BC rejects Northern Gateway proposal

[Zipperfish]

The question is interesting, but not practical. The bottom line is that it won't happen without a political solution. The feds may have the right, constitutionally, to approve an interprovincial pipeline but without provincial consent it's the proverbial "pound of flesh and not a drop of blood." You couldn't realistically build a pipeline without infringing on areas of provincial consitutional jurisdiction. If the province were to refuse to cooperate on those issues, they'd essentially stop it. My take, anyways.

 

[damngrumpy]

Cliffy you are right, I wouldn't cross the street to protest too many things but I would fight this.
The people of BC have said NO good enough. I think the Kinder Morgan line and port is OK
as long as the product is not going to China. We need to fight that. China is a rogue State.
they have none of the values we do and they should not be allowed to invest in our resources
nor should they receive the benefit of our resources

 

[captain morgan]

The question is interesting, but not practical. The bottom line is that it won't happen without a political solution. The feds may have the right, constitutionally, to approve an interprovincial pipeline but without provincial consent it's the proverbial "pound of flesh and not a drop of blood." You couldn't realistically build a pipeline without infringing on areas of provincial consitutional jurisdiction. If the province were to refuse to cooperate on those issues, they'd essentially stop it. My take, anyways.

I think that the only time you might see the Feds 'ram through' a project against a province's will would be if it was the only option. In this case, there are a couple of options from what I understand including reversing a TCPL line to Ontario and potential construction of a deep water port in Nunavut.

My belief is that the politics of this will be of great importance, particularly as it relates to a new port in the North..... If they build a facility to handle bitumen there, will it also make sense to build LNG facilities?

IF that is the strategy, it might mothball the proposed project(s) for LNG in BC.... Who really knows, but I'd wager that this is the carrot on the stick for Clark - kind of an all-or-none option

 

[Trex]

If BC prevents Alberta blue water access at will where then goes Canada?
Confederation dictates that road, rail and pipeline access exists nationally.
If it does not exist there what then is the point of Confederation at all?
As far as the extensive multi year review of the Gateway pipeline, if it finds in favor of the pipeline and BC rejects that then why would any pipeline in BC be acceptable?
Should they then all be shut down?
Should they all be shut down Nationally?
60% of BC's natural gas flows through Alberta.
Should Alberta shut down those lines?
Where is the benefit to Alberta?
Where is the benefit to Alberta's Indigenous peoples?

As to oil spills while shipping.
The Port of Vancouver is either the largest or second largest port on the west coast of North America.
What goes in and out of that port is mind boggling.
Pesticides, Herbicides, Mutagens, Radioactives, undetectable plastic landmines and other exportable Canadian munitions, pharamacueticals galore, every kind of petroleum feedstock derivative you can imagine and on top of all that crap boatloads full of Chinese junk destined for Walmart's primarily in Ontario and Quebec.
If that stuff goes in the water it could, potentially, be far far worse than a load of heavy crude.
Should the Federal Government shut down the port of Vancouver?
What should be allowed for shipping, unicorns and moonbeams?
Who decides?
How?
How does allowing all that crap to cross Alberta's or Saskatchewan's borders by truck or by rail benefit those provinces?
It does not.
Show me the money?
How about Alberta, Sask and Manitoba shut moving all that road and rail imported and exported crap right down?
And how about all the Indigenous Peoples of the Prairies, where then is their cut?
And so goes Confederation.
If BC can landlock Alberta or Saskatchewan at will, what then is the point of Canada?
If oil pipelines are evil then shut them down, all of them.
If shipping dangerous goods off the coast of BC is too great a risk, shut down the west coast ports, all of them.

