Oil Sand Myths
- Thread starter Redmonton_Rebel
- Start date
Your book failed in the second sentence.
Have you ever even seen the oilsands?
It's bitumen man,it floats on top of water
He shoots, he scores!
OMG OMG OMG OMG STEEEEEEAM!
Why? I can read the Weekly World News and get more truth.
OMG OMG OMG OMG STEEEEEEAM!
I've sunk em in the oilsands and I've sunk em in the Arctic building ice strips. lol!
Tracks froze solid in 30 seconds.Lots of fun.
130 feet deep here.
Tracks froze solid in 30 seconds.Lots of fun.
130 feet deep here.
Don't say we ALL need to read books that are obviously biased.
We ALL need to read books that are factual, and anything withe 'stupid' in the title is pointless to read. Although it's obvious that you have done so, and taken it to heart.
Most bitumens have SG of more than 1.0, so they don't float on water. Same as bunker C, it sinks. The lighter stuff will separate out and float, but R85 bitumen will sink.
it sure wasent sinking when I was wading in it,I was with Canadian dewatering and they not only had the whole TRO project they are the main dewatering guys at Suncor,All of their big pumps were sucking bitumen off the top of the settling ponds,theres not much bitumen on the bottom of the ponds,just MFT.As no raw product is pumped into the ponds all of Canadian dewatering dredges in each pond were pumping mainly MFT.
I know there was some bitumen in the ponds but you never saw it coming from the dredges but you would see it on the cutting head,Strictly mature fine tailings coming from the dredges.The bitumen would stick to anything metal.
Hope I never have to see that crap again.
They are factual.
I wasn't commenting on bitumen's specific gravity, I was commenting on its viscosity and how it's necessary to use conventional oil to just get it to upgrading facilities. In 2009 it was necessary to import 50,000 barrels of light crude into the tar sands just to get the bitumen out.
As for fear tactics, there are a lot of things to very be concerned about when it comes to climate change and the unregulated use of fossil fuels, especially the unconventional high carbon intensity ones like tar sands oil.
For starters it's already been established by researchers that isotherms(lines that indicate temperature averages for a region) are migrating polewards at about 3 kms a year while their associated biotas(lifeforms) are only following at about .8 kms a year. Meaning species in the equatorial side of the zone are being extirpated at a high rate as they lose their prefered habitat. With expected warming from CO2 already in the atmosphere we can expect to lose about 25-30% of species by the end of the century, the longer we emit high levels of CO2 the worse this becomes.
Another very serious issue is the tipping point for complete disintegration of the cryosphere(ice cover) on the planet which lies somewhere between 350 and 550ppm of atmospheric CO2, we're already at close to 400ppm and so are already in the danger zone.
Which is where this comes from:
http://www.350.org/
In the past rapid and massive climate change has been associated with some of the most significant ELEs(Extinction Level Events) like the K-T boundary event that saw the disappearance of the dinosaurs and about 75% of species on Earth. The massive asteroid or comet that hit near present day Mexico blasted gigatonnes of material into the atmosphere including large amounts of CO2 from the limestone deposits it hit. The earth went through rapid cooling as the aerosols blocked sunlight and when that cleared rapid warming from the high levels of CO2.
About 250 million years ago during the Permian extinction event large-scale volcanism pumped massive amounts of CO2 and sulfates into the atmosphere resulting in drastic climate change and the disappearnce of about 95% of lifeforms on the planet. This occured over millions of years as levels of these gases slowly built up, we're altering the atmospheres composition in a fraction of the time.
The Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum about 55 Mya was a period of increased volcanism as the Indian sub-continent drifted northwards into Aisa releasing large amounts of CO2 over tens of thousands of years. While there wasn't a large loss of species numbers, there was a large turnover of types, species had to rapidly adapt...that was over tens of thousands of years, we're pumping CO2 into the atmopshere at about 100 times greater a rate as the PETM event. Also sediments indicate that there was a large release of methane clathrates at that time. Due to current global climatic conditions there has been a large build up of methane clathrates over the last several million years creating what's refered to as a clathrate gun.
