Mississippi School Forces Students To Listen To Christian Lecture, Teachers Block Exi
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I went into this web page http
I went into this web page http
://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/03/15/mississippi-governor-signs-bill-forcing-public-schools-to-give-students-open-forum-to-push-religious-views-on-others/
and this excerpt caught my eye:
"Simply put, the law dictates that school administrators interrupt the business of educating our kids to allow students to openly preach religious beliefs regardless of what other students may or may not believe. Students could also write a science paper that is supposed to be about evolution on creationism instead without consequences.
Students could refute other science facts as well such as how female anatomy works or climate change."
"...Students could refute other science facts as well such as how female anatomy works..."
What exactly does this mean? How can Christians, or any religious group, claim they are allowed to refute the facts of human female biology?
I say that this is one of those cut-in-stone areas where change cannot be incurred through denial or by any other means.
This is a particularly dangerous trend. These young folk are being trained/conditioned , by the adult Christian fundamentalists, to live in a fantasy world; a world that has no bearing in reality and can only harm them in the end. They will be unable to cope in the world at large with ridiculous ideas like this one.
I have many American Christian fundamentalist relatives in my family. All of the 13 nieces and nephews were reared in this way and they, in turn, are raising their children in this way too. And so it goes on. My brothers married Christian women after returning from Vietnam war and settled in the USA. Over a period of about five years they became radically fundamentalist. It just got crazy at family gatherings. . It is almost impossible to have a conversation with them and this has not improved over the past 40+ years.
They are, I have to say this, they are crazy people. They think Sarah Palin is balanced and has good ideas. They actually agree with her ilk.
One bro's 32 Year old daughter, Whom I communicate with via the Internet, astounded me when she revealed to me a total ignorance of paedophelia. I had mentioned something about heinous crimes commted on children and she did not know what I was talking about. She really did not know that sexual abuse of children existed!! This niece is intelligent and was in her second marriage. ." She said, oh my goodness auntie, why is that happening up in Canada? We don't have that here."
I was agog. I asked her if she read newspapers, or viewed newscasts on TV, Or looked up the news on the Internet. She was taught to be in a bubble which she shares with Jesus. She can't understand why her first husband wanted to have sex with other women. She lives in fear of her current husband doing the same thing so she decided to have a baby. She thinks that if she just prays enough that everything will work out because Jesus is going to take care of it. She's around 40 years of age now and has not changed.
This is very frightening to me and she isn't the only one like that. The Bible Bel and the country t is filled with these kind of people. I am certain we have some in Canada too.
I went into this web page http
://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/03/15/mississippi-governor-signs-bill-forcing-public-schools-to-give-students-open-forum-to-push-religious-views-on-others/
and this excerpt caught my eye:
"Simply put, the law dictates that school administrators interrupt the business of educating our kids to allow students to openly preach religious beliefs regardless of what other students may or may not believe. Students could also write a science paper that is supposed to be about evolution on creationism instead without consequences.
Students could refute other science facts as well such as how female anatomy works or climate change."
"...Students could refute other science facts as well such as how female anatomy works..."
What exactly does this mean? How can Christians, or any religious group, claim they are allowed to refute the facts of human female biology?
I say that this is one of those cut-in-stone areas where change cannot be incurred through denial or by any other means.
This is a particularly dangerous trend. These young folk are being trained/conditioned , by the adult Christian fundamentalists, to live in a fantasy world; a world that has no bearing in reality and can only harm them in the end. They will be unable to cope in the world at large with ridiculous ideas like this one.
I have many American Christian fundamentalist relatives in my family. All of the 13 nieces and nephews were reared in this way and they, in turn, are raising their children in this way too. And so it goes on. My brothers married Christian women after returning from Vietnam war and settled in the USA. Over a period of about five years they became radically fundamentalist. It just got crazy at family gatherings. . It is almost impossible to have a conversation with them and this has not improved over the past 40+ years.
They are, I have to say this, they are crazy people. They think Sarah Palin is balanced and has good ideas. They actually agree with her ilk.
One bro's 32 Year old daughter, Whom I communicate with via the Internet, astounded me when she revealed to me a total ignorance of paedophelia. I had mentioned something about heinous crimes commted on children and she did not know what I was talking about. She really did not know that sexual abuse of children existed!! This niece is intelligent and was in her second marriage. ." She said, oh my goodness auntie, why is that happening up in Canada? We don't have that here."
