Clueless CNN reporters are shocked at rape coverage backlash

[Tecumsehsbones]

I never said she was at fault. I proposed that she bears some responsibility.

Ahhh, at least you recognize that there was a mistake made.

In jurisprudence, mistakes have ramifications, unless of course we're talking about a rape victim.

Thus absolving the victim of all responsibility.

I agree, but only two people have been railed (ignoring for the moment that there are other youths, not the victim, involved) while the victims actions have apparently had no bearing.

To the best of my knowledge, mistakes by the victim of a crime don't have ramifications in criminal jurisprudence. Certain conduct by the victim may raise certain specific defences (such as self-defence), but the general theory is that the conduct of the victim has little or nothing to do with the breach of law by the accused.

To ask the rape victim "Why did you get falling-down drunk at a party" would seem to me to be analogous to asking a mugging victim "Why were you walking in a bad part of town at 2:00 in the morning wearing a Rolex?" or asking the victim of a road-rage homicide "Why did you cut the other driver off?"

I don't know that the criminal law requires victims to justify themselves.

 

[Walter]

I don't know that the criminal law requires victims to justify themselves.

Habeas corpus.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Habeas corpus.

Thank you, Walter.

As Walter provides an excellet example, many areas of jurisprudence, particularly civil, contract, and sometimes rights jurisprudence, do indeed take "mistakes" into account, which is why I specified "criminal jurisprudence" in my post.

 

[captain morgan]

She was not the victim of a CRIME

That's entirely a function of the investigation into the event, isn't it?

But it seems to me that even asking questions that are suggest anything other than blind support are taboo and to be attacked immediately.

 

[karrie]

That's entirely a function of the investigation into the event, isn't it?

But it seems to me that even asking questions that are suggest anything other than blind support are taboo and to be attacked immediately.

The investigation is done, it was found to be rape.

And STILL there is discussion of her responsibility in being a victim. What other crime do you hold victims accountable for?

If you want to act like you've been attacked by being disagreed with, I'd suggest you're being a bit thin skinned.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The investigation is done, it was found to be rape.

And STILL there is discussion of her responsibility in being a victim. What other crime do you hold victims accountable for?

If you want to act like you've been attacked by being disagreed with, I'd suggest you're being a bit thin skinned.

Of course she was asking for it!

I mean, there she was, being all female and all. . .

 

[captain morgan]

The investigation is done, it was found to be rape.

... And in order to come to that conclusion, the authorities had to look at everything... And my interpretation of your commentary is that it is verbotten to ever consider that potential.

And STILL there is discussion of her responsibility in being a victim. What other crime do you hold victims accountable for?

Bullsh*t.. There is no discussion on it; the question was simply asked aloud; and that's roughly the point where you launched into the accusation that people were of the position that "she had it coming"....

If you want to act like you've been attacked by being disagreed with, I'd suggest you're being a bit thin skinned.

Too funny... The only thing that I have ever suggested in this specific circumstance is that all parties need to be analyzed - the victim included. Apparently that doesn't sit well with you and is deserving of innuendo and gross, over exaggerations applied to people that simply ask the question.

Let me ask you this: The community in which the event occurred seems to be divided on this... Have you wondered at all why this is the case?... I certainly don't have the answer; but it makes me wonder


Talk about thin skin

 

[karrie]

... And in order to come to that conclusion, the authorities had to look at everything... And my interpretation of your commentary is that it is verbotten to ever consider that potential.




Bullsh*t.. There is no discussion on it; the question was simply asked aloud; and that's roughly the point where you launched into the accusation that people were of the position that "she had it coming"....



Too funny... The only thing that I have ever suggested in this specific circumstance is that all parties need to be analyzed - the victim included. Apparently that doesn't sit well with you and is deserving of innuendo and gross, over exaggerations applied to people that simply ask the question.

Let me ask you this: The community in which the event occurred seems to be divided on this... Have you wondered at all why this is the case?... I certainly don't have the answer; but it makes me wonder


Talk about thin skin

Yeah, we've discussed that too. Feel free to read back.

And no, I never said anyone on here said she had it coming. Still.

 

[captain morgan]

Yeah, we've discussed that too. Feel free to read back.

Let's do that... All it takes is back one post.. A little further and yep, the exaggeration put forward that "she was asking for it".. .Of course, you never read that in anyone's post - it's just a convenient brand to apply to any dissenting opinion and a discussion-ending-strategy to silence all that want to simply ask a question

And STILL there is discussion of her responsibility in being a victim. What other crime do you hold victims accountable for?

So, asking the question is prohibited then, is it? Apparently there is a large population in that community that want to discuss it... Are they all wrong?.. They are just attacking the victim because they have nothing better to do on a Saturday afternoon.

So, will you allow anyone to ask the question or is your word final?

The investigation is done, it was found to be rape.

This investigation was done too and as it turns out, they were wrong.

Here's an example of the results of asking those questions despite the court ruling otherwise.
Five wrongly convicted in 80s Central Park rape look back - CBS News

There's lots more if you need clarity. Let me know if you want me to post them

And no, I never said anyone on here said she had it coming. Still.

Oh, I get it, you just made that comment to add a little color to the posts.

Gotcha

 

[spaminator]

20/20 Season 32 Episode 33 | Full TV Episode Online - ABC.com

 

[karrie]

I'm still discussing, you're the one hung up. But, I'm not discussing this only with you. I'm discussing it with other people as well, and I'm discussing what the news reports have said. I'm discussing things people have said, things people have heard, surrounding attitudes towards rape. If you can't handle that it's not all about you, move along.