Clathrate gun hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So if we manage to melt all the ice on the globe, which is mostly near the poles and isostatic rebound raises the elevation of Antarctica and Greenland:
Post-glacial rebound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The gigatonnes of methane locked in ice could be released in a massive pulse dwarfing what we're already doing in terms of warming the global environment.
According to one NASA climatologist James Hansen, if we burn all available conventional fossil fuels we face a significant chance of a Venus Syndrome:
Runaway greenhouse effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If we convert and burn all available non-conventional fossil fuels it becomes a dead certainty. Whether he's right or not no one knows, but if it's even a 1000 to 1 shot then it would be criminal to even risk it. we're on the track to that condition as we speak with unlimited tar sands development.
Even if the worst case scenario doesn't come true, with industrial fishing and massive deforestation in conjunction with climate change we're simply stressing the biological systems that make complex life on this planet possible. The air we breathe, the water we need to drink and grow food and the food itself are the result of complex biological systems that are rapidly becoming seriously degraded.
We should be very concerned about the future we're creating for ourselves, we're already on the path to some of the worst aspects of climate change, forcing ahead projects like the oil sands at a time when we should be scaling down all forms of carbon intensive emissions or land use that destroys valuable carbon sinks and biodiversity is criminal.
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Not reaaly. I debunked your first two claims in only 5 minutes on Google.
Nope...
http://cwf.ca/pdf-docs/publications/WEB_Currents_Vol12_no2.pdf
The largest capital project on the planet...
The List: The World's Biggest Construction Projects | Foreign Policy
Fear tactics, don't read the friggin' books. They enable you to make all sorts of silly, and easily debunked claims.
A book that they are more likely to understand is: "The Idiots' Guide to Global Warming." I am told that it is quite accurate and readable.
I'm sure you were told.
Since the bulk of your posts read like regurgitated blog filler.
Wow! just Wow!
Someone should do a bit of real research on the oilsands,not sure where you get your info from but it's so fuc*ed up anyone who works there wouldnt even know where to start debating you.
You got that right. He doesn't seem to understand fluid mechanics or anything about petroleum, but that just makes him one of the masses.
Dewatering is a fun business, with some big dollar signs attached to it. We've got a bunch of pumps with Cat C15s on them dewatering open pit mines. Lots of money to be made, if you have the money to invest in the business.
Pump watch at Suncor,I didnt do it but they allways gave the newfy gals that job,same with shore watch on the dredges.
Then one day a leadhand took a video on his I phone of him getting a bj by the shore watch gal,he posted it on facebook,he got fired next day and hired a day later by Suncor as a leadhand.
Crazy place,best thing I ever saw was welcome to fort mac in my mirror.
What I'd like to know is what is our PM basing his climate change denial on, he obviously rejects the very well established science on this issue.
Is it because he doesn't understand the evidence?
It's very clear that the cryosphere is rapidly disappearing.
Extreme Ice Survey :: Home Page
That extreme weather events have increased both in frequency and magnitude.
That the oceans have undergone expansion and sea level rise.
Globally habitat has been changing for decades and more all consistent with physical principles laid down over centuries and supporting anthropogenic climate change, so where's the problem?
Is it because of his religious beliefs?
The Tyee – Understanding Harper's Evangelical Mission
So if Harper truly believes that industrial development has some religious basis and that he and his government can ignore mainstream science whenever they choose based on some highly questionable intrepretation of a faith not evidence based belief system, shouldn't he let us know?
Science isn't faith based, you can't arbitrarily decide that the Earth is only 6,000 years old for instance, or that a god decided to put oil in the tar sands for us to extract with no consequences.
As Canadians we need to take a VERY critical look at EXACTLY what our federal government is up to and why. If Steven Harper and his government can't come up with convincing SCIENTIFIC evidence(not from some conservative backed "think tank") on why we shouldn't accept anthropogenic climate change then we need a realistic climate change mitigation plan in operation in this nation as soon as possible. Anything else is criminally negligent.
This is the 21st. Century, not the middle ages, there's no way we should have a faith based government in this country with the critically hazardous issues that are at stake. Religion is great for peoples personal life, it's highly offensive however to someone elses spiritual belief system imposed on our country in this way.