I was agog. I asked her if she read newspapers, or viewed newscasts on TV, Or looked up the news on the Internet. She was taught to be in a bubble which she shares with Jesus. She can't understand why her first husband wanted to have sex with other women. She lives in fear of her current husband doing the same thing so she decided to have a baby. She thinks that if she just prays enough that everything will work out because Jesus is going to take care of it. She's around 40 years of age now and has not changed.
This is very frightening to me and she isn't the only one like that. The Bible Bel and the country t is filled with these kind of people. I am certain we have some in Canada too.
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Did anyone actually read that Bill or are you all ready to believe the spin put on it by people with an agenda.....
This link should bring you an actual PDF document that you can judge for yourself although I doubt that it will convince ideologues on either side ....
Google The first link at the top of the page
This link should bring you an actual PDF document that you can judge for yourself although I doubt that it will convince ideologues on either side ....
Google The first link at the top of the page
Intolerance does not belong to the Muslims alone. Intolerance and violent Christians
are every bit as dangerous as Muslims or any other group for that matter. I am sure
this episode endeared this individual to the Faith. When are people going to realize
that forcing people to do something or forbidding them to do something else only
makes things worse.
You cannot force people to listen to the word anymore than you can forbid people
drinking or smoking. If the faith were so wonderful and these people's version of it,
people would flock to join. The mere fact they have to force people should be the
first clue. Someday the masses will figure out the biggest fraud in history has been
committed by religious leaders. No not religion but those who administer it for their
own ego.
are every bit as dangerous as Muslims or any other group for that matter. I am sure
this episode endeared this individual to the Faith. When are people going to realize
that forcing people to do something or forbidding them to do something else only
makes things worse.
You cannot force people to listen to the word anymore than you can forbid people
drinking or smoking. If the faith were so wonderful and these people's version of it,
people would flock to join. The mere fact they have to force people should be the
first clue. Someday the masses will figure out the biggest fraud in history has been
committed by religious leaders. No not religion but those who administer it for their
own ego.
When you block the exits and force people to listen to this stuff it is forcing
them to listen. Making something available and inviting people to come on
their own is one thing. This is State Sponsored dictatorship.
Religion should come to grips with the reality of life. For example if you are
going to sell me a product or service there are business rules that apply.
You have to be honest and the product has to work. Business spend millions
ensuring drugs and vehicles work and are credible.
Now religion is different. Not just the Christian religion and God Bless them I
am not saying we deny the right for people to have faith. but the same science
that determines anti biotic work, should be applied to religion.
Where is God? Is there a miracle or the odds of chance at play?
Will people go to heaven? If so what is their reward for being faithful?
If you are asking for money and advertising the church of what ever on TV etc,
they should have to prove the value of the product.
I am not against faith or even religion, but if you are going to force people, and
blocking the exits is forcing those inside to be a part of the activity that is not
faith it is tyranny
Oh and I might not have faith in a product but science might say it works. In the
case of religion any particular doctrine its based on faith and they conduct business
without proving the business model has scientific value.
them to listen. Making something available and inviting people to come on
their own is one thing. This is State Sponsored dictatorship.
Religion should come to grips with the reality of life. For example if you are
going to sell me a product or service there are business rules that apply.
You have to be honest and the product has to work. Business spend millions
ensuring drugs and vehicles work and are credible.
Now religion is different. Not just the Christian religion and God Bless them I
am not saying we deny the right for people to have faith. but the same science
that determines anti biotic work, should be applied to religion.
Where is God? Is there a miracle or the odds of chance at play?
Will people go to heaven? If so what is their reward for being faithful?
If you are asking for money and advertising the church of what ever on TV etc,
they should have to prove the value of the product.
I am not against faith or even religion, but if you are going to force people, and
blocking the exits is forcing those inside to be a part of the activity that is not
faith it is tyranny
Oh and I might not have faith in a product but science might say it works. In the
case of religion any particular doctrine its based on faith and they conduct business
without proving the business model has scientific value.
Christianity predated Islam by 500 years or so? Christians instigated a so-called Holy War known as the Crusades and attempted to commit genocide upon the emergent practitioners of Islam. I would say you are absolutely right. It doesn't matter what religion it is for all can become extremists and any can choose to force their ways, their ideologies on others. There is no limit to the atrocities that can be (and have been) perpetrated upon others in the name of God.
