Are Universities and Free Speech Compatible???

[SLM]

Shutting down free speech is wrong.

Exactly. That above all else should be the underlying message anyone takes out of this particular situation.

But when does the right wing ever acknowledge that its side does it more often than anyone else? Even Walter wasn't aware of the Tea Bagger misconduct even though it was done all over the country. Why wasn't this reported in every media outlet so that everyone would know and be outraged by it?

Go to any right wing radio show - the moment anyone dares to disagree with their opinions they get called every manner of insult imaginable. If it is true that Democrats have more registered members than Republicans, shouldn't that majority be reflected on radio shows?

It is most unfortunate that anybody got shut down in that meeting reported in the OP. But that is only one of the few times the right wing got suppressed. The other side gets suppressed on air and all over this country every day. I don't know the situation in Canada so I won't even try to argue one way or the other there. Was that suppression ''unacceptable'' as you say? Of course it was. As is the same type of suppression we see every day all over the USA.

Okay, look, I'll be perfectly honest here. I don't follow minute details of U.S. politics, I can barely stomach the rhetoric spewed by politicians and the devotees up here. So I can't speak to any situation that you're referencing. But I can tell you this, and I'm not saying this to be argumentative or combative. When I read these passages:

But when does the right wing ever acknowledge that its side does it more often than anyone else?

It is most unfortunate that anybody got shut down in that meeting reported in the OP. But that is only one of the few times the right wing got suppressed.

What comes across to me is "yeah it may be bad but the other guy is so much worse". And that reads to me like an excuse or justification. That's akin to saying that the other guy is wallowing in the mud, fighting dirty, and it's the most repugnant and disgusting thing you've ever encountered, therefore at the first opportunity you'll do the same to him.

The reason that none of this elevates beyond this level is that no one takes a stand to elevate it.

Therefore, let us apply the same level of outrage against all forms of suppression - the types you see every day on radio as well as these isolated events. A uniform standard is the best solution to this problem rather than selectivity.

Do you honestly think that I don't or wouldn't take a stand at the same disgraceful conduct in a flipped scenario situation? Because I would. Attempting to silence anyone is wrong. Argue against what they are saying, debate them, whatever you feel you have to do but free speech is or should be free for all.

As far as the media; radio, television, print, they are in it to make money, not to display integrity. Integrity is not pointing out the flaws with the opposite side of the debate, but it's acknowledging and pointing out the flaws on your own side.

 

[Walter]

Shutting down free speech is wrong. But when does the right wing ever acknowledge that its side does it more often than anyone else? Even Walter wasn't aware of the Tea Bagger misconduct even though it was done all over the country. Why wasn't this reported in every media outlet so that everyone would know and be outraged by it?

Therefore, let us apply the same level of outrage against all forms of suppression - the types you see every day on radio as well as these isolated events. A uniform standard is the best solution to this problem rather than selectivity.

You misrepresent me. I thanked you for the link but the link only showed what we already knew; the tea party disrupted meetings to get their opinions heard, however they did not prevent anyone else from speaking their mind. As for talk radio you obviously don't listen to Rush or Sean Hannity; both of these hosts will let lefties ramble on and on and then hang the lefties with the rope the lefties have just made for themselves.

 

[EagleSmack]

You misrepresent me. I thanked you for the link but the link only showed what we already knew; the tea party disrupted meetings to get their opinions heard, however they did not prevent anyone else from speaking their mind. As for talk radio you obviously don't listen to Rush or Sean Hannity; both of these hosts will let lefties ramble on and on and then hang the lefties with the rope the lefties have just made for themselves.

You have to understand... conservatives wanting to be heard is a disruption to free speech for the libs in the US. Denying conservatives a platform to be heard is US libs definition of free speech.

Amazing that he used that as an example.

It is impossible for him to differentiate between the OPs clip to his examples.

 

[petros]

In all the yelling, I never did figure out who was pro or who was con.

 

[Cliffy]

Wee! Dose lefties an dose righties, la, dey are bote so up dere derier dat it amaze, la, dat dey can breed de hair, eh!

 

[petros]

Hands off my uterus!

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Ick.

 

[Corduroy]

What? Protests aren't free speech now?

 

[Colpy]

What? Protests aren't free speech now?

Of course protests are free speech.....and your rights extend to the very point where mine are denied.

The idiot dressed as a vulva could have chosen any one of a thousand ways to protest that did not deny Woodworth his right to speak.

Protest was not his goal, suppression of speech was......

 

[damngrumpy]

The answer in short is no but unfortunately ignorance cuts both ways.
These people should have let the speaker say his piece no argument.
Those who are shouting lefites and condemning them should also be
listening to the public discourse of others on the not so left side of the
public debate.
Anne Coulter and Rush,not to mention the Donald are soothsayers of
doom for the right wing. Their ignorance is a perfect match for these
idiots.
I have been at functions where the right was the aggressor as well so it
is not a left right issues as much as its an issue lack of education period.
How can you condemn a speaker when you didn't hear what they had
to say?
The problem is more and more people don't give a damn what people
have to say unless they agree with them. They don't want to hear an
opinion that is different than that of the crowd. Unfortunately it cuts both
ways on a myriad of topics.
In reality what we are watching is the slow undoing of society, but then
some will shout that down too.

 

[gopher]

SLM,

What comes across to me is "yeah it may be bad but the other guy is so much worse". And that reads to me like an excuse or justification.