 

[Goober]

Put it this way- It could be delayed till after the Fed election.
And if Harper is in, the pipeline will go thru- BC will get funds- from the Feds as they gain a significant windfall on taxes - reg will be tightened as they should. The pipeline will go thru.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

If BC prevents Alberta blue water access at will where then goes Canada?
Confederation dictates that road, rail and pipeline access exists nationally.
If it does not exist there what then is the point of Confederation at all?
As far as the extensive multi year review of the Gateway pipeline, if it finds in favor of the pipeline and BC rejects that then why would any pipeline in BC be acceptable?
Should they then all be shut down?
Should they all be shut down Nationally?
60% of BC's natural gas flows through Alberta.
Should Alberta shut down those lines?
Where is the benefit to Alberta?
Where is the benefit to Alberta's Indigenous peoples?

As to oil spills while shipping.
The Port of Vancouver is either the largest or second largest port on the west coast of North America.
What goes in and out of that port is mind boggling.
Pesticides, Herbicides, Mutagens, Radioactives, undetectable plastic landmines and other exportable Canadian munitions, pharamacueticals galore, every kind of petroleum feedstock derivative you can imagine and on top of all that crap boatloads full of Chinese junk destined for Walmart's primarily in Ontario and Quebec.
If that stuff goes in the water it could, potentially, be far far worse than a load of heavy crude.
Should the Federal Government shut down the port of Vancouver?
What should be allowed for shipping, unicorns and moonbeams?
Who decides?
How?
How does allowing all that crap to cross Alberta's or Saskatchewan's borders by truck or by rail benefit those provinces?
It does not.
Show me the money?
How about Alberta, Sask and Manitoba shut moving all that road and rail imported and exported crap right down?
And how about all the Indigenous Peoples of the Prairies, where then is their cut?
And so goes Confederation.
If BC can landlock Alberta or Saskatchewan at will, what then is the point of Canada?
If oil pipelines are evil then shut them down, all of them.
If shipping dangerous goods off the coast of BC is too great a risk, shut down the west coast ports, all of them.

Listening to you you'd think Canada was an oil company and not a country.

 

[Goober]

Listening to you you'd think Canada was an oil company and not a country.

How does 1 trillion dollars in taxes collected sound. Pays for a ton of social programs.

 

[Trex]

How does 1 trillion dollars in taxes collected sound. Pays for a ton of social programs.

Not to disagree but the latest numbers I saw were $365 billion right off the top of Canada's GDP.

!000's upon 1000's of man years of work.

If we all work hard enough at it we can pretty much drive Canada right into thirld world status.

But the plants, owls and the newts and all that $hit will be happy.

And the Indigenous Peoples can hold a healing circle for all the folks on their way to the food bank.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Not to disagree but the latest numbers I saw were $365 billion right off the top of Canada's GDP.

!000's upon 1000's of man years of work.

If we all work hard enough at it we can pretty much drive Canada right into thirld world status.

But the plants, owls and the newts and all that $hit will be happy.

And the Indigenous Peoples can hold a healing circle for all the folks on their way to the food bank.

If you hate this country so much why not move somewhere else.

Nigeria sounds great for someone like you, apparently Shell Oil has been running the place for years.

 

[Cliffy]

Running tankers out of Vancouver is nowhere as near as dangerous as running them out of Kitimat. BCers are fed up with corporation running rough shod over their lives. Life is not about a bunch of entries in a ledger. It is not about red or black ink. There is no logic or life in pissing in your drinking water or crapping in your bed. If the corporations all packed up and went away tomorrow, people would think of something else to do. If they didn't have oil or gas they would invest their time in alternatives. If Canada would force its will on BCers, I can see BC ceding from confederation. If our government in Victoria bends to federal will, they will feel the sting of rejection.

 

[B00Mer]

No worries, they can start shipping oil via truck and trains..

Much safer, muuuuuch safer. LOL :lol:

 

[Goober]

Running tankers out of Vancouver is nowhere as near as dangerous as running them out of Kitimat. BCers are fed up with corporation running rough shod over their lives. Life is not about a bunch of entries in a ledger. It is not about red or black ink. There is no logic or life in pissing in your drinking water or crapping in your bed. If the corporations all packed up and went away tomorrow, people would think of something else to do. If they didn't have oil or gas they would invest their time in alternatives. If Canada would force its will on BCers, I can see BC ceding from confederation. If our government in Victoria bends to federal will, they will feel the sting of rejection.

