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Taxslave2

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Aug 13, 2022
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Absolute bullshit.

They're already pushing trans adult medical care to be denied. So no, that's not true at all.



We're tax payers too.

Do we get to select which health care you as a non-trans person gets to have, and what you don't?



Good thing this isn't happening.

How many times must that be repeated for you to get that?



Seeing a surgeon for surgeries does not mean surgeries are done.

Educate yourself, FFS.
You need to see a shrink.
 
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Serryah

Hall of Fame Member
Dec 3, 2008
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From the NYT. . .
"The treatments: The law prohibits medical providers from prescribing puberty-delaying medication, offering hormone therapy or performing surgery to treat the psychological distress caused by incongruence between experienced gender and that assigned at birth."

Thank you for posting what the article said.

I now feel bad for kids who have Precocious puberty or other medical issues being denied their meds too with BS like this.

Of course I'm sure they'll be 'exempt' from any law denying meds or hormone therapy, in which case it'll be interesting to see how many law suits come out of it for discrimination or whatever can be used to fight it.
"However" indeed. This is a complicated and delicate issue. I get tired of commenters on this board yelling "FREEEEEEE-DOM!" and "T'ain't RAHT!" without any thought to the complex and delicate social balances behind just about every issue.

Good points really. And yeah, it's a complicated and delicate issue. It's why I am on the side of supporting kids and giving them time to figure things out.

But I also realize that the 'time' is limited; puberty, if it happens, can destroy a kid's life and their future if they're trans.

I also realize that it's not about kids at all, but about wiping trans people out of existence (as much as they can anyway).

That's what my post explained. What is "right" for a child is determined by a mix of the child, the child's parents/guardians, and the larger society within which the child lives.

I can agree with the first two; the last is the problem area though. On the one hand, you have people screaming about how a kid is 'their kid and they can do what they want with their kid' and on the other hand, those same people are dictating how other parents handle their kids.

Kind'a makes it harder to take some seriously.

What about them? Again, we see the interaction between the will of the minor, the will of the minor's parents/guardians, and the will of the society, as expressed through the elected legislature.

The issue comes when society is conflicted; so which part of society gets to decide?

Don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. it's a legal issue. There are criminal penalties for selling/providing alcohol to minors.

Oh it is here too, but I was trying to point out - which I didn't do clearly I think - is that sure it's a legal issue, but it's also a society issue since the age kids drink varies in Europe depending on the country they're from. The law stems from what is 'socially acceptable' so while in Canada it's 19, in other countries it's younger.

But I do get your point. Society chose these laws by election.

That is correct. And acceptable to me because it is "reversible" (that is, if a minor wants surgery/hormone therapy/other measures to change the minor's sex/gender, and the parents or the state forbid it, the minor need only wait).

This is where I can't agree with you fully - the state itself should have no say to ANYONE'S health care (and while I'm sure others would bring up Vaccinations those are a different situation with different circumstances, the biggest being diseases and vaccines affect everyone in society where as trans care affects only the person who is trans and maybe their family; maybe)

Waiting for trans care not only puts mental and emotional pressures on the trans kid but it negatively affects their adult lives as well. For a trans person that 'doesn't pass' as an adult, their lives are EXTREMELY difficult (and really this affects mostly trans women since trans guys tend to pass if they go full transition). It's not just the physical appearance, it's the threats of loss of life, liberty and happiness (which everyone has a right to, or used to have a right to) just by the fact they don't pass.

Which trans health care is meant to help alleviate.

It is unlikely that you and I will ever disagree on "control and misogyny." Add in "idiotic, hysterical fears about sex" and you've got the Trinity of Hysteria. This seems to me to be the most reasonable way to accommodate the competing interests.

