Russia Prepared To Fight War Over Ukraine, Senior Government Official Admits

damngrumpy

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Mar 16, 2005
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Ain't life wonderful when international politics becomes beholden to international trade and
the transnational companies. I think we are testing the waters of a new arms race a new
iron curtain and perhaps another European war.
No more white papers with I spoke to Mr Putin today and I have his signature on a piece of
paper that is worthless.
The trouble is governments in the west left and right have been tinkering with the free trade
and international lets get together nonsense and now we are going to be faced with a series
of despot regimes Korea, China, Russia, the militant Arab world. If we are not careful we
are in for a very rough time and a long period of international stability. No one saw a war
coming out of an assassination in the Balkans either that resulted in WWI
 

Colpy

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I wish someone could explain to me, in terms I can understand, what the difference is between Afghanistan asking for outside help and Crimea asking for outside help - other than it was asked of the "wrong" people.

Afghanistan did not "ask for outside help", it was invaded after an attack on the USA was planned and executed from its territory.
 

lone wolf

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United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What's this all about?...

Are you suggesting some sort of double standard at play in this vital sityeeashun?

The IMF are a great organization of defecated professionals.
There is some sort of double standard at play

-when Britain ponders leaving and regrets throwing in with the lot - but cries foul when Crimea chooses to stay out of the EU:

-when the US will choose (or is that re-choose?) sides in a civil war to wage its own contest with an ideal:

-in whichever power be flavour of the day and meddling in the affairs of others should feel insult when when the sucker catches on?

Putin didn't do anything any other meddling neighnout hasn't done. Why make the gunrunners rich?
 

MHz

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I wish someone could explain to me, in terms I can understand, what the difference is between Afghanistan asking for outside help and Crimea asking for outside help - other than it was asked of the "wrong" people.
Not much difference at all, in fact it is the classic playbook that 'they' are still using today.

In the mid-70's the Afghan Government was quickly adopting all the UN Human Rights guidelines and Washington funded and supported the hard-liners that were quickly going extinct because nobody was willing to support their 'brand of rule'. That is when the terrorism started with attacks on women who were in public positions in Education and Politics and it resulted in the Government asking the USSR for help in fighting the 'terrorists' whose methods are the same as they were in the Ukraine and would have happened in Crimea as they would have 'resisted' becoming an NATO/IMF puppet.

Afghanistan did not "ask for outside help", it was invaded after an attack on the USA was planned and executed from its territory.
Well this certainly proves you are a troll rather than just ill-informed.

How Jimmy Carter and I Started the Mujahideen » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names


[SIZE=-1]January 15, 1998
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Zbigniew Brzezinski:
How Jimmy Carter and I Started the Mujahideen

by Alexander Cockburn And Jeffrey St. Clair

[SIZE=-1]Q: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?
Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.
Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?
Brzezinski: It isn’t quite that. We didn’t push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.
Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn’t believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don’t regret anything today?
Brzezinski: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.
Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic [integrisme], having given arms and advice to future terrorists?
Brzezinski: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?
Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated: Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.
Brzezinski: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn’t a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries.
[/SIZE]

[/SIZE]

...... now we are going to be faced with a series
of despot regimes Korea, China, Russia, the militant Arab world. If we are not careful we
are in for a very rough time and a long period of international stability.
No one saw a war
coming out of an assassination in the Balkans either that resulted in WWI

Would that be unlike the 40 year long cold war that the US ran where it extracted trillions and not a shot was fired??

China and Russia are writing bills that allow more freedom, the US and it's Allies are writing things like the Patriot Act and various Austerity bills that make them totalitarian states. You have your glasses on upside down.

I hope spring spares them soon.
Not to fear, it is only the US that would intentionally cut off the gas. If NATO still does that at the Russian border it will be the Ukraine that will be the last on the list to get imports from anyplace else and they would gladly let million and millions of Ukrainians freeze to death, after all you don't need many peasants to run the farms owned by International Corporations and the food grown is only for export rather than it being for local consumption. Perhaps you missed the 60's, 70's and 80's in Latin/South America.


