U.S. summer a global warming preview, scientists say

[lone wolf]

I bow to your greatness, oh humble one :roll:

 

[EagleSmack]

Pollution and climate change are directly connected. The environment does have the capacity to heal itself; and the rate of recovery will depend on the type of damage being done to it. In this case, the earth can replenish the ozone depleted by man-made pollutants; however it cannot be restored while we continue to spew chemical emissions into the atmosphere. Unless we reduce the pollution, the water temperature will continue to rise, which will have inevitable consequences. Still, we refuse to act, and go about oblivious to what is happening. Indeed, one would think that man had but small brains for refusing to see the cause of his own destruction.

No. I am against pollution and preserving the environment. I recycle, conserve water, I hate to see litter, I support the NPS with donations and support the preservation of historic sites and places. I support the setting aside of unihabitted areas for wildlife, etc.

I'm just not onboard with the GW activists.

 

[coldstream]

The human link to climate change isn't based in supposition, it's based on hard fact.

- We know for a fact that massive amounts of ice cover on the planet are disappearing worldwide, this is strong evidence for a global warming event.
- We know that the timing of the seasons has changed in recent decades with spring coming earlier and winter latter.
- The has been a measured increase in atmospheric humidity which has often resulted and contributed to record flooding on a global scale.
- The temperature profile of the atmosphere is consistent with an increase of human generated GHGs.
and there's much more.

If the fundamental science indicates that an increase of concentration of GHGs will impede the release of longwave radiation of the kind emitted by the Earth, resulting in a global rise in average temperature to compensate for the imbalance and if real world obsevarations also corroborate this then how is it incredible to accept the very real possibility if not probability of human generated climate change.

By stating the opposite you need to contradict some of the fundamental principles modern science and society is founded on. That's neither rational or responsible.

Absolute Claptrap.. NONE of these things are happening.. not on a Global basis. The reason you hear so little about the polar ice these days is that in Antarctica the ice sheets are advancing. The doomsday scenarios of the melting of ice to the North pole has not occurred.. per the 'climate' models predictions.

There has been NO global rise in ocean levels.. and there has been no consistent rise in earth's temperatures except by the rigged results of the AGW conspiracy since the end of the 'Little Ice Age' in the mid 19th century.. well before the industrial era. The fact is even the measurement of a 'global mean' temperature is beyond current scientific technology.. so they just make it up.

These are the hard scientific facts of carbon contributions of human activity to the atmosphere. The amount of suspended carbon in oceans, land biomass and atmosphere is 40,000 billion tons, all in some form of continuous circulation.. of which a grand total of 6 billion tons can be said to be of human origins. And of course carbon itself is a fractional element of the total atmosphere, about .039%, that's 4 parts per 10,000 of other elements. The most minor variation in the natural circulation of carbon.. and other elements.. completely overwhelms that of human origin.. to the point of insignificance.

Even if they could prove there was any warming at all.. which all the evidence indicates there is not.. they have no way of proving it is due to carbon.. and especially human emitions of carbon. They have no idea what caused the minor climate periods such as the 'Little Ice Age'.. or the major climate epochs.. such as the last Ice Age. The fact that they make these claims, knowing they cannot substantiate them.. speaks to their character and fanaticism.

Do the math.. and compare the 'evidence' to the extraordinary claims of the AGW establishment. A sensible person would come to the conclusion they were being fooled... and would then look with critical skepticism as to what the REAL motivations and agenda of its proponents was.

 

[Tonington]

Absolute Claptrap.. NONE of these things are happening.. not on a Global basis.

Claptrap? Ice cover decreasing:
Increasing rates of ice mass loss from the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets revealed by GRACE

Seasonal timing changes (phenology):
http://eebweb.arizona.edu/courses/Ecol206/Walther%20et%20al%20Nature%202002.pdf
http://129.125.2.51/biologie/onderz...ogie/publications/pdf_jaar2009/pdf1Both09.pdf
And here's a recent paper, showing that experiments are under-predicting observed phenological changes:
http://www.planta.cn/forum/files_pl...nological_responses_to_climate_change_203.pdf

Humidity increasing:
http://www.cccma.ec.gc.ca/papers/ngillett/PDFS/nature06207.pdf
Identification of human-induced changes in atmospheric moisture content

Temperature profile of the atmosphere (fingerprint of enhanced greenhouse effect):
RSS / MSU and AMSU Data / Description

Look at the trends for the satellite data. As you go higher into the atmosphere, the trend lowers until it actually becomes negative in the stratosphere. More heat trapped in the lower atmosphere is a clear indication of an enhanced greenhouse effect. There's no denying that.

Claptrap indeed. Try reading something for a change coldstream. Learn a thing or two.