For the most part I agree and will just leave it at that :)
 

spaminator

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Oct 26, 2009
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Only in Canada would government alter its national flag to promote wokeness
At a time when Prime Minister Mark Carney is promoting Canada again, a federal department changed the flag while in Ontario, Premier Doug Ford sent his own message by putting a giant proper maple leaf standard on the front of Queen's Park


Author of the article:Joe Warmington
Published Jun 25, 2025 • Last updated 1 day ago • 3 minute read

Canadian flag
The Canadian flag with rainbow colours was tweeted by the federal government account. Photo by @canada /X
Somebody should tell the government of Canada there is only one Canadian flag.


Perhaps Premier Doug Ford can make the call. He and his Ontario government got it right with their massive, traditional Canadian flag attached with help of cranes to Queen’s Park this week. That’s how you do that.


Canadian flag
The giant Canadian flag at Queen’s Park in Toronto. Toronto Sun
Maybe some inside the federal government need a lesson on what is a legal Canadian flag and what isn’t. Regulations say it should be red on each end, white in the middle with a red maple leaf. Yet, for some reason on the @canada X account with 1.1 million followers, a flag was posted with the red ends in rainbow colours which are synonymous with the Pride month of June.

But this doesn’t mention Pride. And Pride Toronto doesn’t seem to know anything about it. This was not them. It appears it was somebody within Global Affairs Canada.


“In Canada we know that diversity is our strength and we love to celebrate it!” it says. “This #BeingYouDay, let it be a reminder to be authentically yourself and celebrate all the things that make you, YOU!”

Being You Day? What in the world is that?



Well, click on the hashtag and it will take you to a site which explains “International Being You Day, on June 22, invites you to celebrate being … you. It’s time to ditch the self-judgment and have gratitude for yourself. Today we invite you to explore what it means to truly be YOU beyond the projections of society and the need for perfection. It’s your day to discover and acknowledge the beauty of you and your unique capabilities. It’s also an invitation to celebrate everyone’s differences.”

In this case it seems to celebrate desecrating Canada’s flag. When I was in Afghanistan, I certainly didn’t see the brave troops having alternative flags. They were proud of the one they were serving under.

Needless to say, many Canadians didn’t like this new version.


“I’m pretty sure the Canadian flag already represents this. They didn’t have to desecrate our flag,” said Ryan Gerritsen

William Vaughan Bedell wrote, “Hey @canada it is really inappropriate to deface the #MapleLeaf. It is incredible sad that the Gov’t of Canada has such a lack of respect for our national flag.”

So what does the @canada account run by the federal government have to say about it? They haven’t responded to requests for comment.

“Side note, they turned off their comments,” added Gerritsen.



Prime Minister Mark Carney — who has certainly shown his love for Canada’s traditions which included inviting the King for the throne speech and introducing the Canada Strong pass for the summer, plus by committing to rebuild Canada’s proud military — may have to call his bureaucrats since he has been trying to bring Canada back in vogue himself from the leftover Trudeau staffers who seemed to hate the country.

They didn’t appear to get the memo. Canada is back and Canada does not have varying versions of its flag.



Ford, meanwhile, has also been trying to signal this new time of patriotism – first by taking the wood covering away from Canada’s first prime minister, Sir John A. Macdonald, and with this cool, new flag.

“With Canada Day just around the corner, we’ve unveiled a giant Canadian flag to mark the occasion on the front of Queen’s Park,” Ford posted to X. “Let’s all come together to celebrate our incredible country: The true north, strong and free!”

Sure there’s big problems ahead and there should be debate on who’s responsible and how to fix it. But there is no question there’s still lots to celebrate.



The Score gets it. They pointed out on X how the last three major sports championships had a Canadian being named the most outstanding player.

“OH CANADA! For the first time in history, the reigning MLB, NBA and NHL MVPs in the Finals and Playoffs are all Canadian! Willie Mays World Series MVP: Freddie Freeman Bill Russell NBA Finals MVP: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander NHL Conn Smythe Trophy: Sam Bennett.”



In the case of Hamilton’s Gilgeous-Alexander, he wrapped himself in the proper Canadian flag when he celebrated with Oklahoma City Thunder fans at their parade. It’s nice to see because at many of the demonstrations in Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa, we often see flags from everywhere but Canada.



