Our cooling world

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Why should I explain?--The paper is readily available on the interwebs and you can decide for yourself.

http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/pdf/1748-9326_8_2_024024.pdf

I'm not particualrly married to the 97% as the study was conducted by what I consider to be an advocacy group (skeptical science).

If you really want to blow their mind, show them the two other studies, that also found a roughly 97% support figure.

http://tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf
96.2 to 97.4 % of the egg heads in that study supported the anthropogenic cause.

Expert credibility in climate change
97-98% of the climate researchers most active in the field supported the anthropogenic cause.

Hmm, count abstracts, count scientists willing to state their opinion, no matter what you count, it seems to be about 97%. That's a funny coincidence! :lol:
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Hmm, count abstracts, count scientists willing to state their opinion, no matter what you count, it seems to be about 97%. That's a funny coincidence! :lol:




I don't find it "funny", as in amusing, at all. I do find it to be a "strange coincidence" though and I really don't like "coincidences" when it comes to science.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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If you really want to blow their mind, show them the two other studies, that also found a roughly 97% support figure.

http://tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf
96.2 to 97.4 % of the egg heads in that study supported the anthropogenic cause.

Expert credibility in climate change
97-98% of the climate researchers most active in the field supported the anthropogenic cause.

Hmm, count abstracts, count scientists willing to state their opinion, no matter what you count, it seems to be about 97%. That's a funny coincidence! :lol:

With a 30% response rate, it would be interesting to ask the 70% who decline why they decline.
 

Locutus

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Jun 18, 2007
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With a 30% response rate, it would be interesting to ask the 70% who decline why they decline.


This is where Ramsay asks the lonesome loser for their white (lab) jackets and to get out of Hell's Kitchen.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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It's a consensus. 70% of Scientists don't give a sh-t and can't be bothered by global warming nutters wasting their time with nonsense.
 

waldo

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Oct 19, 2009
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The statement you made, and waldo has made, and I have heard from many others is that 97% of the worlds scientist agree with AGW.
quit making shyte up!
I'm personally not too bothered with the number; some have it tagged as 97, some as 94, some as 91. But hey, still a consensus! And if only you actually knew what it meant!!!
agreed; as I stated, I'm not particularly bothered with an absolute labeled number... it still remains a consensus. But of what? Seems I can't get a one of these rubes to actually step up and define "the what" that they're just so having difficulty with!!!
As for what the "some percentage" number is, that number is usually tagged at the 90%+ level. The mad barking over "66% of 33%" is gold, real gold! :mrgreen:
I thank you for being man enough to supply what I asked for and not do the waldo waltz.

you repeatedly refused to state your understanding of the consensus, to provide your interpretation of what the consensus meant to you. Of course you refused, because you didn't have a clue what the actual consensus was... which didn't stop you from calling bullshyte on something you were clueless about. So instead you did YOUR DANCE! You speak of "Man enough"!!! You haven't the balls to admit you had no understanding of the actual consensus so, of course, you posture - that's what deniers, like you, do!

That being said, that is still a whole shyte load of scientific minds endorsing AGW compared to those that deny AGW considering the majority are unwilling to stick their collective necks out and take a stand one way or the other.

of course if all you're going to do is look at a qualifier of the consensus, scientific publication, there's a reason why many related papers don't take an official position... it's typically because it's inherent to the underlying science and/or positions are implied via paper references cited within the publications themselves. Of course, member Tonington said as much in the following prior post... I expect it sailed right over your comprehension capabilities!
Yes, definitely. Most papers wouldn't need to re-state a position on some topic, even though they're discussing the topic. Vaccines, take a survey of abstracts that include the word vaccine. There's a strong consensus in the medical field on the importance of vaccines, but not every paper is going to re-state that. If I develop a novel adjuvant, I talk about the adjuvant and the immune response it elicits, the safety of the substance, and probably the mechanisms involved. Mentioning the importance of vaccines in the past century adds nothing to the discussion, and my audience knows that anyways.

Among position papers in a keyword search, 97% responding in one way? That's a definite consensus.

This point isn't even worth arguing.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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I don't find it "funny", as in amusing, at all. I do find it to be a "strange coincidence" though and I really don't like "coincidences" when it comes to science.

If you measure something using different methods, and get the same finding as another researcher, in science that's called a robust finding. It means the outcome isn't dependent on your methodology. When you get multiple analyses showing the same thing, that's strong evidence in favour of the finding. That's how we use science to build knowledge gerry. It's how 'consensus' is arrived at. When the results point to the same thing.

With a 30% response rate, it would be interesting to ask the 70% who decline why they decline.

Maybe. Or it could be really boring, like they didn't have time. There's lots of reasons people don't respond, and lots of evidence that a 70% response rate compared to a 30% response rate doesn't improve the accuracy of the survey. See here, here, and here for examples.
 

Locutus

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Jun 18, 2007
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Waldo has the credibility of Brian Williams.....

the kid only has a few members that he sees anymore since he began running away to ignore-land. not sure who's left. he tries 'communicating' with me from time to time but he has a lot to learn in that department. I think he misses his old hand-held debating club bros back at the web. :lol:
 

waldo

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Oct 19, 2009
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the kid only has a few members that he sees anymore since he began running away to ignore-land. not sure who's left. he tries 'communicating' with me from time to time but he has a lot to learn in that department. I think he misses his old hand-held debating club bros back at the web. :lol:

you're quite confused Locutazz! Just a few posts back you said, "with half this place on ignore you're basically talking to yourself and the janitor." Since I have 3 members on IGNORE, I asked, "are there only 6 members here, Locutus?" Are you typically prone to this level of exaggeration you're displaying here? Do I complete you Locutazz... is that why you're stalking me?
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Maybe. Or it could be really boring, like they didn't have time. There's lots of reasons people don't respond, and lots of evidence that a 70% response rate compared to a 30% response rate doesn't improve the accuracy of the survey. See here, here, and here for examples.