 

[taxslave]

What an absurd thing to say. Anything pollutes, damages, if there is too much of it. We are putting carbon into the air faster than it has happened at any time in the past that scientists are aware of. This is causing the warming that is happening faster than it has happened also. Pollution is evident.

That would make oxygen a pollutant. Get much above 24% O2 for an extended period of time and if you do not end up dead you will wish you had.

 

[Redmonton_Rebel]

Ok... the climate is changing (as it always has).

Everyone carry on about your day per usual.

That's not the concern, the concern is the rate and magnitude of the change.

We understand the pivotal role that carbon dioxide plays in influencing the Earth's radiative balance, without any CO2 in the atmosphere the planet would be too cold to support life. We have also established from experimental and geological study that in the past the atmospheric CO2 has been closely linked with periods of extreme warming on Earth, in the end Permian case a warming that killed virtually all life on the planet.

And yet somehow there's a disconnect with many people between rapidly increasing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere and significant changes in the global climate. We're probably introducing carbon dioxide into the atmosphere at a much quicker rate than during the end Permian extinction which occured over about 1,000,000 years in several pulses and probably involved the release of methane clathrates in periodic "death burps". It's almost a certainty that at some point unrestricted human emissions of greenhouse gases will have the same effect, how is that an issue to ignore.

By the time we've crossed one of these tipping points it will be too late to do anything about it, the only real question is where they lie. The smart bet is to not push the limits, the cost of changing direction is far less than the cost of not doing anything.

 

[Tonington]

That would make oxygen a pollutant. Get much above 24% O2 for an extended period of time and if you do not end up dead you will wish you had.

Yeah, it sure can be a pollutant. How about oxygen when it's in the O3 form? You don't want to inhale that stuff. A pollutant isn't called a pollutant based on it's name, if it causes deleterious effects, it's a pollutant. Fresh water can pollute a salt water well. Salt water can pollute a fresh water well. Doesn't mean that lakes and oceans are themselves a pollutant. Context matters.

 

[Redmonton_Rebel]

Absolute Claptrap.. NONE of these things are happening.. not on a Global basis. The reason you hear so little about the polar ice these days is that in Antarctica the ice sheets are advancing. The doomsday scenarios of the melting of ice to the North pole has not occurred.. per the 'climate' models predictions.

Extreme Ice Survey :: Home Page

This site alone shows how far off base you are.

It's been well established that the cryosphere(the snow and ice cover on Earth) is melting. Researchers like Lonnie Thompson who've extracted and studied ice cores from across the globe often in inaccessable places like mountian ice caps report rapid melting of glaciers, ice shelves and ice sheets clearly state that the ice cover is retreating.

If you look at his one photo of the Columbia glacier in Alaska, it's lost over 1,300 feet in thickness and retreated about 10 miles in the last 30 years.

Extreme Ice Survey :: Columbia Glacier, Alaska

The permafrost is also meltting in the Northern hemisphere.

Thawing permafrost sinks buildings, hikes costs in North - North - CBC News

In the Arctic, the ground is melting beneath northerners’ feet.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/17/s...ls-climate-change-worries.html?pagewanted=all

Temperatures are warming across much of that region, primarily, scientists believe, because of the rapid human release of greenhouse gases. Permafrost is warming, too. Some has already thawed, and other signs are emerging that the frozen carbon may be becoming unstable.

Russian Permafrost Melt - BBC - YouTube

BBC News - Warm ocean driving Antarctic ice loss

Most of the ice being lost from Antarctica is going as a result of warm water eating the fringes of the continent, scientists say.

The researchers used a satellite laser to measure the thinning occurring on ice shelves - the floating tongues of ice that jut out from the land.

The team's analysis found the shelves' shrinkage could not be attributed simply to warmer air.

Rather, it is warm water getting under the floating ice to melt it from below.

This is leading to a weakening of the shelves, permitting more and more ice to drain from the continent's interior through tributary glaciers.

Evidence Of Global Warming Reported To Senate Hearing

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- An Ohio State University glaciologist told Congress Feb. 27 that he has found evidence of unprecedented global warming in some remote areas of the planet.

Ice core samples he drilled from ice caps in remote areas of South America, on the Tibetan Plateau of China, and in Kirghizia, in the former Soviet Union, reveal recent and rapid warming in the tropics and subtropics.

These, coupled with an unexpected 160-meter (525 feet) retreat of a glacier at the edge of a Peruvian ice cap over the last decade, suggest that the recent warming has been substantial.

"The evidence is very clear that warming is taking place," explained Lonnie G. Thompson, an associate professor of geological sciences and research scientist at the Byrd Polar Research Center at Ohio State.

