Vietnam - Did America Win All the Battles?

[DaSleeper]

I'd like to see what he has to say.

At any rate... threads like this warm me in a good way. The jealousy of the OP towards the US is astounding. I can't imagine the feel of irrelevance he must have for himself. Maybe it is the no identity thing.

Pride in your country is a wonderful thing......
But the hate for his neighbours that he's spewing out in every one of his posts has really gone past disease, reaching epidemic proportion......

Someone should start an anti-America thread just for him.....

 

[BaalsTears]

Not true. The Pentagon Papers, secret US government papers made public during the war, reported that the Pentagon concluded by 1967 that America could not win the Vietnam War without going nuclear. The American military's top echelons concluded that American conventional forces could not win the war. Please read the OP if you missed it.

Ho Chi Minh was on the Allied side in WW2 against Japan. He aided the allies in return for a promise of Vietnamese autonomy after the war. The US and Britain agreed. After the war ended the French said they wanted their colony back, so America turned the Jap POW’s loose under Allied officers against the Vietnamese. Eventually France tried to run the country as its old colony but failed. They were defeated by General Giap at Dien Bien Phu.

The Vietnamese demanded freedom. A north-south split developed in Vietnam in which America, having already sided against Ho Chi Minh in the north, sided with the minority in South Vietnam. A demilitarized zone was set up half way down the country and elections were called to determine whether the government of the north or south would form the central government. It became obvious that the north would win, so the US and France cancelled the elections then lied to their own countries and the world about the reason.

The Vietnamese refused to be satisfied with half a country. Even in the south the government of the south could not have won a free election. China was not the driving factor, Vietnamese nationalism was. Eventually America gave up and within three years the south fell. Within two years after that Vietnam was at war with China.

The war in Vietnam developed serious strains of anti-Americanism because America butted in after breaking its WW2 promises. The Vietnam War was primarily a civil war. Every foreigner who became involved from 1945 on was bloodied. The Japanese, the French, the Americans and finally the Chinese were all bloodied in Vietnam.



It is only politically correct in America, and not to all Americans. Mostly to dumbed down red states.

American forces were never driven from the field during the Vietnam War. The Viet Cong were destroyed as an irregular military force during Tet. That's why NVA regulars were committed by the Vietnamese Communist Party. The NVA were unable to drive American forces from the field. That's why the North Vietnamese signed the Paris Peace Accords in 1973.

Watergate was the event that permitted the American left to cutoff promised support from the ARVN. America was defeated in Vietnam...politically. Unfortunately, a political defeat has the same effect as a military defeat.

BTW, Canada and the USA have never engaged in hostilities. A Canadian consciousness didn't exist at the time of the American phase of the Napoleonic Wars.

Let me give you a head's up. Americans are through with war except for civil war.

 

[EagleSmack]

Nawwwww, starting with the War of 1812 when Canada kicked their asses.

Myth

 

[tober]

American forces were never driven from the field during the Vietnam War. The Viet Cong were destroyed as an irregular military force during Tet. That's why NVA regulars were committed by the Vietnamese Communist Party. The NVA were unable to drive American forces from the field. That's why the North Vietnamese signed the Paris Peace Accords in 1973.

War is diplomacy by other means. I believe Clausewitz said that. America lost. This "driven from the field" contradicts what was said earlier in the thread admitting that company and platoon size units were beaten. (You in post #16: Unkkkle Sam lost firefights at the company and platoon levels during the Vietnam War, but not at the battalion or greater force levels.) This is the same kind of propaganda attempt as when US forces were driven in a long retreat in Korea and a newspaper reporter asked about a previous American brag that America never lost. 'We’re not losing,’ he was told, ‘we’re attacking in reverse.’

BTW, Canada and the USA have never engaged in hostilities. A Canadian consciousness didn't exist at the time of the American phase of the Napoleonic Wars.

Another Americanism? Ever read Canadian history? We’re taught differently than you are about our country, I guess.

Let me give you a head's up. Americans are through with war except for civil war.

Another Yank extremist claiming a crystal ball, are you? That would be civil war #2? All because of a black president and medicare? Not much strength in the national self image if that’s the case. I doubt it.

He thinks (I presume) the Bay of Pigs was an invasion by the US military.

I can't read the guy you responded to but I hope he didn't say that I wrote Cuba kicked America's asz, because I wrote no such thing.

 

[Goober]

War is diplomacy by other means. I believe Clausewitz said that. America lost. This "driven from the field" contradicts what was said earlier in the thread admitting that company and platoon size units were beaten. (You in post #16: Unkkkle Sam lost firefights at the company and platoon levels during the Vietnam War, but not at the battalion or greater force levels.) This is the same kind of propaganda attempt as when US forces were driven in a long retreat in Korea and a newspaper reporter asked about a previous American brag that America never lost. 'We’re not losing,’ he was told, ‘we’re attacking in reverse.’]