In case you didn't read the Bill.....
SENATE BILL NO. 2633
AN ACT TO ENACT THE "MISSISSIPPI STUDENT RELIGIOUS LIBERTIES 1 ACT OF 2013"; TO PROVIDE FOR VOLUNTARY STUDENT EXPRESSION OF RELIGIOUS VIEWPOINTS IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS; TO PROVIDE THAT PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICTS SHALL ALLOW RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION IN CLASS ASSIGNMENTS; TO PROVIDE THAT PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICTS SHALL PROVIDE STUDENTS WITH THE FREEDOM TO ORGANIZE RELIGIOUS GROUPS AND ACTIVITIES; TO PROVIDE THAT PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICTS SHALL PROVIDE A LIMITED PUBLIC FORUM FOR STUDENT SPEAKERS AT NONGRADUATION AND 8 GRADUATION EVENTS; TO PROVIDE A MODEL POLICY FOR VOLUNTARY RELIGIOUS EXPRESSION IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS; AND FOR RELATED PURPOSES. 10
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF MISSISSIPPI
Yeah-huh, and then there's this from the article:
"Northwest Rankin High School in Flowood, Mississippi is under fire for allegedly forcing its students to attend and listen to Christian lectures during three assemblies held in April alone. Worse yet, students were barred from leaving and teachers blocked the exits to prevent any of them from doing so. One student was able to film one of the assemblies. As a result, a lawsuit has been filed on behalf of the students by the American Humanist Association. The organization filed the suit on Wednesday.
According to Raw Story,
“The assemblies showed a video laced with Christian messages about overcoming personal hardships through Jesus Christ and were allegedly led by local church officials.”
These church officials spoke about Jesus Christ dying “for our sins” and that the only way “to atone” for those sins is to accept Jesus. In other words, Christian officials were trying to indoctrinate students into the Christian religion whether they liked it or not.
Under the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, such assemblies are unconstitutional because they violate the religious freedom of those who do not want to be in attendance. And since the school forced all of the students to be there and physically blocked them from leaving, these students were held against their will. That action is known as unlawful restraint and it is a felony. So this high school basically committed a crime in the effort to convert non-Christians to Christianity."
None of what happened played out as described by the bill you suggest, Petros. There was no "Voluntary" anything in this, nor was it students who had this assembly held, but Church Officials which violates the law as it's supposed to be students, not Church Officials holding such meetings. And this was not a "limited" forum but, according to the lawsuit, "all students at the School of a particular grade level".
Whatever argument you were trying to have by using this bill is rather invalid at this point.
But we'll see how the lawsuit turns out.
You can't walk out of an assembly in any school. Assemblys are mandatory. Truancy is illegal.
Smarten up.
Smarten up.
Forcing students (especially non-Christians or the non-Religious) to listen to a pure Christian speech is also illegal. Not allowing those students to leave - and yes, they CAN leave; they'd be punished but they have the freedom to leave if they wish, or would have if the teachers didn't block exits - by keeping them in a place they do not wish to be is ALSO illegal.
I'm not the one that needs to Smarten up.
No it's not. You can't walk out of mandatory assemblies. Did they talk about the football team too? If the kids could give a rats azz about the school team, is that illegally forcing football on somebody who isn't a player or a fan?
You contradict yourself in that one.
Show where in the article it says this is a mandatory assembly? Don't think it did. (Actually I've read they did, so yes, you're right, I stand corrected.)
I don't know, did they talk about the football team? Only says Christian officials talked about their religion so don't know where you're getting this football thing. That said, if there was an assembly about a football team, and someone didn't want to be there, then yes, they should be allowed to leave. If the teachers force students to stay by standing at exits and barring them from leaving, that IS illegal.
I didn't contradict anything; read it again. These students were not allowed the freedom to leave by having teachers posted at exits to keep them there. At any other assembly I'd ever been to, not only did teachers never do that, but if a student DID want to leave, they could. They might be punished for it but they could still leave. These students could not.
Sorry, no contradiction there.
According to the lawsuit, this is what was said at this assembly.
“Each one of us has a story and the story that you guys heard from those guys up there [in the video] is where they used to put their hope in… the first one was in his grandfather. For some of them it was a relationship with a girl or just a friend. For some of them it was maybe it was alcohol or drugs. And that’s where they found hope. But the fact is every single one of those guys that shared there story told you that they came up empty. Because they were broken and because these things are material and they run out and they are of this world.
