Oil Sand Myths

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
4,929
21
38
Alberta/N.W.T./Sask/B.C
You mean like your agenda?

You may speak from experience, but you aren't that far off the Rebel in some respects.

That isn't meant as an insult so much as an observation.
I work for myself,I could care less about the big oil companies.My main job is enviro reclamation,I'm the last guy on that ROW before the inspector signs off on it.
I just hate seeing bs about the oilsands from some who prolly havent even seen them.

My only agenda is trying to try keep the fear mongering to a minimum with facts and experience.

I can work pretty well anywhere I want to in western Canada and the Arctic.
That's because I dont toe any company lines but my own.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
I work for myself,I could care less about the big oil companies.My main job is enviro reclamation,I'm the last guy on that ROW before the inspector signs off on it.
I just hate seeing bs about the oilsands from some who prolly havent even seen them.

My only agenda is trying to try keep the fear mongering to a minimum with facts and experience.
I can appreciate that, truly I can.

But when you make comments about trucking in your own water, like you made to Ten Penny the other night, you sound like Rebel.

When you start babbling about people should be dead in Alberta, if fracking was bad. You look like Rebel.

I'm a proponent of sound environmental practice. As well as being a proponent of not causing society at large to devolve into mayhem at the pumps, because someone like Rebel was allowed to man the helm.

There is an educated, informed and sane medium to be had here. It's vitally important we find it and do what needs to be done.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
4,929
21
38
Alberta/N.W.T./Sask/B.C
I just dont see peeps hurting here where fracking is taking place,and im used to mountain water so I usually fill the jugs at home.I dont see peeps hurting here either where we have allmost a dozen open pit abandoned strip mines right on the continental divide.

The headwaters for a lot of Canada.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
I just dont see peeps hurting here where fracking is taking place,and im used to mountain water so I usually fill the jugs at home.I dont see peeps hurting here either where we have allmost a dozen open pit abandoned strip mines right on the continental divide.

The headwaters for a lot of Canada.
I already posted a link with an extraordinary amount of complaints about fracking.

Open pit mines, are like open wounds. Sometimes environmental protection is as simple as aesthetics.

And lets not ignore the fact that just because people aren't being overtly or acutely/negatively affected, damage isn't being done.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
4,929
21
38
Alberta/N.W.T./Sask/B.C
I already posted a link with an extraordinary amount of complaints about fracking.

Open pit mines, are like open wounds. Sometimes environmental protection is as simple as aesthetics.

And lets not ignore the fact that just because people aren't being overtly or acutely/negatively affected, damage isn't being done.
I have been doing up a nice article about all the abandoned open pits here in the crowsnest pass.
They have been here since I moved here in the 60's.
Kids swim in a few of them,at one time Vancouver wanted to ship their garbage to tent mountain strip mine near the bc alta border on the coal trains going back,not realizing thats their headwaters too.
I'll post it once I get it tweaked because their is no reclamation here from anyone.

The mines got all their old tipples and workings declared historic sites and now you cant touch them.

Frikken eyesores
 

Redmonton_Rebel

Electoral Member
May 13, 2012
442
0
16
A question not in argument.

I've rallied for environmental protection, since before it was cool.

You could have fooled me.

But the people in that world would.

We can miss the comfort that a consumer based economy provides, or allow things to degrade to the point where the very conditions for life are in serious jeopardy.

Is that like the ideology you're locked into?

Basing my views on Physics, Geology, Biology, Climatology, etc... isn't ideology, it's science, the most powerful tool we have these days for understanding the natural world.

Dude, I don't necessarily disagree with your premise. I disagree with your use of hyperbole and BS. Which is counterproductive.

I've only said it at least a dozen times now.
Why is it only you and Cabbagefarts can't seem to understand that?

So you want respect from people you show none to?

It's a two way street, I spent more time than I wanted going around in circles with you on another thread. There are people here who do nothing but try and draw people into circular arguements to shut them down. I wasn't sure if you were one of them...I'm still not.