Not propaganda but fact-
Korean War or do you consider it to be a Police Action.

 

[Colpy]

Nawwwww, starting with the War of 1812 when Canada kicked their asses.

I hope you aren't trying to be a historian, because you haven't a clue.

The war of 1812 was a BRITISH war. British regulars, Canadian militia, and Indian allies were commanded by Sir Isaac Brock, a brilliant general, but a Brit through and through, who resented even being in Canada.

We did very well, at times, but we were NOT Canada.

Oh, and the USA most certainly did not lose....it was generally accepted as a draw, with the treaty signed in December of 1814........although the Americans under Old Hickory (Andrew Jackson) gave the Brits an awful shellacking at New Orleans.......weeks after the war was over.

 

[tober]

Not propaganda but fact- Korean War or do you consider it to be a Police Action.

Oh, I forgot, in your world neither Canada nor the US have propaganda.

I refer to it as the Korean War.

I hope you aren't trying to be a historian, because you haven't a clue.

The war of 1812 was a BRITISH war. British regulars, Canadian militia, and Indian allies were commanded by Sir Isaac Brock, a brilliant general, but a Brit through and through, who resented even being in Canada.

The first battle, which we lost, I believe was fought by the Queens Own Rifles, an Ontario militia regiment.

We did very well, at times, but we were NOT Canada.

Many of the men thought of themselves as Canadian. They lived in what was called Upper Canada at the time.

Oh, and the USA most certainly did not lose....
it was generally accepted as a draw, with the treaty signed in December of 1814........although the Americans under Old Hickory (Andrew Jackson) gave the Brits an awful shellacking at New Orleans.......weeks after the war was over.

Colpy Colpy Colpy, there isn't a Canadian bone in your body, is there? You enjoy referring to Yank generals by their colloquial American nick names, just like you're one o' the boys? Maybe you are? Probably comes from never having worn a Canadian uniform.

There were essentially two wars. The issue that started the war was the RN impressing Brit seaman off US ships. That was arguably a Yank win. Britain agreed to stop the practice.

At the same time the US war cabinet decided this was a good time to invade Canada. They tried and lost. We won. The proof that we won is that we are not Yanks today.

After the Battle of New Orleans the Brits attacked and seized Fort Bowyer at Mobile, Alabama.

Fort Bowyer was a short-lived earthen and stockade fortification that the United States Army erected in 1813 on Mobile Point, near the mouth of Mobile Bay in Baldwin County, Alabama. The British twice attacked the fort during the War of 1812. The first, unsuccessful attack, took place in September 1814 and led to the British changing their strategy and attacking New Orleans. The second attack, following their defeat at the Battle of New Orleans, was successful, took place in February 1815, after the Treaty of Ghent had been signed but before the news had reached that part of America.[1] Between 1819 and 1834 the United States built a new masonry fortification, Fort Morgan, on the site of Fort Bowyer.[2]

Fort Bowyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
​

Are you sure you wouldn’t be happier being a right wing Yank? Or can’t you afford to leave the Canadian social safety net?

So, who won the War of 1812? On land Upper Canada defeated America with the help of British regulars. That's okay. It was a good investment. In 1918 and again in 1945 Canada helped the Brits defeat Germany. I'll bet you never bring this stuff up with your Yank buddies, eh?

 

[Colpy]

Oh, I forgot, in your world neither Canada nor the US have propaganda.

I refer to it as the Korean War.



The first battle, which we lost, I believe was fought by the Queens Own Rifles, an Ontario militia regiment.



Many of the men thought of themselves as Canadian. They lived in what was called Upper Canada at the time.



Colpy Colpy Colpy, there isn't a Canadian bone in your body, is there? You enjoy referring to dead Yank generals by their colloquial American nick names, just like you're one o' the boys? Maybe you are?

There were essentially two wars. The issue that started the war was the RN impressing Brit seaman off US ships. That was arguably a Yank win. Britain agreed to stop the practice.

At the same time the US war cabinet decided this was a good time to invade Canada. They tried and lost. We won. The proof that we won is that we are not Yanks today.

After the Battle of New Orleans the Brits attacked and seized Fort Bowyer at Mobile, Alabama.

Fort Bowyer was a short-lived earthen and stockade fortification that the United States Army erected in 1813 on Mobile Point, near the mouth of Mobile Bay in Baldwin County, Alabama. The British twice attacked the fort during the War of 1812. The first, unsuccessful attack, took place in September 1814 and led to the British changing their strategy and attacking New Orleans. The second attack, following their defeat at the Battle of New Orleans, was successful, took place in February 1815, after the Treaty of Ghent had been signed but before the news had reached that part of America.[1] Between 1819 and 1834 the United States built a new masonry fortification, Fort Morgan, on the site of Fort Bowyer.[2]

Fort Bowyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
​

Are you sure you wouldn’t be happier being a right wing Yank? Or can’t you afford to leave the Canadian social safety net?

