Israel Warns Neighbors Over March To Jerusalem
- Thread starter Liberalman
- Start date
resist yes, kill,yes, that is what you do when somebody is trying to kill you and your family. Are you saying the parents and friend of the 17 just murdered in cold blood in Afghanistan had no right to use deadly force against the persons (yes plural) that was wandering around killing women and kids. If it had been just one he would have been hanging dead before ever getting back to vase. Grow the **** up.
I've never said attacks against Jews was warranted, but them it would be nice to see one actually prosecuted for a crime, even settlers (civilians) get IDF protection when they are on a rampage
I've never said attacks against Jews was warranted, but them it would be nice to see one actually prosecuted for a crime, even settlers (civilians) get IDF protection when they are on a rampage
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Actually the source was "Information Clearing House". But I also verified the accuracy from several sources before posting it. I posted that story because it gave two examples in one story. But if you'd like to verify that these incidents happened, I'm more than pleased to provide additional references which support the content of my previous post:
Are We Done Killing Children, Yet? » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
Israeli unit commander is cleared of Palestinian pupil's death | World news | The Guardian
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Gaza girl death officer acquitted
'Confirmed kill' case: Full acquittal - Israel News, Ynetnews
Israeli army under fire after killing girl / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Gaza girl death officer cleared
I am neutral regarding the belligerents in this conflict. If they want to torture and murder each other, then I consider picking up a weapon as implied consent to torture and murder.
I am not neutral regarding the right of civilians who want to live in peace to be left alone. If someone is unarmed, they should not be harmed. Harming unarmed, innocent civilians escalates the violence. It forces people who just want to live in peace to resort to violence, to defend themselves and avenge wrongdoing.
I am not neutral regarding the oppression and injustice suffered by millions of Palestinian civilians. I only support non-violent efforts to liberate Palestinians and seek justice. I do not support violence. In fact I see violence as counter production and an obstacle to resolving this conflict in a fair and just manner.
BTW, the people involved in this non-violent effort includes Jews, Israelis and people of every religion and nationality.
International Solidarity Movement - Nonviolence. Justice. Peace.
I am not neutral regarding Canada's unshakable support for one side's war criminals over the other side's war criminals.
I have no problems acknowledging the facts in this conflict. If you can prove something has happened beyond a reasonable doubt, then I will take that fact into consideration.
I am just as aware of Israeli children murdered during this conflict as I am aware of Palestinian children murdered during this conflict. But that's a big difference between me and most Canadians. Most Canadians are aware of Palestinian atrocities, but few Canadians know nearly as much about Israeli atrocities.... and that's a problem IMO. In the near future, this conflict will escalate. Israel will look to Canada and Canadians for support. Before Canadians decide to send our military to fight in support of Israel, Canadians should know the true nature of this conflict, not just the Israeli version we get in the MSM.
I'm willing to give credit, where credit is due: The IDF showed considerable restraint these last few days. But I'm not willing to overlook the constant violence, injustice and oppression suffered by Palestinians on a daily basis, just because for a single day, the IDF behaved. The most likely reason for yesterday's "restraint" was the IDF knew the world would be watching closely.
I try to post information about this conflict that our news should report, but doesn't. As a result, my posts regarding this conflict are just as one sided as our news, but in the opposite direction. If our news was balanced and objective, then my posts would be too. In fact I wouldn't feel a need to post anything at all. Canadians would have an accurate perception of this conflict. But since most Canadians only know the Israeli narrative as reported by our MSM, most Canadians don't have an informed opinion. MSM coverage of this conflict is not only incomplete, its also deliberately inaccurate and manipulative in support of the Israeli narrative.
This is a forum for debate, not a forum for insults and name calling. I don't expect that everyone will agree with my opinions. In fact, I don't want people to just agree with me without using the grey matter between your ears. Please do give me a good logic based hiding if you can. I only have a problem with forum rule violating posts, especially the ones regarding personal attacks and name calling. Calling someone a Joo-hater because you disagree with their opinion has no place on this forum. Not only are most claims about my motivations wrong, they are also off topic.
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Is that why you generalize all Palestinians held by Israel, as political prisoners?
And as always you will not answer.
Gerry's was easy - mine was easy - but even then you cannot answer.
You are neutral - Best look up the definition.
You are anti Jew - Plain and simple. You think because you post such BS that people believe you when compared against your previous posts.
Yet you continue to lie in your posts - and lie to yourself.
Yet you believe your lies and as such you are lying to a fool. But not all on this Forum are fools and see thru your BS, Anti Jew hatred.
And I bet you will not answer the 2 questions posed by Gerry and myself. But then again we are used to that.
