Should Quebec separate from Canada?

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Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
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Das Kapital
Re: RE: Should Quebec separate from Canada?

Hamlet said:
The economics of Quebec is the big question.

If Quebec were to go it alone, one of the big unanswered questions is what happens to the existing treaties that were negotiated between Canada and the U.S.

Essentially, what this boils down to is this: does an independent Quebec inherit the financial benefits of NAFTA? My guess is that Canada would argue "no". Here's a quick example of why I think that.

Canada provides 30 or 35% of America's lumber needs. Of that, Quebec provides about 18%. Now, if at some point Quebec's standing in regards to NAFTA is in question, what do you think the other provinces and Ottawa are going to argue? They're going to want B.C. and Ontario to take up that 18%. This would be repeated in all industries. What Quebec loses would be Canada's gain.

I believe an independent Quebec would face a future similar to that of Russia. Initially, unemployment would be quite high--perhaps 20 to 35% unemployment. Immigration to Quebec would come to a standstill, and it's population would begin to drop. The economic disparity between Quebec and Canada would be staggering. But, after a decade or two, I think you'd see things start to turn around. Quebec would create it's own bi-national trade agreements and the anger that Canada might hold toward Quebec would probably begin to abate.

Canada would be looking out for what's in Canada's best interests, and what would be in Canada's best interests would be to dump as much national debt on Quebec's shoulders and take as much industry away from Quebec as possible. But rarely do political leaders want to address these kind of details.
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Yes, Quebec has a lot to lose going it alone. For example, as a national government, it could not use its provincial status in order to protect Quebec firms when bidding for contracts with Hydro-Quebec nor would they be able keep rules pertaining to such cultural (language) protections, such as distribution of english films in Quebec. Unless all members agreed, of course! :lol:

Also, membership in the World Trade Organization is required prior to entry into NAFTA and neither process would be automatic, easy or fast. WTO membership alone, would involve years of complicated discussions; and not to mention the fact that there are already 30 countries standing in line, for such talks. Plus any concessions granted at that stage of game, must be granted to all WTO members. :eek:

What a daunting process.
 
Z

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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If quebec really wants to seperate Im not willing to sit in a foxhole and shoot people so they will stay under my nations thumb, I wish them good luck and hope they really want it, as its not like we force anything upon them now.

They also must allow any groups who wish to stay in Canada to stay, such as the Innu. As I WOULD sit in a foxhole to keep fellow citizens from being forced from their country and ruled under a foriegn thumb against their wishes.
 
H

Hiro

New Member
Sep 2, 2006
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All Over
Interesting Debate.

I beleive it is not constitutional for Quebec to separate (yet). But, who cares. That is irrelevant. If a clear majority Quebecers want to separate then they can and there is nothing that the rest of Canada can do to stop them. 40% of our military is from Quebec.

But, really why would they want to separate? They would be losing a great deal of power, influence and independence if they did. Right now Quebec is more independent than any other province in Canada, and it is possibly more independent than Canada as a whole. By independence I mean that Quebec can do whatever Quebec wants on Quebec soil (within reason).

Think about it... Quebec has its own:

1. Immigration policy,
2. Taxation policy,
3. System of education,
4. and system of Law.

Quebec has broken the Canadian Charter of Rights and it can do it again. Right now, if Quebec wanted to have an army it could form and army. (There would be no way to stop them). Ottawa can simply suggest to Quebec. Quebec can simply refuse any demand Ottawa makes of them (It has in the past).

If Quebec left, they would actually have to answer to governments on a global scale and they would be held accountable for what they did. Now Quebec only has to answer to the rest of Canada, who they can dutifully ignore.
 
E

Explorer

New Member
May 15, 2006
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Gonzo said:
Quebec could use any currency it wanted to. It could still use Canadian dollars.
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Oh, you mean that new Unilingual English one, or will they insist the U.S. make theirs bilingual. :lol:

And I am sure they would want to move the Hydro dam farther South since they wouldnt want to lose it or the money from Newfoundland Hydro that they have been scamming for years.
 
T

turubawebmaster

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Oct 18, 2006
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James

I live in Ontario and I personally don't care what goes on in Quebec... In a way it would be better if Quebec seperates because Canada would be just English but to think of it we're the second largest country in the world so in that way it would hurt Canada... I am tired of hearing them wanting us to be billingual while they have French only.... Quebecers should mind their business abotu Ontarians... I also want to add that they shouldn't be aloud to work here since we're not aloud to work there.... Some people I know there are pretty nice actually but I think their politics are all snobs and they have some ridiculous laws.... Quebec is suppose to be English and French and I don't believe that French should be an official language in Canada.... Ontario is English and that's the way the ball bounces... I think we're better off having Quebec seperate sometimes for the better
 
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turubawebmaster

New Member
Oct 18, 2006
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James