Proud Canadian superstar Shai Gilgeous-Alexander showed it’s not hard to display Canadian patriotism.

The Canadian flag is the Canadian flag. It’s iconic. Don’t change it. Don’t defile it. Celebrate it, as it is.

jwarmington@postmedia.com
GuDtTH4XkAAiq63-scaled-e1750872100803[1].jpg
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
116,987
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Only in Canada would government alter its national flag to promote wokeness
At a time when Prime Minister Mark Carney is promoting Canada again, a federal department changed the flag while in Ontario, Premier Doug Ford sent his own message by putting a giant proper maple leaf standard on the front of Queen's Park


Author of the article:Joe Warmington
Published Jun 25, 2025 • Last updated 1 day ago • 3 minute read

Canadian flag
The Canadian flag with rainbow colours was tweeted by the federal government account. Photo by @canada /X
Somebody should tell the government of Canada there is only one Canadian flag.


Perhaps Premier Doug Ford can make the call. He and his Ontario government got it right with their massive, traditional Canadian flag attached with help of cranes to Queen’s Park this week. That’s how you do that.


Canadian flag
The giant Canadian flag at Queen’s Park in Toronto. Toronto Sun
Maybe some inside the federal government need a lesson on what is a legal Canadian flag and what isn’t. Regulations say it should be red on each end, white in the middle with a red maple leaf. Yet, for some reason on the @canada X account with 1.1 million followers, a flag was posted with the red ends in rainbow colours which are synonymous with the Pride month of June.

But this doesn’t mention Pride. And Pride Toronto doesn’t seem to know anything about it. This was not them. It appears it was somebody within Global Affairs Canada.


“In Canada we know that diversity is our strength and we love to celebrate it!” it says. “This #BeingYouDay, let it be a reminder to be authentically yourself and celebrate all the things that make you, YOU!”

Being You Day? What in the world is that?



Well, click on the hashtag and it will take you to a site which explains “International Being You Day, on June 22, invites you to celebrate being … you. It’s time to ditch the self-judgment and have gratitude for yourself. Today we invite you to explore what it means to truly be YOU beyond the projections of society and the need for perfection. It’s your day to discover and acknowledge the beauty of you and your unique capabilities. It’s also an invitation to celebrate everyone’s differences.”

In this case it seems to celebrate desecrating Canada’s flag. When I was in Afghanistan, I certainly didn’t see the brave troops having alternative flags. They were proud of the one they were serving under.

Needless to say, many Canadians didn’t like this new version.


“I’m pretty sure the Canadian flag already represents this. They didn’t have to desecrate our flag,” said Ryan Gerritsen

William Vaughan Bedell wrote, “Hey @canada it is really inappropriate to deface the #MapleLeaf. It is incredible sad that the Gov’t of Canada has such a lack of respect for our national flag.”

So what does the @canada account run by the federal government have to say about it? They haven’t responded to requests for comment.

“Side note, they turned off their comments,” added Gerritsen.



Prime Minister Mark Carney — who has certainly shown his love for Canada’s traditions which included inviting the King for the throne speech and introducing the Canada Strong pass for the summer, plus by committing to rebuild Canada’s proud military — may have to call his bureaucrats since he has been trying to bring Canada back in vogue himself from the leftover Trudeau staffers who seemed to hate the country.

They didn’t appear to get the memo. Canada is back and Canada does not have varying versions of its flag.



Ford, meanwhile, has also been trying to signal this new time of patriotism – first by taking the wood covering away from Canada’s first prime minister, Sir John A. Macdonald, and with this cool, new flag.

“With Canada Day just around the corner, we’ve unveiled a giant Canadian flag to mark the occasion on the front of Queen’s Park,” Ford posted to X. “Let’s all come together to celebrate our incredible country: The true north, strong and free!”

Sure there’s big problems ahead and there should be debate on who’s responsible and how to fix it. But there is no question there’s still lots to celebrate.