So if there are Conservatives who accept the scientific basis behind climate change and understand the crucial need to respond, then why are we still stuck in a never-never land of denial.
Critics want Prime Minister Stephen Harper ousted | Vancouver, Canada | Straight.com
Steven Harper is an embarassment and threat to this nation. We're not religious fanatics, we're not blind to the consequences of our actions when it comes to our treatment of an environment we're all part of. What we do have is a small minority who have hijacked our country and intend to use it to force their own very limited and potentially destructive agenda ahead, something that commentators have been warning us about for years.
Just look at tar sands development and the almost complete unwillingness of our PM to accept REALITY on this issue.
This makes anything the Liberals did look tame by comparison, Chretien didn't put our future at risk by using the government to get the best deal he could for his golf course, Martin didn't do the same by favouring his shipping line. Steven Harper could potentially be one of the worst criminal offenders in this nations history, if the wide-spread destruction expected from continued tar sands development comes to pass. This man needs to be removed from office. We did it with the Liberals, if the Conservatives aren't willing to bring their party back into the real world and their only real response to the crisis is to deny and continue to cheat the people of Canada then it's up to us to step up and take action. we wouldn't let an arsonist burn down our house with no resistance, why are we allowing this man and his government to pile the fuel on to a fire that is has already been burning for decades...according to the EXPERTS.
Is it because he doesn't understand the evidence?
It's very clear that the cryosphere is rapidly disappearing.
Extreme Ice Survey :: Home Page
That extreme weather events have increased both in frequency and magnitude.
That the oceans have undergone expansion and sea level rise.
Globally habitat has been changing for decades and more all consistent with physical principles laid down over centuries and supporting anthropogenic climate change, so where's the problem?
Is it because of his religious beliefs?
The Tyee – Understanding Harper's Evangelical Mission
So if Harper truly believes that industrial development has some religious basis and that he and his government can ignore mainstream science whenever they choose based on some highly questionable intrepretation of a faith not evidence based belief system, shouldn't he let us know?
Science isn't faith based, you can't arbitrarily decide that the Earth is only 6,000 years old for instance, or that a god decided to put oil in the tar sands for us to extract with no consequences.
As Canadians we need to take a VERY critical look at EXACTLY what our federal government is up to and why. If Steven Harper and his government can't come up with convincing SCIENTIFIC evidence(not from some conservative backed "think tank") on why we shouldn't accept anthropogenic climate change then we need a realistic climate change mitigation plan in operation in this nation as soon as possible. Anything else is criminally negligent.
This is the 21st. Century, not the middle ages, there's no way we should have a faith based government in this country with the critically hazardous issues that are at stake. Religion is great for peoples personal life, it's highly offensive however to someone elses spiritual belief system imposed on our country in this way.
So if there are Conservatives who accept the scientific basis behind climate change and understand the crucial need to respond, then why are we still stuck in a never-never land of denial.
Critics want Prime Minister Stephen Harper ousted | Vancouver, Canada | Straight.com
Steven Harper is an embarassment and threat to this nation. We're not religious fanatics, we're not blind to the consequences of our actions when it comes to our treatment of an environment we're all part of. What we do have is a small minority who have hijacked our country and intend to use it to force their own very limited and potentially destructive agenda ahead, something that commentators have been warning us about for years.
Just look at tar sands development and the almost complete unwillingness of our PM to accept REALITY on this issue.
This makes anything the Liberals did look tame by comparison, Chretien didn't put our future at risk by using the government to get the best deal he could for his golf course, Martin didn't do the same by favouring his shipping line. Steven Harper could potentially be one of the worst criminal offenders in this nations history, if the wide-spread destruction expected from continued tar sands development comes to pass. This man needs to be removed from office. We did it with the Liberals, if the Conservatives aren't willing to bring their party back into the real world and their only real response to the crisis is to deny and continue to cheat the people of Canada then it's up to us to step up and take action. we wouldn't let an arsonist burn down our house with no resistance, why are we allowing this man and his government to pile the fuel on to a fire that is has already been burning for decades...according to the EXPERTS.