Greenland ice loss continues to accelerate

The average mass loss from Greenland over 2002 to 2011 is 225 billion tonnes per year. This rate of mass loss has been increasing over the last decade. There was also an unusually large amount of mass loss during the 2010 summer due to extensive melting of snow and ice.

World's glaciers melting at accelerated pace, leading scientists say | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Thompson, in a conference call with reporters, would not be drawn into making specific predictions on the future of the Himalayan glaciers. He said only about 800 of the 46,000 glaciers in the Himalayas are being monitored by scientists. Data from those under observation suggests that 95% of glaciers are in retreat, but it is still unclear how much mass the glaciers are losing without knowing the depth of the affected places. Scientists still do not have enough of that data, he said. It was also unclear that Himalayan glaciers were thinning at a faster pace than in other parts of the world.

It's well established that ice cover worldwide is melting in some areas quite rapidly like with Alaskas Columbia glacier.

Let me tell you about Lil sacrifices.

I happen to be part of a design team that made Green Housing. It was insisted upon and everyone was so very excited... until they moved in.



"It's too dark in public areas"

Well the lighting is "green" lighting... nothing we can do about it.

"Something is wrong with the water pressure... it barely comes out no matter how high you turn the handle"

Well... that is the new way. There is nothing wrong with the pressure. You will get wet in the shower but the water isn't going to blast out... not ever. The pressure is set for everyone.

"We can't change the temps"

You can, the temps can be set between 67 and 72... no more no less.

Saving the environment is a little tougher than they thought.

And in my VERY Liberal state of Massachusetts the Beautiful People who are always telling other's how to live are flipping out because of Cape Wind. Cape Wind is a proposed windmill farm of Hyannis... where the wealthy go to yacht. The Kennedy's have been fighting it from Day 1. They want to save the world and fight Global Warming... but not when their yachting views are affected. Not in their back yard.

None of that changes the fact that business as usual carries some very serious risks. On the scale of the worst case scenario from climate change, there simply will be no humans left and few other species besides. On the other side we could be looking at several years of lost profits as the world converts to a low carbon energy model. Lost profits on the one hand and lost planet on the other those are the wagers.

 

[lone wolf]

How do you propose to feed people with your "cold turkey" shut down of all CO2-producing machinery?

 

[Redmonton_Rebel]

How do you propose to feed people with your "cold turkey" shut down of all CO2-producing machinery?

It's a phase-out not a shut down.

You replace the most polluting sources first like coal and tar sands first with the alternative sources which are plentiful and would create a much more dependable energy market in the long term.

Alternative sources could include:
- Nuclear
- Wind/tidal
- biomass
- geothermal
- solar

 

[skookumchuck]

I seem to remember "someone" stating that the "melting Arctic icecap" was reducing plankton.............
Swirling currents fuel huge ocean blooms - Technology & science - Science - OurAmazingPlanet - msnbc.com

 

[Redmonton_Rebel]

Arctic krill are closely associated with the pack ice edge.

 

[WJW]

No, it is the krill populations that are declining. See articles at:
http://www.fbbva.es/TLFU/dat/02SMETACEKSEPARATA.pdf
Antarctic Krill Provide Carbon Sink In Southern Ocean

 

[Cabbagesandking]

I bow to your greatness, oh humble one :roll:

You can do better than that! Can't you?

 

[Tonington]

I seem to remember "someone" stating that the "melting Arctic icecap" was reducing plankton.............
Swirling currents fuel huge ocean blooms - Technology & science - Science - OurAmazingPlanet - msnbc.com

That's the problem with memory. It can be fuzzy. It was actually Antarctic krill that was mentioned. Also, krill are quite different from diatomacious algae. Diatoms aren't as sensitive to ocean pH changes as a calcifying organism like krill.

 

[lone wolf]

You can do better than that! Can't you?

Cruisin' for a bruisin' are ya?

I'd suggest your arrogance makes you top heavy ... but you'd flip

 

[WJW]

I did reply with attached articles regarding the decline of Antarctic krill; however the moderators have not yet approved the post.

 

[skookumchuck]

I may have misremembered but the point remains.
Have Krill ever declined before? Have Plankton ever bloomed more than the usual before?

 

[taxslave]

It's a phase-out not a shut down.

You replace the most polluting sources first like coal and tar sands first with the alternative sources which are plentiful and would create a much more dependable energy market in the long term.

Alternative sources could include:
- Nuclear
- Wind/tidal
- biomass
- geothermal
- solar

Nuclear is a non starter in much of NIMBY land.
Wind and Tidal only permitted if it does not obstruct the view or playgrounds of rich greenies.
Same goes for Biomass. Good luck getting the necessary permits to set up a hog fuel or garbage fired generator near any city.

 

[WJW]

Antarctic Krill Provide Carbon Sink In Southern Ocean