of hostilities in Iraq...
I'm sure you believed that too.
One was plutonium and the other was uranium based. That's about all I know about it.
Let's see, what does this new rant of yours have to do with Pearl Harbor?
Hmmm...nothing.
I don't always champion "murder, war, mayhem and death", but, especially in the case we are discussing, violence is sometimes the last refuge of the very competent.
It has always been so. The history of western civilization shows the direction of the development of mankind is oft decided on the battle ground. Pivotal turning points are very often lakes of blood, but the necessity of such things is undeniable.
If the choice is freedom or slavery, who can walk away?
From the wars between militaristic Sparta and open Athens, to the battles between Rome and Carthage, to the early struggle against expansionist Islam, to the clashes of the Reformation, to the American War of Independence, the Napoleonic Wars, the Civil War, the Second World War, and that war by proxy, the Cold War, our future, our very existence as a society capable of advancement, has and IS decided by who field the best armed, the best trained, and the most motivated soldiers willing to kill and die for a cause.
As for the attack on Pearl Harbour, those war-mongering Americans had done their very best to stay isolationist, to keep out of the world's troubles.
I don't understand the logic in your arguments.
Avoid war.
Yes, Okay, but Japan is building a huge military........they are murdering hundreds of thousands in China, they are aggressive and expansionist.......so what to do?
Why, avoid war. Slap them with an embargo.
Do you think the Japs were using the oil and iron the Yanks restricted them from to build baby carriages and homes for the elderly?
No.
The Japanese appetite for raw materials skyrocketed because of their war machine. They needed steel to build Artillery, rifles, and bayonettes, the better to kill Chinese. They needed fuel to propel their battleships and tanks, to better enable them to become the dominant (monstrous) power in the Pacific.
So. Avoid war. Put an embargo on them.
And be attacked at Pearl Harbour.
And somehow, in your mind, that makes the AMERICANS war mongerers?
I don't get it.