U.S. soldier kills up to 16 Afghan civilians

[Vanni Fucci]

As details emerged over the past few days about Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, the once admirable soldier accused of massacring Afghan civilians, the horrific crime became even more unfathomable. Some have suggested that PTSD, or the traumatic brain injury he suffered a couple years ago, might have caused him to snap. But Elspeth Ritchie, the Army's former top psychiatrist, thinks there must be more to it.
Ritchie, who left her Army post a couple years ago and is now the chief clinical officer for the District of Columbia's mental health department, says PTSD is associated with "hypervigilance, numbing, flashbacks"--but not the "kind of violence Bales that allegedly committed." Similarly, she says TBI commonly causes nausea and dizziness, but not an impulse to massacre women and children.

CDNBear says that's inadmissible...

 

[CDNBear]

CDNBear says that's inadmissible...

I did?

Oh, you're one of those people that makes things up, when your argument falls apart.

Noted.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Good call, I was starting to feel embarrassed for you. Again.

You shouldn't...you're looking like quite the asshole, so keep it up sister!

 

[Goober]

CDNBear says that's inadmissible...

All that Dr has is an opinion - No more no less -

 

[Vanni Fucci]

I did?

Oh, you're one of those people that makes things up, when your argument falls apart.

Noted.

I think I'll take clinical data over a cherry picked interview in the Seatle Weekly blog thanks.

Umm...yeah..

All that Dr has is an opinion - No more no less -

Agreed...but she's been in a position to diagnose PTSD in combat veterans, and I think she probably knows a hell of a lot more about it than you or I...so I think I'll accept her opinion over yours if you don't mind...

 

[Goober]

Umm...yeah..



Agreed...but she's been in a position to diagnose PTSD in combat veterans, and I think she probably knows a hell of a lot more about it than you or I...so I think I'll accept her opinion over yours if you don't mind...

All she is doing is diagnosis based upon what she has heard - Facts are different - same as what you are doing.

Ffn opinion - Good way to judge a man- perhaps we could incorporate that into our Justice System - Case goes to social media - and they vote. Really.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

But you seemed so adamant about not putting down the ill in the other thread.

...and I stand by that, but it has not been proven that this Staff Sgt Robert Bales committed his crimes due to mental illness...

Even by your own link, it's looking like he may very well have been mentally ill.

...and you call me dishonest??

I guess you gave up trying to pedal your nonsense, since you ignored the rest of my post.

Haven't ignored anything...probably more bull**** though...

Ffn opinion - Good way to judge a man- perhaps we could incorporate that into our Justice System - Case goes to social media - and they vote. Really.

I haven't judged him you ****tard!

That's my whole point...others here are too quick to say he was mentally ill when he killed those people...that hasn't been proven and until the facts of the case come out and both sides are heard, there is no basis upon which he can be judged...so stop thinking you know what the **** I'm saying and ask if you can't keep up...

 

[CDNBear]

...and I stand by that, but it has not been proven that this Staff Sgt Robert Bales committed his crimes due to mental illness...

True, but that's not the point of this exercise, or what you have proven to me.

...and you call me dishonest??

Yes I do.

Are you saying your article doesn't say that he may be mentally ill?

Haven't ignored anything...probably more bull**** though...

So you ignored it, lol.

Keep confirming my observations. It makes me laugh.

You shouldn't...you're looking like quite the asshole, so keep it up sister!

Of course I look like an Asshole to you, (that's capitalized by the way, I do have a Doctorate in Assholology and all), I just PWND you, a couple times.

Intellectually dishonest people, think anyone that does that, is an Asshole.

Umm...yeah..

So you're saying I should just ignore clinical data, for a couple claims in a blog?

Are you serious?

Agreed...but she's been in a position to diagnose PTSD in combat veterans, and I think she probably knows a hell of a lot more about it than you or I...so I think I'll accept her opinion over yours if you don't mind...

It isn't Goobs, or my opinion. It's clinical data.

so stop thinking you know what the **** I'm saying and ask if you can't keep up...

Advice you should heed.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

True, but that's not the point of this exercise, or what you have proven to me.

I was supposed to be proving something to you?

You asked for my opinion and I gave it, now I'm defending that opinion from your stupid attacks...

Yes I do.