I live in Ontario and I personally don't care what goes on in Quebec... In a way it would be better if Quebec seperates because Canada would be just English but to think of it we're the second largest country in the world so in that way it would hurt Canada... I am tired of hearing them wanting us to be billingual while they have French only.... Quebecers should mind their business abotu Ontarians... I also want to add that they shouldn't be aloud to work here since we're not aloud to work there.... Some people I know there are pretty nice actually but I think their politics are all snobs and they have some ridiculous laws.... Quebec is suppose to be English and French and I don't believe that French should be an official language in Canada.... Ontario is English and that's the way the ball bounces... I think we're better off having Quebec seperate sometimes for the better but I think about how the English in Montreal and those in Shawville and Lennoxville would feel if that would happen so it would be sad for them to end up in a french country... I just think Quebecers should stop the language law and live like us
I hate language police... I think they're all retarded
 
s_lone

s_lone

Council Member
Feb 16, 2005
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turubawebmaster said:
I also want to add that they shouldn't be aloud to work here since we're not aloud to work there....
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Do you know what you are talking about? There are people from outside Quebec working where I work. Last thing I know, is that Quebec is still part of Canada and that you don't need a special work permit to work in Quebec if you're Canadian.

Of course, people who don't speak a word of French will have a hard time getting a job in the francophone parts of Quebec. But that's kind of obvious isn't it? Would I find a job in Ontario if I didn't speak a word of English?
 
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Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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A point here:

People with money DO scream "Oh my god! these people have represented their wishes democratically and elected to seperate into a new nation! FLEE IN TERROR!"

Thats what they do in every single other country in existence. Unless Quebec has some magical pixie dust that prevents people from realizing its bad to invest in a country thats unstable.. (all new countries are unstable for a few months).

And once they leave, why would they go back? Trade Barriers, repressed minorities will start rioting (those who are "eroding quebec culture"), Native Unrest, political infighting..

Who knows what government inside a cut off Quebec may emerge from the first few months, My guess is the Hells Angels and other Organized crime (Strong in Quebec) wouldn't sit back and miss this opportunity to turn quebec into their playground.


When the cultural differences amount not even to poutine and crappy pop artists (Who we have everywhere else), whats their to seperate from? You speak french. Otherwise Quebec, the rest of Canada and the United States and most of europe are all part of modern culture. You look at our daily routines and they are all pretty much the same I'd bet.
 
earth_as_one

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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I'm glad a majority of Quebecois voted to remain in Canada. (slim as it was)

Quebecois know how to party! They are more open about sex. Montreal has some of the best restaurants and bars in Canada. I've found women in Quebec City are just a little prettier, more fashionable and friendlier than other major Canadian cities.

If it wasn't for Quebec, Canada would be even more dominated by the US than we are now. Canada would be in Iraq.

A tous mes amis du Québec, merci du choix pour rester au Canada!
 
Logic 7

Logic 7

Council Member
Jul 17, 2006
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Yes they should only for those reasons:


Cultural
Language
Economy
Mentality.
 
Sassylassie

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
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Durka, the economy ergo all those lovely Federal Jobs. Oh and Maple syrup, I bet that is a trillion dollar industry.
 
ottawabill

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
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Eastern Ontario
separation

I find it highly unlikely that quebec will ever officially seperate from Canada..their ongoing unoffical seperation works so well for them. They hardly have 1/4 of the population (maybe less?) but get the ear of government like they were the majority. Tons of money and jobs that would not have gone to Quebec if not for the Federal incentives. A a bilingual program making French official everywhere funded by the total population of the country.

The funny part is ..Quebec looks towards the U.S. for seperation support...a country that staunchly remains uniligual no matter who many Latinos live there. Do you really think the U.S. would support French in North America. With the small French population..and even smaller French only speaking population (maybe 4 million) how long do they think their language would last then?

My fear of seperation is a downward spiril for the rest of the country..how do you get to the east coast? what about western seperation?

But again as far as I am concerned they will not leave..they have a good thing going...
 
Sassylassie

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
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Yes Bill Quebec has it made in the shade, and when they want more than their share they scream "Seperate" and the Feds trip all over themselves giving Quebec what it wants. The East is tired of Quebec and it's never ending Whining, they are a spoiled over indulged Province. Leave good grief who would pay for all those special things unique to Quebec, like cheap child care paid for by all Canadians.
 
ottawabill

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
8
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Eastern Ontario
unfortunate

Unfortunately Sassie, we are all wrapped up with the stupid situation with no end. Taking up tons of money that could be much better spent across the whole nation instead of funneled to one area.

I for one have no problem with Quebec as a province, it's people, it's language or even culture..they likely add a nice balance to the dullness of the typical Canadian hahaha!! I even send my kids to french immersion school. Not because of some great Canadian patriotic nature but rather that I live not to far from Quebec therefore knowing French is an advantage for them to find work...You know market forces!!.like the old..French where number warrant policy!!

However this unfair advantage politics mixed in with veil threats and stupid old grey haired men yakking away about the gory of France in the 1640's drives me over the bend....
 
s_lone

s_lone

Council Member
Feb 16, 2005
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ottawabill said:
However this unfair advantage politics mixed in with veil threats and stupid old grey haired men yakking away about the gory of France in the 1640's drives me over the bend....
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This has got to be one of the silliest statement on Quebec nationalists/seperatists. France abandoned its colony. It just didn't consider it worth fighting for. French Canadians were actually forced to develop their own national identity much before English Canadians. Heck, you guys are still yackin' about the Queen for God's sake! You've got a really doubtful perspective of history if you think that 250 years after the conquest, French Canadians are still attached to and glorifying France.
 
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