The Score gets it. They pointed out on X how the last three major sports championships had a Canadian being named the most outstanding player.

“OH CANADA! For the first time in history, the reigning MLB, NBA and NHL MVPs in the Finals and Playoffs are all Canadian! Willie Mays World Series MVP: Freddie Freeman Bill Russell NBA Finals MVP: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander NHL Conn Smythe Trophy: Sam Bennett.”



In the case of Hamilton’s Gilgeous-Alexander, he wrapped himself in the proper Canadian flag when he celebrated with Oklahoma City Thunder fans at their parade. It’s nice to see because at many of the demonstrations in Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa, we often see flags from everywhere but Canada.



Proud Canadian superstar Shai Gilgeous-Alexander showed it’s not hard to display Canadian patriotism.

The Canadian flag is the Canadian flag. It’s iconic. Don’t change it. Don’t defile it. Celebrate it, as it is.

jwarmington@postmedia.com
View attachment 29808
God hates flags.
 

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
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Thank you for posting what the article said.

I now feel bad for kids who have Precocious puberty or other medical issues being denied their meds too with BS like this.

Of course I'm sure they'll be 'exempt' from any law denying meds or hormone therapy, in which case it'll be interesting to see how many law suits come out of it for discrimination or whatever can be used to fight it.


Good points really. And yeah, it's a complicated and delicate issue. It's why I am on the side of supporting kids and giving them time to figure things out.

But I also realize that the 'time' is limited; puberty, if it happens, can destroy a kid's life and their future if they're trans.

I also realize that it's not about kids at all, but about wiping trans people out of existence (as much as they can anyway).



I can agree with the first two; the last is the problem area though. On the one hand, you have people screaming about how a kid is 'their kid and they can do what they want with their kid' and on the other hand, those same people are dictating how other parents handle their kids.

Kind'a makes it harder to take some seriously.



The issue comes when society is conflicted; so which part of society gets to decide?



Oh it is here too, but I was trying to point out - which I didn't do clearly I think - is that sure it's a legal issue, but it's also a society issue since the age kids drink varies in Europe depending on the country they're from. The law stems from what is 'socially acceptable' so while in Canada it's 19, in other countries it's younger.

But I do get your point. Society chose these laws by election.



This is where I can't agree with you fully - the state itself should have no say to ANYONE'S health care (and while I'm sure others would bring up Vaccinations those are a different situation with different circumstances, the biggest being diseases and vaccines affect everyone in society where as trans care affects only the person who is trans and maybe their family; maybe)

Waiting for trans care not only puts mental and emotional pressures on the trans kid but it negatively affects their adult lives as well. For a trans person that 'doesn't pass' as an adult, their lives are EXTREMELY difficult (and really this affects mostly trans women since trans guys tend to pass if they go full transition). It's not just the physical appearance, it's the threats of loss of life, liberty and happiness (which everyone has a right to, or used to have a right to) just by the fact they don't pass.

Which trans health care is meant to help alleviate.



For the most part I agree and will just leave it at that :)
In a series of investigations in Europe, the findings are that once puberty is over, the dysphoria disappears which is why they no longer approve of mutilating children. They're leaving it until they're adults & can make their own decisions and, of course, they can pay for it themselves!! Gesh, some common sense!!
 

Taxslave2

House Member
Aug 13, 2022
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This is where I can't agree with you fully - the state itself should have no say to ANYONE'S health care (
What about holy rollers that refuse to let their kid have a life saving transfusion? If just 1 child I’d saved…
 

spaminator

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 26, 2009
38,680
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Only in Canada would government alter its national flag to promote wokeness
At a time when Prime Minister Mark Carney is promoting Canada again, a federal department changed the flag while in Ontario, Premier Doug Ford sent his own message by putting a giant proper maple leaf standard on the front of Queen's Park


Author of the article:Joe Warmington
Published Jun 25, 2025 • Last updated 1 day ago • 3 minute read

Canadian flag
The Canadian flag with rainbow colours was tweeted by the federal government account. Photo by @canada /X
Somebody should tell the government of Canada there is only one Canadian flag.