Secession- Not going to happen- Read the articles- BC wants more money.

 

[Cliffy]

Secession- Not going to happen- Read the articles- BC wants more money.

The BC Liberals want more money. They are about as out of touch with real people as the Harpo government.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

Running tankers out of Vancouver is nowhere as near as dangerous as running them out of Kitimat. BCers are fed up with corporation running rough shod over their lives. Life is not about a bunch of entries in a ledger. It is not about red or black ink. There is no logic or life in pissing in your drinking water or crapping in your bed. If the corporations all packed up and went away tomorrow, people would think of something else to do. If they didn't have oil or gas they would invest their time in alternatives. If Canada would force its will on BCers, I can see BC ceding from confederation. If our government in Victoria bends to federal will, they will feel the sting of rejection.

Bang on, Canada is so much more than one sector, however important it may be at the moment.

Canadians aren't stupid, although we're being treated that way by people who place their immediate interests ahead of ours.

If you look at some of the challenges the people of this country has gone through in the past, I find it insulting to keep claiming we're helpless and hopeless without oil, coal and natural gas.

 

[B00Mer]

Canadians aren't stupid, although we're being treated that way by people who place their immediate interests ahead of ours.

NAFTA - corporate interests take precedence over the Canadian voter.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

NAFTA - corporate interests take precedence over the Canadian voter.

Wanna bet.

A lot of those corporate interests won't even be around in a few years I'm betting.

The world is changing fast and considering the history of this nation, anybody stupid enough to stand in front of the people of this country when they make up their mind where they want to go is going to get exactly what they deserve.

 

[taxslave]

You really don't know the mind set of BCers. There will be boots on the ground. There will be war. This is not a threat. It is a fact. Send your damn oil to the US. I think you may run into the same problem down there. Find something with more integrity to make a living than destroying yours and our environments.

Apparently you don't either. Many of us were banking on the jobs provided by the pipeline. Of course those of you that sponge off the taxpayer don't care if we have to move to Alberta to support our families.
AN incredibly short sighted move by our government unless the feds can over ride it since it is a federal jurisdiction. Maybe we should quit paying taxes in protest.

Lived out there long enough to know the mindset and have seen the corporate response over the years.

The province is not corporate-friendly and fewer and fewer major companies/projects are considered fro the province... You guys are voluntarily transforming yourself into a backwater that will be no more than a tourist attraction that is subject to the trends and whims of the service industry.

You have already borrowed yourself to the limit, pushed away any growth associated with major companies and need to tax the average citizen into the grave in order to pamper the various lobbies and welfare demographics.

... You tell me what you think will happen if this keeps up?

Not us. It is all the friggin freeloaders from Ontario that have infested what was once a nice place to live and work that are screwing up the economy.

 

[JLM]

Running tankers out of Vancouver is nowhere as near as dangerous as running them out of Kitimat. BCers are fed up with corporation running rough shod over their lives. Life is not about a bunch of entries in a ledger. It is not about red or black ink. There is no logic or life in pissing in your drinking water or crapping in your bed. If the corporations all packed up and went away tomorrow, people would think of something else to do. If they didn't have oil or gas they would invest their time in alternatives. If Canada would force its will on BCers, I can see BC ceding from confederation. If our government in Victoria bends to federal will, they will feel the sting of rejection.

Why would that be? I would imagine there is far more traffic on the water around Vancouver.

 

[taxslave]

Maybe we could twin the tracks to Pr. Rupert and put a pipe under the railed to make cleanup of spilled railcars easier.

 

[Cliffy]

Maybe we could twin the tracks to Pr. Rupert and put a pipe under the railed to make cleanup of spilled railcars easier.

I don't think you would get near as much opposition if the pipeline went under or beside an existing right of way. The problem most people have wit it is that it will run through pristine wilderness that will be lost forever if spills occur... and no amount of promises will avoid spills. The island and straights off Kitimat are far too dangerous. Take it to Prince Rupert or Vancouver along existing right of ways.