Obama and Cuba

[EagleSmack]

China is communist in name only, while those in power in Cuba are the original revolutionaries who very much believe in communism.

China would have very different relations with America if it was still run by Mao Zedong after all.

Perhaps China is that nuveux (or however you spell it) type Communist country but it surely is Communist. So isn't Vietnam.

Those original revolutionaries are getting old just like Fidel is. Raul is no spring chicken! You figure that the average Cuban Revolutionary was about 20 years old and I am being generous there... they would now be in their 70s. Cuba will eventually come into the fold just as China and Vietnam did. Perhaps some of the originals will need to die off, and they will.

Correct me is I am wrong but wasn't it Nixon and Chairman Mao who opened the door to better relations...i.e... owning our butts.

 

[Colpy]

Perhaps China is that nuveux (or however you spell it) type Communist country but it surely is Communist. So isn't Vietnam.

Those original revolutionaries are getting old just like Fidel is. Raul is no spring chicken! You figure that the average Cuban Revolutionary was about 20 years old and I am being generous there... they would now be in their 70s. Cuba will eventually come into the fold just as China and Vietnam did. Perhaps some of the originals will need to die off, and they will.

Correct me is I am wrong but wasn't it Nixon and Chairman Mao who opened the door to better relations...i.e... owning our butts.

Absolutely!

The Cubans were not (as you pointed out before) ideologues, but nationalists.....much like Ho in Vietnam. Communism simply became the easiest route to go, in Vietnam because of extreme poverty and the USA support for France after WWII, and in Cuba because of the extensive holdings of American companies in a poverty-stricken country........the USA would not stand for land reform, and the Cubans were shoved into the arms of the USSR. A gentle shove, but still a shove.

Cuba will return to the fold.

Slowly.

 

[lone wolf]

I think you are more concerned with American Tourists flooding the island.

And they will Zzarch... they will indeed.

If I may?... I can't see where American tourist trade is a bad thing for Cuba and I'm pretty sure Cubans will welcome them - and (especially) their bucks. Tourists are big business up here in God's Country. There are obnoxious people in every crowd. It's the Americanization of Cuba that starts ill will in traditionalist people. Where the trouble really comes is when American business sets standards and prices only Americans can afford. All of a sudden, the locals get left behind.

 

[EagleSmack]

If I may?... I can't see where American tourist trade is a bad thing for Cuba and I'm pretty sure Cubans will welcome them - and (especially) their bucks. Tourists are big business up here in God's Country. There are obnoxious people in every crowd. It's the Americanization of Cuba that starts ill will in traditionalist people. Where the trouble really comes is when American business sets standards and prices only Americans can afford. All of a sudden, the locals get left behind.

Always welcome Wolf!

The tourist thing is me having fun with my Canadian bretheren. You must admit, the Canada-Cuban vacation thing is one of those things that some Canadians like to bring up. A Canadian can't go anywhere in the Carribean w/o running into an American... except Cuba. It was (and still is for now) exclusivly theirs to enjoy.

I remember years ago having it out the the ol' Rev. Blair and that was a thing he loved to point out.

Now... aren't the tourist section of Cuba somewhat separated from the locals as it is? I do not know. I would imagine that Canadians can drive up the prices as well. Is that true?

I believe the price thing will be a factor at the outset. Do you remember when the Soviet Union collapsed? The people were dirt poor when they came into the market. Now they are doing pretty darn good.

 

[lone wolf]

Always welcome Wolf!

The tourist thing is me having fun with my Canadian bretheren. You must admit, the Canada-Cuban vacation thing is one of those things that some Canadians like to bring up. A Canadian can't go anywhere in the Carribean w/o running into an American... except Cuba. It was (and still is for now) exclusivly theirs to enjoy.

I remember years ago having it out the the ol' Rev. Blair and that was a thing he loved to point out.

Now... aren't the tourist section of Cuba somewhat separated from the locals as it is? I do not know. I would imagine that Canadians can drive up the prices as well. Is that true?

I believe the price thing will be a factor at the outset. Do you remember when the Soviet Union collapsed? The people were dirt poor when they came into the market. Now they are doing pretty darn good.

How many Canadian industries are there in Cuba? You're looking at the tourist trade. I'm thinking of American big business and it's tendency to plunder resources to enrich business owners. Call it United Fruit, Weyerhauser or Standard Oil ... they come. They create a standard of living unheard of in the past. They make people dependent on them. When the money is gone, they go and leave dependent communities behind. Like I said: Tourists are always welcome....

 

[Zzarchov]

Perhaps China is that nuveux (or however you spell it) type Communist country but it surely is Communist.

Is it though ? Private property ownership, giant corporations, millionaires living large overshadowed by the slums of the working poor. No health care, no free education.

Other than the name of the ruling dictators being "the communist party", what exactly is it about China thats communist?

 

[EagleSmack]

How many Canadian industries are there in Cuba? You're looking at the tourist trade. I'm thinking of American big business and it's tendency to plunder resources to enrich business owners. Call it United Fruit, Weyerhauser or Standard Oil ... they come. They create a standard of living unheard of in the past. They make people dependent on them. When the money is gone, they go and leave dependent communities behind. Like I said: Tourists are always welcome....

