Follow-Up on US-Canada Merger Discussion
- Thread starter NorthAmerican
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Not a chance in hell would people let this happen. I would never go along with being
an American or a hybrid something else.
And we are not one in the same either despite people wanting that to be so
an American or a hybrid something else.
And we are not one in the same either despite people wanting that to be so
And you'd be forced to admit how conservative ya'll really are!
Heck... you think you're a liberal!
Let's break this down a bit:
The US brings the labour (note the spelling difference
)Just as the US is complaining about lack of jobs, Canada is also struggling to make sure every Citizen has an adequately paying job. We don't need Americans tak'n er Jerbs!
As for investment into new businesses and enterprises, Canada is doing just fine not just with itself but with getting foreign investors on board with numerous business avenues. The Benefit of having Canada as its own nation is that we can regulate and properly oversee any business practices that may harm the employment rights of Canadians, as well as environmental practices. A few US business proposals were recently rejected due to these type of concerns.
The US brings technology
Do you think we live in igloos & ride moose? Canada brings technology too. Just as the US has invented a number of things over the years, so too has Canada. But what do I know, I'm typing all of this on a modified C64 with 28.8k dialup.
The US brings defense guarantees
Considering Canada is a part of NATO and the Commonwealth, has not had any direct military threats to its borders since WWII (German U-Boats) and before that, 1812, has thwarted every known attempted terrorist attack since 9/11 and has some of the world's up-to-date/modern weaponry (with a few exceptions) and some of the best trained soldiers and more advanced integration between the regular forces and the reserves..... those defence guarantees are not required at this time.
Able to exploit Canada's resources in a way that benefits Canada?
Somehow I highly doubt that.
I think Canada should Annex the USA. After all United States of America is a very wierd name for a country. After all, the United Provinces renamed to Netherlands (Low Countries), and the United States of Central America broke up. USA cannot exist with such a name! They must be annexed and called Canadians!
Canadians for annexation.. and growing with the younger generation..
Canadians literally only define themselves in opposition with the US.
Tim Horton's is awesome because it's better than Dunkin' Donuts
Canadian Healthcare is awesome because it's better than the US healthcare system.
Canada is awesome because it provided shelter to afro-american slaves
Monarchy is awesome because it prevents abuse of power
Etc. etc.
It does not matter that Americans and Canadians are actually pretty similar
(at least to an European). The whole Canadian identity is built through opposition with the US.
Canadians for annexation.. and growing with the younger generation..
Canadians literally only define themselves in opposition with the US.
Tim Horton's is awesome because it's better than Dunkin' Donuts
Canadian Healthcare is awesome because it's better than the US healthcare system.
Canada is awesome because it provided shelter to afro-american slaves
Monarchy is awesome because it prevents abuse of power
Etc. etc.
It does not matter that Americans and Canadians are actually pretty similar
(at least to an European). The whole Canadian identity is built through opposition with the US.
Here, I'll try and present another argument "For" the joining of both nations.... just to keep the pot stirring:
Why the U.S. Should Merge With Canada - Diane Francis - POLITICO Magazine
The United States and Canada are far more integrated than most people think. In fact, a merger between the two countries isn’t just desirable—it’s inevitable.
We share more than just the world’s longest border. We share the same values, lifestyles and aspirations. Our societies and economies are becoming similar in significant ways.
In 1966, I emigrated from the United States to Canada as a young woman. In the nearly 50 years since then, I’ve have seen Canada become more like America and America become more like Canada.
Canada used to be controlled by a few families, banks and conglomerates. It’s now a more dynamic, multicultural country powered by free enterprise. At the same time, the United States has become more progressive on issues like civil rights, women’s rights, gay rights and, yes, universal health care.
Canadians and Americans are so indistinguishable to the rest of the world that some Canadians put maple-leaf flags on their lapels or backpacks so as not to be mistaken for Americans. That’s easy enough to do, as we tend to marry, study, date, play, work, invest and travel alike.