Perhaps Premier Doug Ford can make the call. He and his Ontario government got it right with their massive, traditional Canadian flag attached with help of cranes to Queen’s Park this week. That’s how you do that.


Canadian flag
The giant Canadian flag at Queen’s Park in Toronto. Toronto Sun
Maybe some inside the federal government need a lesson on what is a legal Canadian flag and what isn’t. Regulations say it should be red on each end, white in the middle with a red maple leaf. Yet, for some reason on the @canada X account with 1.1 million followers, a flag was posted with the red ends in rainbow colours which are synonymous with the Pride month of June.

But this doesn’t mention Pride. And Pride Toronto doesn’t seem to know anything about it. This was not them. It appears it was somebody within Global Affairs Canada.


“In Canada we know that diversity is our strength and we love to celebrate it!” it says. “This #BeingYouDay, let it be a reminder to be authentically yourself and celebrate all the things that make you, YOU!”

Being You Day? What in the world is that?



Well, click on the hashtag and it will take you to a site which explains “International Being You Day, on June 22, invites you to celebrate being … you. It’s time to ditch the self-judgment and have gratitude for yourself. Today we invite you to explore what it means to truly be YOU beyond the projections of society and the need for perfection. It’s your day to discover and acknowledge the beauty of you and your unique capabilities. It’s also an invitation to celebrate everyone’s differences.”

In this case it seems to celebrate desecrating Canada’s flag. When I was in Afghanistan, I certainly didn’t see the brave troops having alternative flags. They were proud of the one they were serving under.

Needless to say, many Canadians didn’t like this new version.


“I’m pretty sure the Canadian flag already represents this. They didn’t have to desecrate our flag,” said Ryan Gerritsen

William Vaughan Bedell wrote, “Hey @canada it is really inappropriate to deface the #MapleLeaf. It is incredible sad that the Gov’t of Canada has such a lack of respect for our national flag.”

So what does the @canada account run by the federal government have to say about it? They haven’t responded to requests for comment.

“Side note, they turned off their comments,” added Gerritsen.



Prime Minister Mark Carney — who has certainly shown his love for Canada’s traditions which included inviting the King for the throne speech and introducing the Canada Strong pass for the summer, plus by committing to rebuild Canada’s proud military — may have to call his bureaucrats since he has been trying to bring Canada back in vogue himself from the leftover Trudeau staffers who seemed to hate the country.

They didn’t appear to get the memo. Canada is back and Canada does not have varying versions of its flag.



Ford, meanwhile, has also been trying to signal this new time of patriotism – first by taking the wood covering away from Canada’s first prime minister, Sir John A. Macdonald, and with this cool, new flag.

“With Canada Day just around the corner, we’ve unveiled a giant Canadian flag to mark the occasion on the front of Queen’s Park,” Ford posted to X. “Let’s all come together to celebrate our incredible country: The true north, strong and free!”

Sure there’s big problems ahead and there should be debate on who’s responsible and how to fix it. But there is no question there’s still lots to celebrate.



The Score gets it. They pointed out on X how the last three major sports championships had a Canadian being named the most outstanding player.

“OH CANADA! For the first time in history, the reigning MLB, NBA and NHL MVPs in the Finals and Playoffs are all Canadian! Willie Mays World Series MVP: Freddie Freeman Bill Russell NBA Finals MVP: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander NHL Conn Smythe Trophy: Sam Bennett.”



In the case of Hamilton’s Gilgeous-Alexander, he wrapped himself in the proper Canadian flag when he celebrated with Oklahoma City Thunder fans at their parade. It’s nice to see because at many of the demonstrations in Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa, we often see flags from everywhere but Canada.



Proud Canadian superstar Shai Gilgeous-Alexander showed it’s not hard to display Canadian patriotism.

