How many NATO member nations can you name without looking it up?

tay

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May 20, 2012
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This isn't a game.


It's important, deadly serious, because Canada is obliged to go to war to defend them if and when they're eventually attacked.


I won't give you all the Countries right now because that would spoil it for you. Just sit there and think about how many you can name.




But let's think about what Harper has planned, And don't forget 'you broke it, you bought it'.




Of course, some already knew it was folly, back in 2003. Stephen Harper, however, was not one of them.........






In March 2003, Stephen Harper and Stockwell Day wrote an editorial for the Wall Street Journal. With the onset of the Iraq war, their letter addressed America with the words, "Canadians Stand With You."


"Today, the world is at war," they wrote. "A coalition of countries under the leadership of the U.K. and the U.S. is leading a military intervention to disarm Saddam Hussein. Yet Prime Minister Jean Chretien has left Canada outside this multilateral coalition of nations.

This is a serious mistake."

For the first time in history, the Canadian government has not stood beside its key British and American allies in their time of need. The Canadian Alliance -- the official opposition in parliament -- supports the American and British position because we share their concerns, their worries about the future if Iraq is left unattended to, and their fundamental vision of civilization and human values.

Disarming Iraq is necessary for the long-term security of the world, and for the collective interests of our key historic allies and therefore manifestly in the national interest of Canada. Make no mistake, as our allies work to end the reign of Saddam and the brutality and aggression that are the foundations of his regime, Canada's largest opposition party, the Canadian Alliance will not be neutral. In our hearts and minds, we will be with our allies and friends. And Canadians will be overwhelmingly with us.

But we will not be with the Canadian government.

Modern Canada was forged in large part by war -- not because it was easy but because it was right. In the great wars of the last century -- against authoritarianism, fascism, and communism -- Canada did not merely stand with the Americans, more often than not we led the way. We did so for freedom, for democracy, for civilization itself. These values continue to be embodied in our allies and their leaders, and scorned by the forces of evil, including Saddam Hussein and the perpetrators of the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. That is why we will stand -- and I believe most Canadians will stand with us -- for these higher values which shaped our past, and which we will need in an uncertain future.
Messrs. Harper and Day are the leader and shadow foreign minister, respectively, of the Canadian Alliance.


Conservative Canadians Speak Out!






But, to his credit, it only took Stephen Harper 21 months for him to see the light and recant...........






"On Iraq... I would not commit Canadian troops to that country. I must admit great disappointment at the failure to substantiate pre-war intelligence information regarding Iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction."

Regardless of whether one agrees with the occupation of Afghanistan, it was to the Americans' great benefit that Canada had their back in Afghanistan. But, as we see today, it would have been utter folly for Canada to join America's invasion of Iraq.

http://www.vcn.bc.ca/~dastow/harper-wtimes.txt






"Speaking to reporters at the NATO summit on Friday, Harper condemned the "barbaric acts" of ISIS, the jihadist group behind recent beheadings of American journalists."Harper offered no comment on the 19 beheadings committed by our ally Saudi Arabia last month - some of them for "sorcery and witchcraft" - presumably because Canada has "two contracts totalling $14.8-billion awarded to General Dynamics Land Systems Canada of London, Ontario for the 2013-14 fiscal year to supply Saudi Arabia with military armoured vehicles."




Harper commits Canadians to Iraq




A small deployment of 100 "special ops" at first to be sure, but still a significant addition to the ongoing campaign to fund and arm the Mujihadeen, al Qaeda, Al Nusra, ISIS/ISIL/Islamic State, and whoever comes after them next. Blowback. It's a never-ending job.






Worse, the western intervention in Syria produced what is known in the intelligence business as “blowback”- in this case the Mother of all blowback.


The Syrian jihadist supported by the western powers and, for some baffling reason, Turkey, ran amok. A previously unknown band of gunmen known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant were trained and armed in Jordan by CIA, then turned lose on Syria.


ISIL became ISIS, then the by now notorious Islamic State(IS) which has been rampaging across northern and central Iraq. What makes IS so effective is that the major portion of its leaders and soldiers are veterans of President Saddam Hussein’s army, notably the Republican Guard. With IS is the last surviving Saddam insider, Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri.


When the US first invaded Iraq, Saddam predicted it would face the “Mother of all battles.” Westerners laughed. Eleven years later, the laughter has been silenced. Iraq continues to fight on and it is no longer safe for foreign oil companies. Saddam’s revenge.


The Islamic State is the perfect example of Nietzche’s over-used maxim, “what does not kill us makes us stronger.” It has risen from the ruins of Iraq and Syria to challenge the American Raj.


“Light” bombing by the US in Iraq won’t stop the IS. Pentagon chiefs now say US air power and special forces must go into Syria. This is standard Obama procedure: inching forward and launching trial balloons to test public opinion. But it’s clear the American public does not want new wars no matter what the pro-war media and bought Congress may say.




THE MOTHER OF ALL BLOWBACK « Eric Margolis
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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Now we have that,lil ol git outa jail card within Article 5
http://www.nato.int/docu/review/2006/issue2/english/art1.html
Article 5
The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area. Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.
 