Put together, the United States and Canada would be a colossus, with an economy larger than the European Union’s—larger, in fact, than those of China, Taiwan, Japan and South Korea combined. We would control more oil, water, arable land and resources than any jurisdiction on Earth, all protected by the world’s most powerful military.
Far-fetched? Maybe. But consider this: Two Canadian prime ministers – one after the First World War and another after the Second World War – seriously considered proposing a merger with the United States. They did not proceed for political reasons.
In the 1970s, Canadian tycoon E.P. Taylor, famed for his thoroughbred race horses, told a biographer: “If it weren’t for the racial issue in the U.S. and the political problems [Vietnam] they have, I would think that the two countries could come together … I’m against the trend of trying to reduce American ownership in Canadian companies. I think nature has to take its course.”
Since then, “nature” has been taking its course, in both directions. Three million, out of 35 million, Canadians live full or part time in the United States. Most retire in Sunbelt states, but there are an estimated 250,000 Canadians working in Los Angeles, another 250,000 in Silicon Valley and an estimated 400,000 per day work in Manhattan. This doesn’t include the million or so Canadians who became U.S. citizens before 1976, before dual citizenship was allowed.
This north-south brain drain has been constant throughout Canada’s history. In 1900, Canada’s population was only 5.37 million people, and by 2000 seven million had immigrated to the United States. Millions of Americans have Canadian roots – including well-known figures like Ellen DeGeneres, Alec Baldwin, Vince Vaughn, Madonna, Angelina Jolie, Hillary Clinton, Sarah Palin, Jack Kerouac, Walt Disney, Walter Chrysler and Thomas Edison.
The flow of people has also drifted northward. More than 1 million Americans, like me, live in Canada, and our offspring, even if born in Canada, are entitled to U.S. citizenship. In addition, Canada’s 800,000 aboriginals, known as “First Nations,” are effectively American citizens by virtue of the 1794 Jay Treaty.
Economically, the countries are one another’s biggest investors, customers and suppliers. Canada ships more oil to the United States than any other country, roughly 2.5 million barrels a day (out of the total consumed of 19.4 million barrels daily) and is an important source of electrical power, uranium, metals, minerals, natural gas and automobiles. In return, Canadians buy more U.S. products than does the entire EU.
U.S. corporations own roughly 12 percent of Canada’s corporate assets, roughly half of its oil industry and most of its manufacturing. U.S. retail chains garner 60 percent of all retail dollars spent by Canadians at home. Canadian corporations are the third biggest investors in the United States, and Canadian foreign direct investment levels in the U.S. nearly match the amount invested by Americans in Canada. Since 2008, individual Canadians have been the largest buyers of real estate in the United States among foreign buyers, or 25 percent of the total.
Given all this intermingling, why bother with a formal merger?
Page two can be found in the above link....
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COUNTER ARGUMENT:
No, Canada and the U.S. should not merge, eh?
Every decade or so, someone who knows little about history and culture proposes that Canada and the United States should merge into a single political entity. The most recent iteration of this is Diane Francis’ essay in the Wall Street Journal.
What, pray tell, is her base argument? This is clearly stated early on in the piece:
"Such a merger makes perfect sense. No two countries on Earth are as socially and economically integrated as the U.S. and Canada. They share geography, values and a gigantic border. Their populations study, travel and do business together and intermarry in great numbers. If they were corporations (or European states), they would have merged a long time ago. And each has what the other needs: The U.S. has capital, manpower, technology and the world’s strongest military; Canada has vast reserves of undeveloped resources."
Well, let’s just take a look at each of these points and see what an actual analysis would give us.
“No two countries on Earth are as socially and economically integrated as the U.S. and Canada.” Quite correct and, given her premise, quite surprising in that we are not the same country. It is also irrelevant in terms of whether or not we should merge, except in that we get on fairly well.
“They share geography, values and a gigantic border.” Again, true but, also, irrelevant. I will also note that while we share many values, we are actually quite apart on many values as well. For example, if such a merger happened, how would the US react to the simple fact that same sex marriages are not only legal, but totally accepted in most of Canada? This is just one example of where our “values” are different.