(in part)
Russia Calls Off Retaliation -- Says "Never Mind"
33:54 -39:30 Discussion of the situation in Crimea and Russia's annexation of that country and the potential for financial sanctions levied by both sides with perhaps dramatic consequences. The sanctions turned out to be a non event, with the United States placing sanctions on eight Russian cabinet members (but not Putin himself) leaving the Russian President to declare there was no further need to retaliate against the United States. This issue could be raised at a future date. Discussion of how Russia used the threat not to use the dollar in international trade to take over Crimea. Discussion of how international situations are over blown into crisis and how its more difficult now to convince Americans that military action is necessary after the Iraq invasion based on the existence of weapons of mass destruction. Comparison of Iraq and the Cuban Missile Crisis. Discussion of why Europe and the U.S. backed down.
- See more at: http://xrepublic.tv/node/8075#sthash.DZCt1LwU.dpuf

Notice the complete lack of a sustained aerial bombarbment prior to 'knocking the gates down' and the Kiev never sent any orders teiing them what to do.
Is the Commander smiling at the 0:30 mark? Taken over but no injuries. Another story has them being given 3 choices, stay at their posts as part of the Crimean Military, quit and stay in Crimea as citizens, of leave with your family for duties in Kiev.
What do you think the 'majority' will do?? If you picked the first choice you would be correct.
 

Colpy

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United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What's this all about?...


There is some sort of double standard at play

-when Britain ponders leaving and regrets throwing in with the lot - but cries foul when Crimea chooses to stay out of the EU:

-when the US will choose (or is that re-choose?) sides in a civil war to wage its own contest with an ideal:

-in whichever power be flavour of the day and meddling in the affairs of others should feel insult when when the sucker catches on?

Putin didn't do anything any other meddling neighnout hasn't done. Why make the gunrunners rich?

- Are you really foolish enough to believe the results of the "referendum" in Crimea?? To say nothing of territorial guarantees granted by treaty by both Russia and the USA..........Oh, and you will notice that Putin has suddenly developed an interest in other areas of Ukraine. Do you REALLY need a lecture on the Sudetenland, Hitler, Chamberlain, et al????

- The USA was attacked from Afghanistan, and gave the lunatic Taliban gov't every chance to cooperate before they took matters into their own hands by allying with the Northern Alliance and invading. Ukraine attacked exactly whom??

- I believe it is Putin who is trying to rebuild the Russian Empire as a tyranny and an aggressive military power. Remember them?? They murdered tens of millions of people, with Putin as an enthusiastic KGB participant. Perhaps you'd like to bring back the Nazis in Germany as well. They murdered less people, and I'm sure the Sudetenland will vote 97% in favour of being assimilated.

-Because it is ALWAYS a struggle for supremacy, the Great Power Game never changes, and if you have something that you value, like western civilization, you MUST participate.
 

lone wolf

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I think you're taking in too much Harper rhetoric. What could he possibly know about "trustworthy"? I understand those "other areas of Ukraine" to be within Crimea - of course if you aren't able to accept Crimea as no longer in Ukraine, you're going to believe as Harper's wish....
 
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MHz

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Who's Harper? Didn't he inflate some expenses not long ago? (hint, hint)

-
- The USA was attacked from Afghanistan, and gave the lunatic Taliban gov't every chance to cooperate before they took matters into their own hands by allying with the Northern Alliance and invading. Ukraine attacked exactly whom??
OMFG you're referencing the official 9/11 story. Talk about being stuck in the twilight zone loop. lol
 

damngrumpy

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I am hoping this is the beginning of the end for the EU and the WTO.
When that happens we can get control of our country again instead
of having in the hands of international business machines as it were.
It is said over and over every war is about trade. We are facing a new
crisis because as long as Russia had supply and a naval base things
were ok when the cutoff came invasion was the solution.
Makes you wonder what would happen if Canada said no more supply
to America. You are witnessing the response.
As for what we do, we support Ukraine and the peoples dream of self
determination what ever that road might be. The Russians committed
an act of Aggression th e same as Hitler did going into Sudetenland.

Its almost time for the UN choir to start singing its same old song isn't it
 

petros

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Hitler did going into Sudetenland
Why do people keep referring to that when Putin doing the exact samething Stalin did who invaded Ukraine in1919?

Crimean never was "part of Russia" it's connected to Ukraine gets all it's electricity, food and water from Ukraine. The only way to make it part of Russia is to take another piece of Ukraine.

Ukraine could cut off Crimea AND parts of Russia off of energy and food and that kids is Kyiv's ace in the hole.
 

MHz

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I am hoping this is the beginning of the end for the EU and the WTO.
When that happens we can get control of our country again instead
of having in the hands of international business machines
as it were.
It is said over and over every war is about trade. We are facing a new
crisis because as long as Russia had supply and a naval base things
were ok when the cutoff came invasion was the solution.
Makes you wonder what would happen if Canada said no more supply
to America. You are witnessing the response.
As for what we do, we support Ukraine and the peoples dream of self
determination what ever that road might be. The Russians committed
an act of Aggression th e same as Hitler did
going into Sudetenland.