You think these rapists have been wrongfully convicted?

 

[captain morgan]

I'm still discussing, you're the one hung up. But, I'm not discussing this only with you. I'm discussing it with other people as well, and I'm discussing what the news reports have said. I'm discussing things people have said, things people have heard, surrounding attitudes towards rape. If you can't handle that it's not all about you, move along.

You sure have a funny way of 'discussing'

You think these rapists have been wrongfully convicted?

Nope; I think that they are guilty beyond any shadow of doubt, but that doesn't me you can't ask questions.

It's these kind of questions that resulted in this:

Community of the Wrongly Accused: Deputies: Woman lied about rape to cover up not being pregnant

or this

David Milgaard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regardless, this back and forth is a massive waste of both our time... We can agree to disagree on whatever this has morphed into

 

[karrie]

Regardless, this back and forth is a massive waste of both our time... We can agree to disagree on whatever this has morphed into

From what I can tell reading back, you've internalized a comment I made to Sal about the people who've threatened this girl and the chaos in her community.

I never told you to shut up. Never attempted to block your posts, report you, or have your commentary deleted. I never attributed the comments I made about her community, to you. But you don't want to hear it.

Nope; I think that they are guilty beyond any shadow of doubt, but that doesn't me you can't ask questions.

When you and I first started exchanging in this thread, it was because you said she bears responsibility for their crime.

I still haven't gotten a good explanation from you about what other crimes society ever holds the victim responsible for.

If they're guilty, and she's a victim, saying she holds responsibility is not 'asking questions'. It's assigning blame to a woman, for having been raped. Be honest about that.

20/20 Season 32 Episode 33 | Full TV Episode Online - ABC.com

US only... damn. Care to give us an overview?

 

[spaminator]

US only... damn.

the yanks are such ****s. they allow us to view their videos on tv but not on the internet. :roll:

try these links below.

http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/index.php/kwidget/wid/1_2lqux2kn/uiconf_id/3775332/st_cache/25181

http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/index.php/kwidget/wid/1_qsd4i6wv/uiconf_id/3775332/st_cache/85207

http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/index.php/kwidget/wid/1_2xc25pvg/uiconf_id/3775332/st_cache/98361

http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/index.php/kwidget/wid/1_ceqhhpv5/uiconf_id/3775332/st_cache/63341

http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/index.php/kwidget/wid/1_xlgs0oyw/uiconf_id/3775332/st_cache/14741

 

[captain morgan]

When you and I first started exchanging in this thread, it was because you said she bears responsibility for their crime.

The comment was made that everyone bears responsibility for their decisions, actions, etc.. No one, from what I recall, ever suggested that this girl assume any responsibility for being sexually assaulted.

Never have I stated, implied or insinuated that this girl assume responsibility for the assault... I have simply suggested that all angles be reviewed - including that of the victim.

There is a very big difference between what I have suggested above and what you have interpreted my position to be to this point.

I still haven't gotten a good explanation from you about what other crimes society ever holds the victim responsible for.

I think that the links on wrongful rape convictions should provide an excellent explanation of the relativity of (criminal) responsibility. Those are examples (rare examples) that support the notion of analyzing all parties associated with the event.

As per the link(s); those that were originally considered the abusers were determined to be victims at a later date... Is that the case on this example?.. Highly unlikely; but that does not justify an exemption to any one that is involved in the investigation.

If they're guilty, and she's a victim, saying she holds responsibility is not 'asking questions'. It's assigning blame to a woman, for having been raped. Be honest about that.

No it's not an assignment of blame or responsibility on the victim... The fact that a court will actively seek to understand the entire story that detail the events leading up to; during and after the crime is fundamental to the legal process.

 

[CDNBear]

I've seen crime prevention attempt to address behaviour with people. "Do this to prevent that.", but I can't think of a time I've seen the law or insurance go after victims of crime, to hold them responsible for having been victimized.

A family gets a call in the middle of the night, it's their eldest daughter, she's had enough of her abusive boyfriend.

They go get her and bring her home.

At 2am he arrives and sets fire to their home, with them in it.

They escape, barely.

He's charged with 5 counts of attempted murder, and arson.

Her insurance company pays up, then dumps her.

Subsequent insurance companies, have given quotes no less than double her original premiums.

ok...... what if it WAS consensual to BEGIN with?

It was consensual.

does that make it any less rape?

Well ya.

As soon as it becomes non consensual it is is rape.

When does it become non consenual?

To the best of my knowledge, mistakes by the victim of a crime don't have ramifications in criminal jurisprudence.

They most certainly do.

If you are attacked, but go beyond reasonable force while defending yourself, you can and likely will be charged.

 

[lone wolf]

What IS age of consent?

 

[Goober]

Tragic is an understatement, and the reason why so many kept quiet, and continue to keep quiet is evidenced in this very trial and surrounding happenings, and the attitudes of some on this very forum. It's beyond disgusting.

Whose attitudes? And what posts are you referring to? Are you implying that a member (s) believes she brought this upon herself?

 

[DaSleeper]

Looks like I will have to re-read this whole thread to find out how it morphed from an OP discussing the integrity of the press..............to several posters discussing each other's integrity..........................................



Naah.........not a chance8O

 

[Goober]

When does it become non consenual?

They most certainly do.

If you are attacked, but go beyond reasonable force while defending yourself, you can and likely will be charged.

Passed out qualifies as not being about to provide consent. Regardless if it was consensual at some time prior to that. Is that not the law?