So, who won the War of 1812? On land Upper Canada defeated America with the help of British regulars. That's okay. It was a good investment. In 1918 and again in 1945 Canada helped the Brits defeat Germany. I'll bet you never bring this stuff up with your Yank buddies, eh?

Moron:

The Battle of New Orleans was the one that saw the most casualties. The Brits lost well over 20% killed, wounded, missing. Who cares what mud hut they grabbed after??

Tecumseh was much more important in the early battles than Canadian militia........he was NOT Canadian.

You're still an idiot.

 

[tober]

You're still an idiot.

And you're still losing. I'd rather be an idiot than a loser.

 

[Colpy]

And you're still losing. I'd rather be an idiot than a loser.

Calling your bluff:

Find me a SINGLE peer-reviewed historical article that credits Canada with overall victory over the USA in the War of 1812.

Just one.

Good luck.

Because it was a DRAW, in a war between BRITAIN and the United States.

 

[tober]

Calling your bluff:

Find me a SINGLE peer-reviewed historical article that credits Canada with overall victory over the USA in the War of 1812.

Just one.

Good luck.

Because it was a DRAW, in a war between BRITAIN and the United States.

Answering your bluff. Go back and re-read what I wrote. I never said Canada had "overall victory over the USA in the War of 1812". Colpy Colpy Colpy, you sure are a slimy debater. I never said anything about overall victory. You made that up out of your l'il mind.

For my generation is has always been Canadian legend that Canada beat the US on land. If we hadn't we'd be American today. It was a defensive victory fought in large part by Canadian militia against a larger and more powerful nation, and we're proud of it. I suspect you either do not have any history degree or its not Canadian.

 

[gopher]

Good for you. I had forgotten the Downing Street memo. Nobody could've got Bush impeached given the government of the day. One thing I like about our form of government is the frequency with which we get minority government. It keeps the PM honest. America never gets that check and balance, as much as they claim to have adequate checks and balances. Nothing beats a third party.

So true.

And not surprisingly, when you write the truth you get called "anti American". It's the same thing these delusionals said about OceanBreeze when she posted on this forum. Obviously it's a projection of their hate for the USA - these wannabes want the USA to fight their battles overseas even though foreign interventionism goes against everything our Founding Fathers taught. Therefore, those who demand nonintervention abroad are the real lovers of America. Those who applaud foreign war are the real America haters.

 

[EagleSmack]

It's the same thing these delusionals said about OceanBreeze when she posted on this forum. .

Oh Breezy Breezy... where are you... Gopher needs you.

For my generation is has always been Canadian legend that Canada beat the US on land. .

Key word... LEGEND

leg·end
ˈlejənd/
noun
noun: legend; plural noun: legends

1. 1.
   a traditional story sometimes popularly regarded as historical but unauthenticated.
   
   
   
   

 

[Sons of Liberty]

So true.

And not surprisingly, when you write the truth you get called "anti American". It's the same thing these delusionals said about OceanBreeze when she posted on this forum. Obviously it's a projection of their hate for the USA - these wannabes want the USA to fight their battles overseas even though foreign interventionism goes against everything our Founding Fathers taught. Therefore, those who demand nonintervention abroad are the real lovers of America. Those who applaud foreign war are the real America haters.

Who?? That emptied headed vile full of hatred **** that probably hasn't been been laid in a decade OceanBreeze was a rational poster? you are much sicker than I thought.

 

[EagleSmack]

Who?? That emptied headed vile full of hatred **** that probably hasn't been been laid in a decade OceanBreeze was a rational poster? you are much sicker than I thought.

He loves and adores Breezy. He aches for her and she p***ed all over him. Gopher wallowed in it... writhed in it.

"No Breezy... you don't mean me do you? I always groveled to you Breezy. Please love me... "


lmao... what a sad sack.

 

[BaalsTears]

War is diplomacy by other means. I believe Clausewitz said that. America lost. This "driven from the field" contradicts what was said earlier in the thread admitting that company and platoon size units were beaten. (You in post #16: Unkkkle Sam lost firefights at the company and platoon levels during the Vietnam War, but not at the battalion or greater force levels.) This is the same kind of propaganda attempt as when US forces were driven in a long retreat in Korea and a newspaper reporter asked about a previous American brag that America never lost. 'We’re not losing,’ he was told, ‘we’re attacking in reverse.’

Hello white man,

My father in law was a hero of the People's Liberation Army. His valor at the Battle of the Chosin Reservoir earned him a slot in the Party apparatus in Guangdong. His unit was in the vanguard entering Seoul. But he admitted being driven out of Seoul by the US. He remembered the valor of the US Marines everyday when he looked in the mirror. To you this is abstract. Not to me.