Go back and look. I edited the reference for the reason you mentioned, before I read your post.
Tell me, what "justice" have those that have been responsible for Israeli children's deaths been brought to?
Israeli dungeons and torture chambers are filled with thousands of Palestinians including hundreds of children. Some of these people face justice, but most are here because they oppose injustice and oppression (violently or non-violently). Many are here because they are related to people of interest to be used as bargaining chips. Many people held indefinitely by Israelis have never committed a single violent act. I am unaware of a single Israeli held in an Palestinian dungeon or torture chamber. I disagree with how Gilad Shalit was treated. But I can say with confidence, that his treatment was far less severe and a shorter duration than the way Israel has treated hundreds if not thousands of Palestinians.
I agree that many Palestinians have also gotten away with murder. But Canada doesn't support those war criminals. If we did, then I'd also be against that. Instead Canada's leaders unshakably support people who commit or authorize war crimes, which includes murdering Palestinian children.
Now you tell me, where was the justice in the case of Iman al-Hams?
Israeli unit commander is cleared of Palestinian pupil's death | World news | The Guardian
(I'm only referring to that case because it is probably the best documented case of how the Israeli justice system holds IDF soldiers accountable for their actions.)
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There's the link.... it is what "I" said it is, and the post does not show having been edited.
Again, you quote my question, and fail to answer it.
Some of us can count, you miss it because she wasn't Jewish?
Sniper fire for approaching a barricade, pretty fast on the trigger finger
The IDF spokesperson confirmed that one Palestinian was killed during clashes at the Erez crossing on the Israel-Gaza border during protests to commemorate Land Day on Friday, while dozens more were reportedly injured and arrested in other sites in the West Bank and Israel.
Some 15 Palestinians were detained in Issawiya on suspicion of throwing stones, while the remainder were detained in Jerusalem.
One protester was moderately injured at the border crossing near Rachel’s Tomb, and was taken to hospital in Hebron. He was apparently wounded after being hit in the head by tear gas.
At the Erez crossing, eight people were wounded after demonstrators approached the entrance to the crossing and did not answer the IDF’s requests to stop approaching, and the IDF opened fire. Sniper teams stationed at the crossing reported eight wounded, mostly moderatley, one severely. The Palestinian media reported nine Palestinians were injured.
Some 250 Palestinians protested at the Qalandiyah checkpoint. Demonstrators burned tires and hurled rocks at soldiers, who responded with stun grenades and tear gas, and protests continued on Friday evening. The IDF used two crowd dispersal methods and tear gas at the checkpoint.
Palestinian politician Mustafa Barghouti was said to have been hit on the head by a tear gas canister, but Israeli officials later said he had been punched by another Palestinian.
An additional demonstration took place at the Gaza Strip near Khan Yunis, where four people were reportedly wounded by sniper fire when they approached the fence.
Read more: Palestinian Killed in Raging Land Day Protests
come on eao...I have been more than civil with you in the hopes that you would actually answer my queries. I am reaching the point where I feel your complaints about civility are nothing but a smoke screen to excuse you from having to answer these types of questions.
With you and Goober so hot on the Q&A thing feel free to defend the IDF in this issue, Goober skipped the question when asked.
(in part)
UPDATE: following comments doubting wether rape was the issue of the Robbi’s answer, I post here the question that he was asked:
As in war the prohibition against risking your life is broken for the benefit of others, so are the prohibitions against immorality and of kashrut. Wine touched by gentiles, consumption of which is prohibited in peacetime, is allowed at war, to maintain the good spirit of the warriors. Consumption of prohibited foods is permitted at war (and some say, even when kosher food is available), to maintain the fitness of the warriors, even though they are prohibited during peacetime. Just so, war removes some of the prohibitions on sexual relations (gilui arayot in the original – YZG), and even though fraternizing with a gentile woman is a very serious matter, it was permitted during wartime (under the specific terms) out of understanding for the hardship endured by the warriors. And since the success of the whole at war is our goal, the Torah permitted the individual to satisfy the evil urge (yetzer ha’ra in the original -YZG), under the conditions mentioned, for the purpose of the success of the whole.”
http://972mag.com/idf-colonel-rabbi-...-in-war/39535/
(in part)
UPDATE: following comments doubting wether rape was the issue of the Robbi’s answer, I post here the question that he was asked:
Is it allowed in our days [sic] for an IDF soldier, for example, to rape girls during a fight, or is such thing forbidden?