30 emotionally invested %? Why would something allegedly life threatening requiring immediate action be boring? The survey was 3 questions taking seconds to reply. Nobody is THAT busy.

I'll stick to the 70% don't give a flying f-ck.
 

waldo

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is that from the same Heartland Institute "expert", Alan Caruba? Uhhh... the founder of the "National Anxiety Center"? Oh my!

 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Strange how in one thread I posted in a minute ago says to be afraid but that is just agenda driven propaganda then I come here to this thread and everyone claims it's doomsday and we should panic and there is no agenda driven propaganda.

WTF?
 

Locutus

Adorable Deplorable
Jun 18, 2007
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Great Lakes ice blowing away last year by close to 25% now. Stunning


warmest (___________) on record!
 

Locutus

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Jun 18, 2007
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New result shows CO2 has almost no effect on temperature

An article in the Daily Mail today piqued my interest. It trumpets empirical results which they say empirically confirm the theoretical CO2 greenhouse effect for the first time:



“Scientists have witnessed carbon dioxide trapping heat in the atmosphere above the United States, showing human-made climate change ‘in the wild’ for the first time.

A new study in the journal Nature demonstrates in real-time field measurements what scientists already knew from basic physics, lab tests, numerous simulations, temperature records and dozens of other climatic indicators.

They say it confirms the science of climate change and the amount of heat-trapping previously blamed on carbon dioxide.”

“These instruments, located at ARM research sites in Oklahoma and Alaska, measure thermal infrared energy that travels down through the atmosphere to the surface.

They can detect the unique spectral signature of infrared energy from CO2.

Other instruments at the two locations detect the unique signatures of phenomena that can also emit infrared energy, such as clouds and water vapor.

The result is two time-series from two very different locations. Each series spans from 2000 to the end of 2010, and includes 3300 measurements from Alaska and 8300 measurements from Oklahoma obtained on a near-daily basis.”



“Both series showed the same trend: atmospheric CO2 emitted an increasing amount of infrared energy, to the tune of 0.2 Watts per square meter per decade. This increase is about ten percent of the trend from all sources of infrared energy such as clouds and water vapor.”

Wow!. So so the amplification theory which says increasing CO2 will cause an increase in water vapour and raise temperatures must be true then, since that’s the only way greenhouse theorists can get increasing CO2 to do anything exciting. Lets take a look at state-wide temperature in Alaska, including the 2000-2011 period to empirically confirm this.


Oh. The temperature fell by around 4 degrees Centigrade during the 2000-2011 period! So maybe the trend from clouds and water vapour was a downward trend not an upward one? But if there was less longwave downward cloud radiative forcing, that would be because there was less cloud, which would mean there were more sunshine hours. That would have raised temperatures. On the other hand, if the reduced cloud were during winter, when the Sun is weak or absent, that would allow more outgoing longwave radiation to escape, causing surface cooling.

Either way, what the study shows, is that increasing CO2 has had very little effect on water vapour levels or near surface air temperature in Alaska, and is easily overcome by natural variability.

But then, CO2 is a ‘well mixed gas’ which spreads worldwide, and has been rising at a fairly steady rate for decades. So decadal periods when temperature went up or down can be cherry picked to support either argument. But what that reveals is that the whole ‘CO2 driven global warming’ period from 1975-2005 just happened to coincide with the positive phase of the ~60 year oceanic cycle. Until that oscillation is subtracted out from the longterm temperature trend, we shouldn’t trust any estimate of climate sensitivity.
Since there is an even longer term ~1000 yr oscillation evident in the proxy temperature record, running through the Minoan warm period, Halstatt disaster, Roman warm period, dark ages, Medieval warm period, little ice age and right up to the modern warm period, we should probably be wary of ascribing any upward temperature trend underlying the ~60 year oscillations to increases in trace gases in the atmosphere too.

Our simple solar system harmonic resonance model (yellow curve), which provides a potential explanation for these longer term oscillations, well reproduces changes in solar activity as reconstructed from the deposition of the 10Be solar proxy (blue curve), which itself seems to match this history of millennial up and downs in climatic conditions.




The CO2 driven climate theorists are completely unable to hindcast climatic change back thousands of years like this, so the challenge for them is to justify their certainty. MET Office scientist Richard Betts told me on twitter yesterday that they are only claiming that CO2 took over as the dominant climate forcing in recent decades. That sounds like special pleading for a failed theory to me.


https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2015/02/26/new-result-shows-co2-has-almost-no-effect-on-temperature/
 

waldo

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Oct 19, 2009
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New result shows CO2 has almost no effect on temperature

zounds Locutus! Denier blogger "tallbloke" has just given notice to the entire scientific community and world governments! Damn, "tallbloke" has just found the holy grail... the silver bullet... the AGW killer!

Locutus, are you hearing anything on when denier blogger "tallbloke" plans to formally challenge/publish? :mrgreen:


First Direct Observation of Carbon Dioxide’s Increasing Greenhouse Effect at the Earth’s Surface --- Researchers from the US Department of Energy’s Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) link rising CO2 levels from fossil fuels to an upward trend in radiative forcing at two locations

Observational determination of surface radiative forcing by CO2 from 2000 to 2010