Are you saying your article doesn't say that he may be mentally ill?

No, never said that, what I said was that he has not been diagnosed with mental illness consistent with a valid defense for his crimes...

Of course I look like an Asshole to you, (that's capitalized by the way, I do have a Doctorate in Assholology and all), I just PWND you, a couple times.

You really need to get back to your WOW and ask someone what PWN really means...

It isn't Goobs, or my opinion. It's clinical data.

So clinical data has verified that he is not culpable for his crimes because of PTSD, Alcoholism, Depression and TBI?

No I did not see any evidence of that from any of the links that you provided...

Thanks for coming out though...

 

[CDNBear]

I was supposed to be proving something to you?

Yes. And you did so nicely, thanks.

You asked for my opinion and I gave it, now I'm defending that opinion from your stupid attacks...

Your erroneous opinion isn't what's under attack.

No, never said that, what I said was that he has not been diagnosed with mental illness consistent with a valid defense for his crimes...

I'm talking about what your article said, not what you said.

You really need to get back to your WOW and ask someone what PWN really means...

I obviously know what it means, I just PWND you a couple times.

What's WOW?

So clinical data has verified that he is not culpable for his crimes because of PTSD, Alcoholism, Depression and TBI?

More dishonesty? Really? Keep proving my observations right please, lol.

In that string, you kept say that PTSD symptoms, do not include breaks from reality. You used your link as evidence. Clinical data on the other hand, dictates that PTSD symptoms do include breaks from reality. These are further exacerbated by alcoholism, and other forms of trauma.

No I did not see any evidence of that from any of the links that you provided...

Given your claim that your link doesn't say that he may very well be suffering from mental illness, I have no doubt you didn't see, what you didn't want to. LOL>

Thanks for coming out though...

No need to thank me, the pleasure was all mine, I really enjoy PWN'ing ideologues.

 

[Goober]

PTSD and Psychotic Symptoms - Relationship between PTSD and Psychotic Symptoms

The researchers also found evidence that the more PTSD symptoms a person was experiencing, the greater the likelihood that they would also experience positive psychotic symptoms.

To take their study a step further, the researchers also looked at what traumatic events were most commonly related to the experience of psychotic symptoms. They found the following to be most strongly connected:
•Being involved in a fire, flood, or natural disaster


•Seeing someone get seriously injured or killed


•Experiencing tremendous shock as a result of a traumatic event that happened to a close relative, friend, or significant other

What This All Means

The experience of psychotic symptoms may tell the story of just how severe a person's case of PTSD is and how well he or she is coping with the condition. It may also raise red flags about the likelihood of potentially dangerous behaviors.

Current Psychiatry Reports, Volume 5, Number 3 - SpringerLink

Traumatic brain injury (TBI) can result in serious and disabling neuropsychiatric disorders, such as cognitive deficits and personality change, as well as severe and chronic psychosis. This review focuses on the relationship between TBI and schizophrenia-like psychosis (SLP) including its epidemiology, diagnostic criteria, clinical presentation, psychopathology, risk factors, and pathophysiology. The relationships between post-traumatic epilepsy and SLP, and brain trauma and schizophrenia, are also discussed. The risk of SLP does increase after TBI. The clinical presentation has considerable overlap with primary schizophrenic disorder, with a prominence of persecutory and other delusions and auditory hallucinations, as well as a lack of negative symptoms. The onset is often gradual, with a subacute or chronic course. More severe and diffuse brain injury, especially of the temporal and frontal lobes, is the most prominent risk factor. Genetic load may also play a role, but presence of epilepsy could be a protective factor. Further large and systematic longitudinal studies are needed.

 

[CDNBear]

PTSD and Psychotic Symptoms - Relationship between PTSD and Psychotic Symptoms

The researchers also found evidence that the more PTSD symptoms a person was experiencing, the greater the likelihood that they would also experience positive psychotic symptoms.

To take their study a step further, the researchers also looked at what traumatic events were most commonly related to the experience of psychotic symptoms. They found the following to be most strongly connected:
•Being involved in a fire, flood, or natural disaster


•Seeing someone get seriously injured or killed


•Experiencing tremendous shock as a result of a traumatic event that happened to a close relative, friend, or significant other

What This All Means

The experience of psychotic symptoms may tell the story of just how severe a person's case of PTSD is and how well he or she is coping with the condition. It may also raise red flags about the likelihood of potentially dangerous behaviors.