Well that is where Cuba may lose if the government allows that to happen as you say. But there has to be some concessions. Perhaps limited industries would be open to the free market, tourism would open and they would protect the others.

 

[EagleSmack]

Is it though ? Private property ownership, giant corporations, millionaires living large overshadowed by the slums of the working poor. No health care, no free education.

Other than the name of the ruling dictators being "the communist party", what exactly is it about China thats communist?

Without me going online to check about what remains as Communist I don't know. Big Red flags? Big Parades on May Day? I still know that there are forces within China that get the smackdown from the Cinese Govt. from time to time.

But Communism itself was never really defined. Communist China was not like Communist Russia. Communist North Korea was defined my Kim Il Jong. He determined what was communism during his rule. Communist Vietnam and the Communist Khmer Rouge went to war at one point. I am sure that Catros Revolution was different from the others as well.

 

[Zzarchov]

Without me going online to check about what remains as Communist I don't know. Big Red flags? Big Parades on May Day? I still know that there are forces within China that get the smackdown from the Cinese Govt. from time to time.

But Communism itself was never really defined. Communist China was not like Communist Russia. Communist North Korea was defined my Kim Il Jong. He determined what was communism during his rule. Communist Vietnam and the Communist Khmer Rouge went to war at one point. I am sure that Catros Revolution was different from the others as well.

They all had alot of more unified ideals. Stalinist, Lenninist and Maoist communism. China went through a bit of a purge and killed the Maoists (who recently have set up control in Nepal).

Modern China isn't truly communist, and they acknowledge it. They just know communism is a bad idea. Its just a name, like how many dictatorship parties have names like "The Democratic Movement for Freedom" when they are anything but.

 

[EagleSmack]

They all had alot of more unified ideals. Stalinist, Lenninist and Maoist communism. China went through a bit of a purge and killed the Maoists (who recently have set up control in Nepal).

Modern China isn't truly communist, and they acknowledge it. They just know communism is a bad idea. Its just a name, like how many dictatorship parties have names like "The Democratic Movement for Freedom" when they are anything but.

Well what if Cubans come to the same conclusion? Whoa boy... there are going to be some POed lefties for sure.

 

[Zzarchov]

Well what if Cubans come to the same conclusion? Whoa boy... there are going to be some POed lefties for sure.

Well Cuba's doing pretty good as communist in many ways, great doctors and education. Still too much support for communism's successes in Cuba.

People have seen the failures in America's health system and seen what happened in nations that went from Communist to Capitalist poorly (Russia) and even just what happens to the masses if its not done well (China).

And I know your a patriot, but don't get defensive over your ****ty healthcare system. No nation is perfect or you'd still have the same social net as the 1780's with private firefighters and police if you were.

 

[gopher]

Time to revisit an oldie - this thread is now very timely in view of the headlines.

BRAVO TO OBAMA!

 

[Walter]

Last week BHO said it was terrible how the US "tortured" prisoners. US ain't got nuthin compared to Cuba in that area.

 

[bill barilko]

How much do you think the Castro brothers settled for?

How many millions each?

 

[damngrumpy]

Talk about fortitude these people kept their dream alive even in the face of American
pressure. Cuba was a country that was mostly illiterate when Castro came to power
now they have citizens who can read and write and have access to medical care and
education. Yes there is poverty but that was brought on by sanctions and they will go.
The people will not give up medicare and education. Wouldn't it be funny to see these
folks playing host to better middle class medical care in Cuba? I don't think the old
Cuban crowd from Florida will be allowed to come back and take up the old ways again.
Cuba will not be no holes barred as it were

 

[gopher]

there is no question that Cuba has been changing under Raul Castro:

This Is What Cuba Really Looks Like These Days | Mother Jones



new changes in political diplomacy will accelerate the changes and USA farmers will benefit as well:



South Dakota farmers to benefit from eased relations with Cuba



South Dakota cattle, sheep and hog producers will prosper from better relations with the communist nation. Farm and ranch groups said the move to expand trade with Cuba was long overdue.

“The embargo against Cuba had been going on longer than 40 years with little to show for it,” said Doug Sombke, president of the South Dakota Farmers Union. “It’s time to make changes that will not only help the people of Cuba, but will also open new markets for family farmers here in South Dakota and across the United States, who are always interested in new trade opportunities.”





everyone benefits from all this

 

[bill barilko]

Cuba will not be no holes barred.....

Prostitution is still widespread Yes.

 

[EagleSmack]

I was rocking and rolling back there!

How much do you think the Castro brothers settled for?

How many millions each?

The Castro Bros. and their regime will get it all. Every cent. Nothing will really change.

Actually... nothing has changed. There is still an embargo. I am sure Obama wanted to look even more of a limp wrist than he is but the law would not allow him to capitulate fully to Cuba.

I don't think the old
Cuban crowd from Florida will be allowed to come back and take up the old ways again.
Cuba will not be no holes barred as it were

You aren't right about many things DG... I don't see any reason you should start changing.

 

[darkbeaver]

Russia Quietly Struck A Deal to Re-Opening Military Base In Cuba!

​

 

[B00Mer]

Obama running for President in 2016!!

Of Cuba.