Rabbi Qarim answered thus:“The wars of Israel […] are mitzvah wars, in which they differ from the rest of the wars the nations wage among themselves. Since, essentially, a war is not an individual matter, but rather nations wage war as a whole, there are cases in which the personality of the individual is “erased” for the benefit of the whole. And vice versa: sometimes you risk a large unit for the saving of an individual, when it is essential for purposes of morale. One of the important and critical values during war is maintaining the army’s fighting ability […]
As in war the prohibition against risking your life is broken for the benefit of others, so are the prohibitions against immorality and of kashrut. Wine touched by gentiles, consumption of which is prohibited in peacetime, is allowed at war, to maintain the good spirit of the warriors. Consumption of prohibited foods is permitted at war (and some say, even when kosher food is available), to maintain the fitness of the warriors, even though they are prohibited during peacetime. Just so, war removes some of the prohibitions on sexual relations (gilui arayot in the original – YZG), and even though fraternizing with a gentile woman is a very serious matter, it was permitted during wartime (under the specific terms) out of understanding for the hardship endured by the warriors. And since the success of the whole at war is our goal, the Torah permitted the individual to satisfy the evil urge (yetzer ha’ra in the original -YZG), under the conditions mentioned, for the purpose of the success of the whole.”
http://972mag.com/idf-colonel-rabbi-...-in-war/39535/
When you get sniped isn't is a calming effect that the sniper will be asked what sort of injuries you get? Like 'severely' meaning shot dead.
"the IDF’s requests to stop approaching, and the IDF opened fire. Sniper teams stationed at the crossing reported eight wounded, mostly moderatley, one severely."
Using your 'standards' all rocket attacks that don't injury anybody should be treated like a non-event', not ****ing likely.
"They' are going to say it was as isolated incident.
(in part)
Graham Peebles highlights Israel’s systematic, barbarous practices against Palestinian children – practices that are carried out in violation of international law and obligations Israel had signed up to – and calls on the United Nations to “stand in the face of injustice, violence and hate to safeguard the lives of the innocent, the oppressed the defenceless” in the occupied Palestinian territories.
For many Palestinian children their childhood is lived under a cloak of fear and the threat of violence and abuse at the hands of an armed force that stalks the streets of their homeland. They shoot children, don’t they?
In the 11 years since the year 2000, Israeli forces have killed 1,471 children in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, the bulk of whom were aged between 13 and 17 years. The children of Gaza have been and continue to be at greatest risk, with almost a thousand murdered in the last 12 years. Most are shot randomly and indiscriminately, or killed as a result of Israeli air and ground attacks. Around 50 were taken prematurely from their families by unexploded ordnance.
The most recent atrocities against the people of Gaza began on Friday 9 March and resulted in the killing of 25 Palestinians, and come on the back of the massacre that took place in December 2008/January 2009, when a total of 1,417 Palestinians were murdered, of whom 318 were children and 116 women. Fresh in the children’s young memories lie the echo of that horrendous time, the constant bombardment, the loss of loved ones and the shootings. Besides the deaths, around 1,000 children were injured in the three-week assault, and many children were left with severe physical disabilities and deep psychological wounds. The mental and emotional effects are more difficult to see and/or to treat than broken bones and scared flesh.
The Gaza Community Health Programme estimates that “half Gaza's children – around 350,000 – will develop some form of post-traumatic stress disorder”. This is staggering but unsurprising, and the attacks this March on unarmed civilians will serve to intensify the mental suffering and anguish that these children are living with.
Children make up around 45 per cent of the four million or so total Palestinian population, a fact that terrifies an ageing Israel. And what impact does living under the brutal Israeli occupation have on them? Would they be inclined towards peace and brotherhood? Is tolerance fostered in their hearts and minds through the Israeli occupation, or are the seeds of hate and the desire for revenge being carefully sown?
The violence we see begets not harmony, but further violence. One of the authors of the UN's Goldstone Report, Colonel Desmond Travers, cited a psychiatrist in Gaza as saying: "We already see in our schools in Gaza the next generation of Hamas revolutionaries, children exposed to so much violence they have no option but to terminate their childhood and move into a different frame, and the likelihood is that they will never stabilize." In order to justify the unjustifiable and the unjust, Israel needs to instil hate into another generation of Palestinians – to maintain their position as the “enemy within”, thereby excusing, in some perverted distortion of the facts, its continued aggression, violence and violation of international laws, too many to count.
Intimidation and torture
Palestinian children living in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip under the illegal Israeli occupation are subjected to brutal treatment and illegal imprisonment, torture and intimidation by the Israeli security forces. According to a report by Defence for Children International (DCI), “a pattern of systematic ill-treatment emerges, much of which amounts to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, as defined in the UN Convention against Torture, and in some cases, torture – both of which are absolutely prohibited.”