Current Psychiatry Reports, Volume 5, Number 3 - SpringerLink

Traumatic brain injury (TBI) can result in serious and disabling neuropsychiatric disorders, such as cognitive deficits and personality change, as well as severe and chronic psychosis. This review focuses on the relationship between TBI and schizophrenia-like psychosis (SLP) including its epidemiology, diagnostic criteria, clinical presentation, psychopathology, risk factors, and pathophysiology. The relationships between post-traumatic epilepsy and SLP, and brain trauma and schizophrenia, are also discussed. The risk of SLP does increase after TBI. The clinical presentation has considerable overlap with primary schizophrenic disorder, with a prominence of persecutory and other delusions and auditory hallucinations, as well as a lack of negative symptoms. The onset is often gradual, with a subacute or chronic course. More severe and diffuse brain injury, especially of the temporal and frontal lobes, is the most prominent risk factor. Genetic load may also play a role, but presence of epilepsy could be a protective factor. Further large and systematic longitudinal studies are needed.

Can't be true Goob's, Vanni posted a link to a blog that has a couple quotes from an ex Army head shrinker, that says PTSD symptoms, and head injuries do not include breaks from reality.

Vanni Fucci PWND, AGAIN!!!

 

[Goober]

Can't be true Goob's, Vanni posted a link to a blog that has a couple quotes from an ex Army head shrinker, that says PTSD symptoms, and head injuries do not include breaks from reality.

Must have worked in the CIA Special Ops cell - reading minds and influencing persons behavior from afar.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Can't be true Goob's, Vanni posted a link to a blog that has a couple quotes from an ex Army head shrinker, that says PTSD symptoms, and head injuries do not include breaks from reality.

No I didn't...idiot![/QUOTE]

Do you two tag-team Goob's sister like this too?

Yeah I went there...

 

[CDNBear]

Must have worked in the CIA Special Ops cell - reading minds and influencing persons behavior from afar.

Nah, he's just your run of the mill ideologue.

 

[Goober]

No I didn't...idiot!

Do you two tag-team Goob's sister like this too?

Yeah I went there...[/QUOTE]

Why the emotional fury - Watch it now - Can be dangerous - heavens know what can happen when you are like that.

 

[CDNBear]

No I didn't...idiot!

You didn't post a link to an article that claimed PTSD does not include breaks from reality?

Then say that you believed the article, or Doctor in question, over Goob's and I?

Are you really that dishonest?

Do you two tag-team Goob's sister like this too?

No, she isn't an intellectually dishonest hack.

Yeah I went there...

Of course you did, your argument fell apart and you have nothing left. But are to fragile to admit you erred.

It's OK, you aren't unique.

Agreed...but she's been in a position to diagnose PTSD in combat veterans, and I think she probably knows a hell of a lot more about it than you or I...so I think I'll accept her opinion over yours if you don't mind...

Oh oh!

Vanni Fucci PWND, AGAIN AND AGAIN, lol.

 

[Cliffy]

United | Playing For Change - YouTube

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Nah, he's just your run of the mill ideologue.

You haven't got a clue what I am...

You two have been bashing away at whatever you perceived I was trying to say, and I'm tired of defending myself from your baseless attacks...

I've stated several times in this thread that if he is found to be not guilty of his crimes due to mental illness, then that is what it is, and I accept that...all I was trying to show, was that he has not been diagnosed as such, and so no one knows which way this case will lead...and if his lawyers are unable to prove he is mentally unfit to stand trial, then he should be locked up...for ****ing ever!

 

[Goober]

You haven't got a clue what I am...

You two have been bashing away at whatever you perceived I was trying to say, and I'm tired of defending myself from your baseless attacks...

I've stated several times in this thread that if he is found to be not guilty of his crimes due to mental illness, then that is what it is, and I accept that...all I was trying to show, was that he has not been diagnosed as such, and so no one knows which way this case will lead...and if his lawyers are unable to prove he is mentally unfit to stand trial, then he should be locked up...for ****ing ever!

Reason - They have not had time - Lots of soldiers in the field with PTSD - Fact - They give them meds - send them back out on the firing line. Fact.