Battle of Chosin Reservoir // Blk F World History - YouTube

Another Americanism? Ever read Canadian history? We’re taught differently than you are about our country, I guess.

I just don't see you as being very knowledgeable about history. What happened to the putative Canadians at the Battle of Vincennes?

What was the consciousness of the peoples of what would become Canada at the end of the Seven Years War? Did those folks see themselves as Canadians? What was the consciousness of the peoples of what would become Canada at the time of the American invasion of Quebec during the Revolutionary War? What was the consciousness of the peoples of what would become Canada at the time of the Napoleonic Wars?

Another Yank extremist claiming a crystal ball, are you? That would be civil war #2? All because of a black president and medicare? Not much strength in the national self image if that’s the case. I doubt it.

You're assuming facts not in evidence counselor. Where did you go to law school?

The civil war has been raging for years. Both sides see each other as being an existential threat greater than any remote foreign enemy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/20/opinion/blow-a-nation-divided-against-itself.html?_r=0


Welcome to the new Civil War - Salon.com

Can you tell me what unifying principle brings all Americans together?

So true.

And not surprisingly, when you write the truth you get called "anti American". It's the same thing these delusionals said about OceanBreeze when she posted on this forum. Obviously it's a projection of their hate for the USA - these wannabes want the USA to fight their battles overseas even though foreign interventionism goes against everything our Founding Fathers taught. Therefore, those who demand nonintervention abroad are the real lovers of America. Those who applaud foreign war are the real America haters.

Tober isn't anti-American...I am. Fuk your country. Let it burn.

 

[tober]

Hello white man,

My father in law was a hero of the People's Liberation Army. His valor at the Battle of the Chosin Reservoir earned him a slot in the Party apparatus in Guangdong. His unit was in the vanguard entering Seoul. But he admitted being driven out of Seoul by the US. He remembered the valor of the US Marines everyday when he looked in the mirror. To you this is abstract. Not to me.

I just don't see you as being very knowledgeable about history. What happened to the putative Canadians at the Battle of Vincennes?

What was the consciousness of the peoples of what would become Canada at the end of the Seven Years War? Did those folks see themselves as Canadians? What was the consciousness of the peoples of what would become Canada at the time of the American invasion of Quebec during the Revolutionary War? What was the consciousness of the peoples of what would become Canada at the time of the Napoleonic Wars?

You're assuming facts not in evidence counselor. Where did you go to law school?

The civil war has been raging for years. Both sides see each other as being an existential threat greater than any remote foreign enemy.

Can you tell me what unifying principle brings all Americans together?

Tober isn't anti-American...I am. Fuk your country. Let it burn.

You drunk tonight?

 

[BaalsTears]

Answering your bluff. Go back and re-read what I wrote. I never said Canada had "overall victory over the USA in the War of 1812". Colpy Colpy Colpy, you sure are a slimy debater. I never said anything about overall victory. You made that up out of your l'il mind.

For my generation is has always been Canadian legend that Canada beat the US on land. If we hadn't we'd be American today. It was a defensive victory fought in large part by Canadian militia against a larger and more powerful nation, and we're proud of it. I suspect you either do not have any history degree or its not Canadian.

Who led Canadian forces during America's Revolutionary War?

Who led Canadian forces during the War of 1812?

You drunk tonight?

No....

Answering your bluff. Go back and re-read what I wrote. I never said Canada had "overall victory over the USA in the War of 1812". Colpy Colpy Colpy, you sure are a slimy debater. I never said anything about overall victory. You made that up out of your l'il mind.

For my generation is has always been Canadian legend that Canada beat the US on land. If we hadn't we'd be American today. It was a defensive victory fought in large part by Canadian militia against a larger and more powerful nation, and we're proud of it. I suspect you either do not have any history degree or its not Canadian.

The US wasn't powerful during the War of 1812. It had an inept army, and hadn't consolidated it's control over North America.

 

[tober]

Pride inyour country is a wonderful thing....

But the hate for his neighboursthat he's spewing out in every one of his posts has really gone past disease,reaching epidemic proportion......

Someone should start ananti-America thread just for him.....

You write like somebody possessed by a very special kind of stupid. I don’t “hate” the people, and I have written that here often in reply to posters like y'all. I criticize the ideology. If you respect the ideology the US has become, fair enough. It is fascism, just so you know. Snooze away, sleeper.

The US wasn't powerful during the War of 1812. It had an inept army.

We proved that.

 

[EagleSmack]

The US wasn't powerful during the War of 1812. It had an inept army, and hadn't consolidated it's control over North America.

Spot on BT.

We proved that.

No you didn't. And oft repeated tale.