The situation is serious and getting worse every day, if we wait until it's obvious to everybody that something needs to change for our benefit then it's most likely going to be too late to do anything about it. There are people here who seem to want that.

Maybe you should reread my posts, and actually read them this time.

I've taken you off my ignore list and I'll reread some of your stuff. I won't play silly games about a subject that should be completely above this kind of trivialization.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
You could have fooled me.
No doubt, you don't come off as all that bright. Knowledgeable and intelligent about the science involved, but not that bright over all.

We can miss the comfort that a consumer based economy provides, or allow things to degrade to the point where the very conditions for life are in serious jeopardy.
Dude, you're talking to a guy that longs for the days I lived off the land with my traditional First Nations Grandparents.

The reality of life is completely different though.

Basing my views on Physics, Geology, Biology, Climatology, etc... isn't ideology, it's science, the most powerful tool we have these days for understanding the natural world.
That would be true if your views were expressed based on the facts those areas generated.

Given the claims you've made that I showed evidence to the contrary, your claim is false.

So you want respect from people you show none to?
Nope, didn't ask for any, lol. Which of course only goes to show you have a serious comprehension issue.

It's a two way street, I spent more time than I wanted going around in circles with you on another thread.
We only went in circles, because you don't like having your claims (Not science) shown to be false.

There are people here who do nothing but try and draw people into circular arguements to shut them down.
You're one of them.
I wasn't sure if you were one of them...I'm still not.
Oh I game for anything. Discussion, debating, arguing, PWN'ing ideologues, and down right flame wars.

That's how I roll.
I won't play silly games about a subject that should be completely above this kind of trivialization.
The BS and hyperbole you use to push your agenda, does more to trivialize the topic than anything the denies have said.

In fact, it's like the cause of a lot of the deniers angst.
 
Last edited:

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
1,041
0
36
Ontario
"Cabbagefarts" speaking, Bear. I am absolutely l, stunned by such a clever play on names. Oscar Wilde's posthumous reputation i in danger.

You silly twit! As if that sort of thing enhances your 'arguments.'

However, and by the by, let us know about some of this hyperbole and lies. Why don't we get down to brass tacks. You are a fraud and I think that it is time to expose you. So show us your scientific support for your "moderate" views and "sane" consideration of this.

So far, in all these threads in which we have crossed swords - you need to get one that is not broken at the hilt, you have cited one study. That, as I showed you, is a long discredited one. You have produced nothing at all that gives any credibility to your supposed knowledge of this subject and your self professed intellectual superiority.

Try it!
 

Redmonton_Rebel

Electoral Member
May 13, 2012
442
0
16
I think I saw on one of Cabbagesandking's posts that a climate change denial troll here was claiming it would take millenia for the Greenland ice sheet to melt.

This is an example of faith-based science not the real thing.

Some effects that will almost certainly make the Greenland ice sheet disappear on the scale of a few centuries not millenia:

- Zwally Effect:
Ice flow at a location in the equilibrium zone of the west-central Greenland Ice Sheet accelerates above the midwinter average rate during periods of summer melting. The near coincidence of the ice acceleration with the duration of surface melting, followed by deceleration after the melting ceases, indicates that glacial sliding is enhanced by rapid migration of surface meltwater to the ice-bedrock interface. Interannual variations in the ice acceleration are correlated with variations in the intensity of the surface melting, with larger increases accompanying higher amounts of summer melting. The indicated coupling between surface melting and ice-sheet flow provides a mechanism for rapid, large-scale, dynamic responses of ice sheets to climate warming.