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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It's important, deadly serious, because Canada is obliged to go to war to defend them if and when they're eventually attacked.
NATO sees an attack on one or more NATO members as an attack on EVERY NATO member. It's in NATO's charter. Every NATO member is obliged to come to the aid of any other NATO member should it be attacked.

Although, with Canada's defence spending, as a proportion of national wealth, almost the lowest of all NATO members I'm not sure what, if anything, Canada could do miltarily.

 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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NATO sees an attack on one or more NATO members as an attack on EVERY NATO member. It's in NATO's charter. Every NATO member is obliged to come to the aid of any other NATO member should it be attacked.

Although, with Canada's defence spending, as a proportion of national wealth, almost the lowest of all NATO members I'm not sure what, if anything, Canada could do miltarily.


Well we would hire you and send you off to win the war. You of course would be a Hero.
 

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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Well we would hire you and send you off to win the war. You of course would be a Hero.


If WWIII broke out tomorrow I'd be one of the first nipping to the local armed forces recruitment centre for a second stint in Her Majesty's Armed Forces.
 

gopher

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Jun 26, 2005
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- cannon fodder -





You know how I feel - the USA should GTFO of NATO. What goes on in Europe or the Middle East (which isn't anywhere near the North Atlantic) is of no consequence to us. There are far more important matters such as a decaying infrastructure, police violence, street violence, and other issues that need to be dealt with before we play god or anything like that overseas. I imagine there are people in Canada who feel that way about its government as well.

The USA, Canada, & the UK have about as much right to walk into Iraq and taking what doesn't belong to them as the cops or FBI has of walking into your home, taking what isn't theirs and telling you they are there for your good.



Re cannon fodder, that's only one of the consequences, not its true motivation which is war profiteering. Said before and will say again - take all the profit out of war and nobody will be calling for more intervention overseas.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
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Nato is looking for relevance but it should not be shut down. Nato could serve us
well if the Russians come over the top as it were. You can't have a defense pact
if its optional that just wouldn't cut it
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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NATO's garbage. should be disbanded.
it's just a tool of the u.s

Accidental greenie.

You're an idiot.

Should be disbanded.

You're simply a tool.

- cannon fodder -





You know how I feel - the USA should GTFO of NATO. What goes on in Europe or the Middle East (which isn't anywhere near the North Atlantic) is of no consequence to us. There are far more important matters such as a decaying infrastructure, police violence, street violence, and other issues that need to be dealt with before we play god or anything like that overseas. I imagine there are people in Canada who feel that way about its government as well.

The USA, Canada, & the UK have about as much right to walk into Iraq and taking what doesn't belong to them as the cops or FBI has of walking into your home, taking what isn't theirs and telling you they are there for your good.



Re cannon fodder, that's only one of the consequences, not its true motivation which is war profiteering. Said before and will say again - take all the profit out of war and nobody will be calling for more intervention overseas.

Here is a bulletin for you:

IT IS NO LONGER 1780.

The world is a very small place.

What happens in Europe or the ME WILL arrive on your doorstep sooner or later.

Probably sooner.
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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How many NATO Member Nations can you name without looking it up?



Belgium
Bulgaria
Canada
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Turkey
United Kingdom
United States
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
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Regina, SK
Belgium
Bulgaria
Canada
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Turkey
United Kingdom
United States​
...And note how many of them used to be client states of the old Soviet Union. Pretty close to half of them, despite undertakings by NATO when the USSR collapsed that it would not try to capture them as members. And with Ukraine making noises about NATO membership a while back... well, ya gotta understand that the mainspring of the former USSR's and now Russia's foreign policy was and is paranoia about Western intentions, and when you see that you'll understand Putin's meretricious belligerence in the Crimea and eastern Ukraine. Especially if you know that Putin is an old Soviet-era KGB thug who spent much of his professional career in that context in what was then East Germany with the uniquely repressive and paranoid secret police there, and wants to see Russia restored to what he thinks is its rightful place as a global power. And there's not much he won't do to get there. I think he's a dangerously crazy man.
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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...And note how many of them used to be client states of the old Soviet Union. Pretty close to half of them, despite undertakings by NATO when the USSR collapsed that it would not try to capture them as members. And with Ukraine making noises about NATO membership a while back... well, ya gotta understand that the mainspring of the former USSR's and now Russia's foreign policy was and is paranoia about Western intentions, and when you see that you'll understand Putin's meretricious belligerence in the Crimea and eastern Ukraine. Especially if you know that Putin is an old Soviet-era KGB thug who spent much of his professional career in that context in what was then East Germany with the uniquely repressive and paranoid secret police there, and wants to see Russia restored to what he thinks is its rightful place as a global power. And there's not much he won't do to get there. I think he's a dangerously crazy man.


Well, I managed 12 all correct, but I don't think that proves too much! -:)
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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If WWIII broke out tomorrow I'd be one of the first nipping to the local armed forces recruitment centre for a second stint in Her Majesty's Armed Forces.
That is because nobody else will be allowed into the soup kitchens. Do you really thing there would still be a war going on after you polished your shoes?
 

BaalsTears

Senate Member
Jan 25, 2011
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Clinton and Bush both expanded NATO eastward after the end of the Cold War. In retrospect the expansions were an unnecessary provocation which stoked Russia's well known paranoia.