Its almost time for the UN choir to start singing its same old song isn't it
Do you proof read anything you post? 97% voted to kick Kiev out as being their leaders, rather than go on it as a soverign Nation they asked to be annexed by Russia.

Ukraine could cut off Crimea AND parts of Russia off of energy and food and that kids is Kyiv's ace in the hole.
It was their solution in 1933, today we have e-mail and you-tube, I'm pretty sure somebody would turn Kiev in before that plan was completed. If it was 10M in 1933 what would it be in this day and age, 100M starved for 'the cause'? Monsanto needs land, they don't need a bunch of 'useless eaters'
 

petros

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Do you proof read anything you post? 97% voted to kick Kiev out as being their leaders, rather than go on it as a soverign Nation they asked to be annexed by Russia.

What was the turn out to vote /number of eligible voters? Was there an option to remain an autonomous Ukrainian Province? What was average age of voters?

How did so called ethnic Russian end up in a region that that wasn't Russian? Soviet imports?

Do you proof read anything you post? 97% voted to kick Kiev out as being their leaders, rather than go on it as a soverign Nation they asked to be annexed by Russia.


It was their solution in 1933, today we have e-mail and you-tube, I'm pretty sure somebody would turn Kiev in before that plan was completed. If it was 10M in 1933 what would it be in this day and age, 100M starved for 'the cause'? Monsanto needs land, they don't need a bunch of 'useless eaters'
10 Million starved Ukrainians. No Russians were starved.

Monsanto? Are you serious? You have absolutely no clue of what and why in regards to any of this do you?

Where in the world does Monsanto own land?

Why would Monsanto or bankers wait 20 years to take control of the 3rd largest producer of food on the planet?
 

petros

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It's been that way for 20 years. The best time came and went and you'll never get a Ukrainian farmer to ever let go of his land without using a gun to do it.

They were the first to arm themselves to the tits when the opportunity arose.
 

darkbeaver

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It's been that way for 20 years. The best time came and went and you'll never get a Ukrainian farmer to ever let go of his land without using a gun to do it.

They were the first to arm themselves to the tits when the opportunity arose.

Guns were used in Irag in Syria in Libya Afghanistan, the banks and the corporations won't balk at using them in Ukraine.
 

MHz

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Timing. First softening by political instability then economic ruin. It makes for a better deal. Of course like the rest of the crap they're involved in, it's falling apart.
That and they got booted out of South America. Monsato seeds and a willing international corporation to control the lands use is the price the Ukraine will pay, the new leader was even quicker than Libya to try and get under the IMF bus. The land gets taken for the bailout money that was caused by corruption for the last 10 years, including the former leader who was rightfully in jail on corruption charges. Now she is in Germany mouthing off for them showing she certainly wasn't reformed in that short time she was imprisoned.

Goes to show you what the ostriches are missing as far as foreign intrigue goes.
 

petros

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What is the EU's stance on GMO?

Sask Wheat Pool which became Viterra is evil?

Sask Wheat Pool's formation was heavily supported by Ukrainian immigrants and is still in part owned by Canadian Ukrainian descendants like myself.

Viterra has big bucks invested in Ukraine is that a bad thing?
 
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lone wolf

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- Are you really foolish enough to believe the results of the "referendum" in Crimea?? To say nothing of territorial guarantees granted by treaty by both Russia and the USA.....

is it odd that South Vietnam’s Prime Minister, Ngo Dinh Diem won his 1954 election by the same margin?

Does it LOOK like I believe in suspect election results?
 

Colpy

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I think you're taking in too much Harper rhetoric. What could he possibly know about "trustworthy"? I understand those "other areas of Ukraine" to be within Crimea - of course if you aren't able to accept Crimea as no longer in Ukraine, you're going to believe as Harper's wish....

If you would read my posts, you would know that I understand that areas already occupied by the Russians are lost.

My concern is for areas not yet gobbled up by the crocodile.

BBC News - Nato warns of Russian army build-up on Ukraine border

Do you understand yet, Mr. Chamberlain??

Not much wonder that idiot in the White House returned the bust of Churchill that has been in the Oval Office for 70 years....it must have made him feel SO small........

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...-vladimir-putin-likely-prepping-for-invasion/

If only Harper were President and leader of the free world, allied troops would already be in Ukraine.
 
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