Surface Melt-Induced Acceleration of Greenland Ice-Sheet Flow

- Darkening Ice:
In the past, the bright surface of the Greenland Ice Sheet reflected well over half of the sunlight that fell on it. This reflectiveness helped keep the ice sheet stable, as less absorbed sunlight meant less heating and melting. In the past decade, however, satellites have observed a decrease in Greenland’s reflectiveness. This darker surface now absorbs more sunlight, which accelerates melting.
The map above shows the difference between the amount of sunlight Greenland reflected in the summer of 2011 versus the average percent it reflected between 2000 to 2006. Virtually the entire ice sheet shows some change, with some areas reflecting close to 20 percent less light than a decade ago. The map is based on observations from the Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS) instruments on NASA’s Terra and Aqua satellites. It was produced as part of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Arctic Report Card.
Climate scientists have long expected that Earth’s polar regions will become less reflective as global temperatures rise. Rising temperatures melt snow and ice, and the uncovered terrain—water, vegetation, bare ground—is darker and absorbs more sunlight. The loss of reflectiveness then amplifies the initial warming.

Greenland

- As ice sheets melt they also decrease in altitude with higher average air temperatures and faster melting rates. Also most of the precipitation falls as rain at lower altitudes dramatically increasing the mass balance of the ice sheet.

- When the Arctic ice cap totally melts in summer, which it may do by the end of this decade, then the entire Arctic environment is going to undergo a rapid warming as most of the sunlight that was reflected back into space will now be absorbed by ocean water.

Ice sheets aren't inert blocks of ice that slowly melt from the outside in, they're dynamic environments that can undergo rapid change in response to climatic shifts, the more CO2 we emit and the faster we drive the climate into a warmer state the faster the ice sheets will respond. Almost certainly sea level rise is going to be much greater than the three or so feet predicted by the IPCC in 2007. It could be ten feet or more by 2100 and dozens of feet higher within a couple of centuries. Depending on how quickly the East Antarctic sheet responds this could be several hundred feet higher.
 
Last edited:

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
"Cabbagefarts" speaking, Bear. I am absolutely l, stunned by such a clever play on names. Oscar Wilde's posthumous reputation i in danger.
Fix the serious grammar issues in that and get back to me.

You silly twit! As if that sort of thing enhances your 'arguments.'
Speaking of twits, I'm not presenting an argument. I'm simply trolling ideological trolls. I've only made that clear a half dozen times or more.

I'm not surprised you haven't been able to grasp that.
However, and by the by, let us know about some of this hyperbole and lies.
All the BS and hyperbole you two stuff in your posts, that has little to do with the science of climate and more to do with your ideologically driven agendas, that I've proven wrong.

You are a fraud and I think that it is time to expose you.
Says the fraud that runs or just thumps his chest when asked questions about his claims.
So show us your scientific support for your "moderate" views and "sane" consideration of this.
Can you be more specific?
So far, in all these threads in which we have crossed swords - you need to get one that is not broken at the hilt, you have cited one study. That, as I showed you, is a long discredited one. You have produced nothing at all that gives any credibility to your supposed knowledge of this subject and your self professed intellectual superiority.
1, I haven't disputed that the climate is changing.
2, I've cited more than one study to disprove yours and Rebel's asinine ideologically driven hyperbole and BS that has nothing to do with science or facts.
3, The only one that has claimed intellectual superiority, is you. Although you haven't posted much in the way of evidence of it.

Try what? Try asking you to expand on your claims of tanks being massed on Quebec borders? Try asking you to expand on whether or not the Mohawks said they wanted to stay in Canada in 1980?

I already tried having a discussion with you. You aren't incapable of it.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
And lets not ignore the fact that just because people aren't being overtly or acutely/negatively affected, damage isn't being done.

That's definitely true. In fact acute sickness can be much easier to treat than chronic issues. Chronic illness causes more death than acute.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
No, you're simply trolling ideological trolls.
FIFY.

Post #1605240 - Re: Oil Sand Myths Bad Redmonton_Rebel

 

Redmonton_Rebel

Electoral Member
May 13, 2012
442
0
16
If you're not posting on topic then you're just here to shut the real discussion down.

Any claims you might make to being even puke green are pure BS.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
If you're not posting on topic then you're just here to shut the real discussion down.
Nope. I'm just here trying to keep you ideologues honest.

Any claims you might make to being even puke green are pure BS.


You know how I know you're a butthurt ideologue?

The thousands of posts I've contributed pushing my agenda of environmental protection, across three (Maybe 4) web forums.