Excuse or justification for what? Maybe in your mind but the truth is otherwise. Town meetings are supposed to be open with all sides being given a chance to speak unimpeded. As shown in the link previously presented the Tea Baggers did not allow anyone who strayed from their warped ideas to speak. No surprise since right wingers are always under the delusion that they are always correct and everybody else is always wrong. But who won the election? Which party has more registered members? Obviously these Tea Baggers are in the minority - a highly vocal and deluded one. Nothing more - which means that their self justification, like that of their defenders, was utterly baseless. Silence in the face of such delusionalism is tantamount too accession. And I'm not buying into that.

Attempting to silence anyone is wrong. Argue against what they are saying, debate them, whatever you feel you have to do but free speech is or should be free for all.

As far as the media; radio, television, print, they are in it to make money, not to display integrity. Integrity is not pointing out the flaws with the opposite side of the debate, but it's acknowledging and pointing out the flaws on your own side.

Integrity? Spiro Agnew became famous for his challenges to the news media in which he claimed they were too liberal and failed to present the truth. In the end he wound up in jail. Dan Rather was accused of lying in front of the cameras and was fired. The "fair and balanced" Fox network lies every night and they are applauded as if they had integrity which they don't.

As always, apply the same standards and no one will question you. If Rather has got get fired then so should the right wing media liars in Fox who, ironically, claim to be a bastion of moral integrity.


------------------------------

Walter,

As for talk radio you obviously don't listen to Rush or Sean Hannity

I don't bother with Hannity but I have quoted Limbaugh on this forum previously. Obviously you missed that as well.


Right wingers disrupt Town Hall meetings:


More 'Town Halls Gone Wild': Angry Far Right Protesters Disrupt Events With 'Incomprehensible' Yelling | ThinkProgress


This is what some delusional right wingers consider free speech - in their hallucinations, they believe they have exclusive rights to disrupt and to stop free expression. But God help anyone who dares to complain.

Grumpy,

In reality what we are watching is the slow undoing of society, but then
some will shout that down too.

If you listen to Ed Schultz's show or that of Tom Hannemann, you would see that both allow far more time to right wingers to vent their spiel even though they have much more outlets than do political lefties.

Here in the Twin Cities even though the majority of the people are Democrats and liberal, every talk show is right wing and they never allow anyone other than their type to speak on air. You don't want to believe it? Fine. But it remains a fact whether anyone choose to believe it or not. Everyone has the option of listening online to see for themselves.

As you say, a society that only allows one side to speak & control all manner of expression as this one does in favor of the far right is indeed one that is destined to decline. We saw that in Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and Soviet Russia. The Tea Baggers, Koch Brothers, Rush Limbaugh, Fox, and others need to understand that if the ship sinks they will go down with it just as badly as everyone else. And since they are the ones in control of the media, it is they who need to step aside, allow free speech to all, and to allow even exchanges of ideas. This especially in view of the fact that they do not represent a majority in the USA.

 

[DaSleeper]

The last two posts are a perfect example of some ideologues propensity to deflect when others like them are caught with their pants down.

 

[taxslave]

When it comes to free speech the left is way worse than anyone on the extreme right

 

[captain morgan]

When it comes to free speech the left is way worse than anyone on the extreme right

That's what happens when you pretend to be speaking on behalf of an entire population... They are always doing it for the betterment of mankind

 

[DaSleeper]

Actually it's their pompass attitude of we know best what's good for you and we have the consensus....
As bad as the fire and brimstone preacher on the right that preach "Praise the lord and pass the collection plate"
They both have their hands in your pocket.....

 

[captain morgan]

Actually it's their pompass attitude of we know best what's good for you and we have the consensus....
As bad as the fire and brimstone preacher on the right that preach "Praise the lord and pass the collection plate"
They both have their hands in your pocket.....

At least the evangalical preacher knows what he/she is doing.. Morons that dress up as uterus' aren't smart enough to try and leverage that platform to swindle cash... They are true believers, no different than those that strap bombs to their chests and run into a crowd

 

[Corduroy]

Of course protests are free speech.....and your rights extend to the very point where mine are denied.

The idiot dressed as a vulva could have chosen any one of a thousand ways to protest that did not deny Woodworth his right to speak.

Protest was not his goal, suppression of speech was......

How was he denied the right to speak?

 

[EagleSmack]

How was he denied the right to speak?

So, he should have continued speaking while he was surrounded by people screaming and dropping the C-word? That is acceptable?

 

[Colpy]

How was he denied the right to speak?

I think I see what you are getting at. Security asked him not to speak.

Should he have insisted??

Probably.....only those who exercise their rights actually have rights.

But I'm not sure he would have been allowed to continue anyway.....which means that the politically shy security force was simply the tool used by the Pink ***** of Passion to shut down the speech.

Now, I've spent most of my career in security, and personally, I think the vulva should have been escorted off campus, using whatever force was necessary....but I'm pretty old school, not particularly risk-adverse.

 

[Corduroy]

So, he should have continued speaking while he was surrounded by people screaming and dropping the C-word? That is acceptable?

I think I see what you are getting at. Security asked him not to speak.

Should he have insisted??

Probably.....only those who exercise their rights actually have rights.

But I'm not sure he would have been allowed to continue anyway.....which means that the politically shy security force was simply the tool used by the Pink ***** of Passion to shut down the speech.

Now, I've spent most of my career in security, and personally, I think the vulva should have been escorted off campus, using whatever force was necessary....but I'm pretty old school, not particularly risk-adverse.

When it comes to freedom of speech, in the legal sense, universities are a grey area. Anyone should have the right to express an opinion in a public space, but should the state also provide them with a microphone and a podium? Universities are quasi-public space, and they invite people to come and express their opinions, provide them with venues and sound equipment etc. They don't have to do any of that. This man's freedom of speech was not suppressed because the university or some protesters didn't want him to speak with facilities the university provided. The man can still express himself. He is not in jailed or punished. He, like all of us, simply doesn't have the right to a university as a venue.