“Their populations study, travel and do business together and intermarry in great numbers.” Again quite true and, again, irrelevant. As a Canadian citizen who spent eighteen years married to an American citizen, I can, from personal experience, testify to the actual differences in values even when we “speak the same language.”
“If they were corporations (or European states), they would have merged a long time ago.” Really? Well, how’s that working out for the European Union? Believe me when I say that most Canadians have absolutely no desire to live in a country where municipalities are allowed to go bankrupt because they financed their projects through debt (which, BTW, has been illegal in Canada since the 1930′s).
“And each has what the other needs: The U.S. has capital, manpower, technology and the world’s strongest military; Canada has vast reserves of undeveloped resources.” Ah, and now we come to the crux of Ms. Francis’ argument: she wants to convert Canadians into their supposed “historic” role as hewers of wood and drawers of water, i.e. producers of raw materials for an “Imperial center.” Well, she may want to look at how Canada reacted to that role back in the 1970′s. I’ll give you a hint: not too well.
Ms. Francis’ lack of historical knowledge, especially in the area of political economy, becomes blatantly obvious later on in the essay.
"Truth be told, the merger of the U.S. and Canada is already well under way. As many as one in 10 Canadians (more than 3 million people) live full- or part-time in the U.S., and an estimated 1 million Americans live in Canada. As of 2010, U.S. enterprises controlled about 10% of Canada’s assets, 17% of its revenues and 13% of its corporate profits, according to Statistics Canada. Canadians bought more goods and services from Americans than did the 340 million people living in the European Union—a population 10 times as large."
“Truth”? Hmmm. In 1970, the U.S. controlled approximately 70% of Canadian businesses and approximately 60% of Canada’s assets. Now the U.S. controls only 10% of Canada’s assets. This may be a problem for U.S. firms, but it certainly is not a problem for Canadians!
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And... Discuss..... :twisted:
Notice how it's the same woman as the one in the OP?
Also notice how the counter argument link I proposed seems to have come to the exact same conclusion as I did??
My position remains the same. There is no relevant benefit for Canada in such a merger.... unless one thinks being r@ped of resources and turned into a second class region is a benefit.
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Here's the basis for a compromise. The USA defends Canadian sovereignty in the Great North and in exchange Canada recognizes the principle of "jus primae noctis" for the benefit of all male US Citizens in perpetuity.
It would be folly to believe that anything "Canadian" would remain in a merger. You be swallowed up in a morass of Americanism.
Hi All,
This is my first new thread posting, just signed up today. Anyway, I'm and American and read an article by Diane Francis in the American Interest this morning. Anyway, I read the article and then did some follow-up reading, which is how I found the a thread on this site regarding her "merger" concept. Based on what I saw from your comment, it is not a popular idea. Nonetheless, I thought I'd share with you the follow-up so you can see what she's written on the topic since then.
Here's her piece in the American Interest. BTW, if you want to follow American politics/foreign relations/energy/defense policy, I would highly recommend the American Interest's blog. Multiple daily posts and a toned down, academic and honest discussions of issues:
Canada to the Rescue! - The American Interest
Also, if you want to see where the discussion thread left off:
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/hot-topics/121748-us-canada-should-merge-into.html
Just a question; which central banking system would you use? The Fedral Reserve? I doubt it.
Instead of just 23. Still, I'm not sure we're ready to invade you over seven teams of Canadian Thugs on Ice.
All due respect Eagle; that would be one of the worst things I could possible imagine. Holy shyte ! You trying a gimme nightmares ??:sad4:
Yahbutt, we might.:lol: MO hockey........just ask Taloola.
My gosh, she has the answers. seriously
You would think so because Quebec survives the way it does under Canada. With a merger you can say "Adios" to that province.
Best line for that is from "Dances With Wolves"
"You ask how many white man will come... like the stars."
I agree 100%. It should give you nightmares. So much so you should request the Mods to shut down this thread.
Turn the US Liberals on them and the official language of Quebec will be "None".