Since 1967 Palestinian children and adults have been subjected to Israeli military law, a legal system based on prejudice and short on justice. During this period 726,000 Palestinians have been arrested and detained. The numbers of children arrested and taken from their homes is shocking. According to DCI, in the past 11 years alone “around 7,500 children, some as young as 12 years, are estimated to have been detained, interrogated and imprisoned within this system. This averages out at between 500-700 children per year, or nearly two children each and every day.”
Almost a quarter of all children arrested are held in solitary confinement. Children, mainly boys, aged from 12 to 17 years are forcefully taken from their families, often at night, imprisoned, beaten and tortured, intimidated and on occasion subjected to electric shocks. Most children are detained for the terrible crime of throwing stones at soldiers armed with M16 rifles and tear gas.
The Israeli human rights group B’Tselem described the ordeal of one boy, Yahia, aged 15 years. Together with four of his friends, Yahia was arrested and taken to the illegal Israeli settlement of Zuffin. They had their “hands tied behind their backs, they were blindfolded, before being forced to kneel on the ground for several hours”. The boys were then taken to a police station and interrogated.
The interrogator grabbed the boy’s head and slammed it against the wall, slapping him twice. A short time later he returned holding a small electric shock device [Taser]. “He placed the device on my body and I felt a great powerful shock and my body started shivering. I couldn’t feel my arms or legs and I felt extreme pain in my head. I felt I was going to be paralysed, so I decided to confess.”
The process of arrests, intimidation and violence is common practice by the Israeli occupation authorities. The kneeling on the ground, the isolation and the use of hand ties and blindfolds are also used extensively against Palestinians.
Confined cruelty: Israeli treatment of Palestinian minors > Palestine > Redress Information & Analysis
Apparently when you are Jewish only some have the right to quality of life).
Nothing to explain, if you commented on the thread about a 13 year old Syrian killed at a protest yet promote Israel's right to 'open fire' on protesters then you are a racist hypocrite. The only difference is it is a Jew pulling the trigger. The closest experience I have is white men being prejudiced against Native people. Just because I'm white doesn't mean I'm going to be on the side of the white guy, and it confuses the **** out of them when I actually getting into the debate where fists can and have flown. Did that get me in tight with the Indian Band, no way, but at least they didn't go out of their way to get in front of me. Nor did the white group exile me and there were no bonds to break as they were mostly people I already considered to be pricks anyway. I don't think you could exile yourself from the 'collective' even if you could fully accept they have some serious faults when it comes to the 'how to get along long-term in an international world. The latest headlines show they are trying to curl up in a ball and go back to OT ways (closing borders for non-Jews wanting to visit Jerusalem, except it is not an 'all or nothing' sort of thing. As a Christian if my doctrine has me taking all the good verses and apply them to myself then I could be very wrong as some verse would apply to me but others apply to others that are equally as saved. You are better off leaving this gathering of Jews and the Bible out of the same paragraph as a 'gathered group' would at least be able to do all of the 'signs following' that Jesus gave to the Jews as part of their proof of authority that God is working with them. Being a 'false Christian' and a 'blind Jew' do not cancel each other out, either makes for a miserable neighbor, miserable people should not be given great positions of (international) power. If Jews want to practice their own type of lifestyle within the borders of Israel the International community has to respect that if it is within the bounds of all signed UN agreements. The time they become a 'busybody' is when they start thinking they have the right to demand other nations change their ways so the citizens of Israel 'are more comfortable', if you have a 'homeland' and nobody is actually sniping you (false flag operations taken into account) then get some ****ing councelling and leave the rest of the neighborhood to go on in peace.
If I was brain-dead I wouldn't be able to follow the Bible, let alone see where others are creating conflicts in their own doctrine. I've asked you several times to open up with some doctrine you hold (Christian or Jewish) but so far a complete silence. Would it help if I gave you a link to a site where I have been chatting with some Jews about many parts of the Bible, they may not speak for the whole Jewish group and only a few of them acknowledge the NT so while the conversations aren't always pleasant progress is made as far as understanding goes. BTW they think 'your brand of Christianity' *(such as the trinity and men being sent to the lake) is a ****ing joke, a view I whole heartily agree with. Getting them to see that the bruise to the heel in Ge:3:15 is complete and things are being set up for the completion of the bruise to Satan's head. That's what we talk about there, here is one insult following another, so if I was a jew-hater like you and others claim I wouldn't be seeking them out for chatting now would I?
I'm not going to bother them with getting an opinion on you and a few others around here, I like them too much to show them your posts. I'll send the link to Goober and she can verify that such a place exist if you insist, otherwise the place can remain free from 'contamination' lol