So maybe many of you struggle with the same things you come from a home in which your parents divorced at an early age… you have a scar in your life and you begin to try to fill it with something of this world and it ran out, it didn’t satisfy you and so you continue to search and you continue to look and it became a greater problem. We are here today to tell you where we find our hope. We find our hope in Jesus Christ.
As I say that I know some of you go, ‘Yeah I know who Jesus is and I’m not really… I’m not about that life.’ And we know it is not cool for us to stand up here and tell you that we follow Jesus. We understand that. But that’s okay. Because we care about you so much that there is no way that we could graduate from high school and have a hope that we believe is for our eternity and not share it with you guys. How selfish of us would that be. That we know there is a life changing hope out there and we not share it with you.
Some of you may not know who Jesus is and say ‘who is this Jesus?’ Jesus was God’s son and he came to earth over 2,000 years ago and for 33 years he walked the earth. He lived a perfect life. Something that no one else has done. He lived a perfect life. See we all in our past, we all have messed up. We’ve all failed. And it is because of this that our relationship with God is [unclear]… there was a gap between us and God because God is perfect and human is not. Then Jesus came knowing the end was in mind and his ultimate purpose to come to earth was to die. Not a normal death. But a death for each and every one of you and a death for me. That was his purpose. See, before Jesus came, innocent blood had to be shed for our sins. There had to be an animal that was sacrificed to atone for our sin. There had to be innocent blood. So Jesus came and he was the innocent blood because he lived a perfect life. He was that innocent blood. See the last few years of Jesus’ life he traveled from region to region and country to country and he had 12 disciples that followed him everywhere. And he talked about the hope he was bringing.
And he did many signs of miracles, he made the… [unclear], the blind could see, the deaf could hear, he would cast out evil demons, he would drive them out. But the people of that day dissed [unclear] who he was even though he did all these things, they still dissed [unclear] who he was because they thought Jesus was coming as an earthly king. They thought he was coming to reign here. And be glorified here. But that is not what Jesus came to do. Jesus came to be last. When he was on earth Jesus came to be last… And so even though Jesus was perfect he was condemned as a man that ought to die. And he was beaten, he was spit on and he was mopped and he was whipped and he was he was nailed to the cross. And when he was nailed to the cross [for] your sins, all your past failures, all your present failures, all your future failures, all my failures were nailed to the cross with Jesus. Then he died. But, see, our hope is not in the death of Jesus. That’s not where we find hope. But our hope comes three days later when on that Sunday morning the disciples… went to the tomb where Jesus was. They found that the stone had been rolled away and in its place was the angel of the Lord and the Angel Lord said he is not here for he has risen. Our hope is in the life that Jesus offers. Because he defeated sin. He defeated death. And he is victorious. And Jesus offers the same life to you, forgiveness, grace, love, mercy and hope for each and every one of us… Before Jesus we were dead in our sin. But Jesus came to give us life. He came to bridge the gap. He laid down his life and the gap between us and God so that through him we may have life abundantly. As Christians God calls us to more than just a Sunday life… More than just saying I believe in Jesus but not acting like it… us guys will tell you we’re not perfect we don’t claim to be and we don’t want to be because if we were perfectwe wouldn’t be Jesus. We still struggle just like all of you. Though we try on a daily basis to have a relationship with God. That’s what he calls us to… a daily relationship with God. In which we… learn more value and try to live a life that exemplifies that. But we still mess up… but that’s the beauty of the gospel is that we are not who we used to be, our identity is not who we used to be, it’s not in our previous failures, it’s in Christ. As a Christian our identity is in Christ and what he came to do for us."
Yeah, I don't blame students for wanting to leave if they were non-Christian. This is TOTALLY illegal to have in a public school. You want to preach, save it for a private religious school and if there is none in the area, make one.
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Nobody quotes the Bible like an atheist, and choose to believe the rantings of people with an agenda over the letter of the law that I posted here
But of course That doesn't fit with that poster's agenda:roll:
The bill is not what is in question. The actions of the school and religious officials is what is in question. What does quoting the bill have to do with forcing the kids to listen to religious rants. The bill says it is supposed to be voluntary. But then, those responsible are fundamentalist loonies. Does that make it OK?