The Canadian flag is the Canadian flag. It’s iconic. Don’t change it. Don’t defile it. Celebrate it, as it is.

jwarmington@postmedia.com
View attachment 29808
1751079990099.png
 

Serryah

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Dec 3, 2008
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What about holy rollers that refuse to let their kid have a life saving transfusion? If just 1 child I’d saved…

You want my opinion on that? Sure.

Fuck their religion because this is the health care of the kid.

But then that's not the state being involved, that's Religion, a whole other issue (though when it comes to Religion, that's not the best excuse to use against health care either).
 
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Taxslave2

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What about them ? How many are there ?
How many JWs are there? SHould the court, or a tribunal be able to override their religious ban on transfusions? Some of these laws have implications beyond people that can't figure out if they have to stand or sit to pee.
 
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Taxslave2

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You want my opinion on that? Sure.

Fuck their religion because this is the health care of the kid.

But then that's not the state being involved, that's Religion, a whole other issue (though when it comes to Religion, that's not the best excuse to use against health care either).
But the state becomes involved when a JW kid needs a transfusion and the parents are refusing it. So who has ultimate power, the parent or the state?
 

Tecumsehsbones

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But the state becomes involved when a JW kid needs a transfusion and the parents are refusing it. So who has ultimate power, the parent or the state?
Do you mean ordinarily, or in the real world? In the real world, the answer is "either or both." In extreme circumstances, it's the state, cuz the state got the gunz.
 

Ron in Regina

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Apr 9, 2008
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“The evidence shows that singling out health care for gender diverse youth and making it subject to government control will cause irreparable harm to gender diverse youth by reinforcing the discrimination and prejudice they are already subjected to,” Kuntz wrote in the judgment.

Kuntz? Really?

The law, passed late last year but not fully in effect, would have prevented doctors from providing treatment such as puberty blockers and hormone therapy to those under 16.

Kuntz wrote that denying access to this care not only risks causing youth emotional harm but also exposes them to permanent physical changes that don’t match their gender identity.

Last month, the Canadian Medical Association and three Alberta-based doctors launched a legal case challenging the constitutionality of the bill, arguing it violates their Charter right to freedom of conscience.

Alberta’s other two pieces of transgender legislation — banning transgender women from competing in women’s sports and preventing youth under 16 from changing their name or pronouns in the school system without parental consent — have yet to be challenged in court.
 

Serryah

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But the state becomes involved when a JW kid needs a transfusion and the parents are refusing it. So who has ultimate power, the parent or the state?

Again, my opinion? It should be best interest of the kid and if that best interest for them is to give them a transfusion because without it they'll die, then you give the transfusion. But then I am also of the opinion that anyone who is JW who takes their kid to a hospital for anything that a kid has that leads to a transfusion, they are either wanting the transfusion to begin with, or they really are sadistically torturing their kid and looking to blame others when their kid dies from whatever issue because "no help was given", when it's them that's refusing the help.

As I said, religion is another issue - while I get what you're trying to go with in this idea but the two situations aren't the same, Tax. Religion is a choice, being trans is not. The only similarities are in both situations, the life of the kid is at risk and the parents may be fucking up a kid's life if the right decision isn't made.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Again, my opinion? It should be best interest of the kid and if that best interest for them is to give them a transfusion because without it they'll die, then you give the transfusion. But then I am also of the opinion that anyone who is JW who takes their kid to a hospital for anything that a kid has that leads to a transfusion, they are either wanting the transfusion to begin with, or they really are sadistically torturing their kid and looking to blame others when their kid dies from whatever issue because "no help was given", when it's them that's refusing the help.

As I said, religion is another issue - while I get what you're trying to go with in this idea but the two situations aren't the same, Tax. Religion is a choice, being trans is not. The only similarities are in both situations, the life of the kid is at risk and the parents may be fucking up a kid's life if the right decision isn't made.
You can talk a kid thru being trans until they're 18 but you can't talk your way through your kid surviving leukemia.
 
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