Titanic clash looms over proposed Northern Gateway pipeline

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
Northern Gateway endangers environment, energy security: geologist

The proposed $5.5-billion Northern Gateway Pipeline will jeopardize Canada’s long-term energy security while at the same time leading to an unprecedented expansion of the oil sands with its dangerous social and environmental impacts, a former senior federal government geologist says.

David Hughes, who worked as a petroleum geologist for the Geological Survey of Canada for 32 years, says in his 30-page study of the pipeline proposal that Canada already has enough pipeline capacity to supply current and near-future needs.

He says that there is sufficient capacity in existing pipelines and in approved pipeline expansions to meet even the most optimistic growth scenarios by the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers (CAPP) and the Alberta government.

CAPP estimates that oil sands production will grow to 152 per cent of 2010 levels by 2025. The Alberta government predicts production will more than double by 2020, to 3.5 million barrels per day from 1.6 million.

Enbridge Inc. claims its Northern Gateway pipeline is needed to meet this growth and open markets to Asia and the U.S. west coast to oil sands bitumen.

Hughes says, however, that the expansion of pipelines that already go to the West Coast will help meet expansion needs as well as help open foreign markets.

Enbridge says its pipeline will ship 525,000 barrels per day of diluted bitumen from the oilsands. This means that oil sands production will have to grow an additional 33 percentage points over and above current growth predictions just to meet the capacity of this pipeline. In other words, as Enbridge claims, oil sand production will more than triple over the next 25 years.

Hughes argues that such unprecedented growth is impossible given the enormous social and environmental impacts already evident from a decade of oil sands expansion.

In the event that such a high rate of expansion is achieved, it will mean that Canada will export billions of barrels of it highest quality bitumen to Asia at a time when we are running out of conventional oil, he says in his report on the pipeline.

Canadians consume 1.75 million barrels a day, of which 780,000 is imported. The National Energy Board predicts that by 2025 consumption will rise to between 2.2 and 2.8 million barrels per day.

The imports, which supply oil to the Maritimes, Quebec and half of Ontario, have risen steadily over the last 20 years and the National Energy Board predicts they will continue this pattern.

About 98% of the Canada’s oil resources are in the oil sands, which means they now represent the nation’s strategic energy reserve.

The vast majority of oil sands production to date is from the minable surface reserves, which are the best quality. The Alberta government estimates these mining reserves contain about 34 billion barrels. At the predicted rate of production of 3.73 million barrels per day by 2025, these resources will likely be depleted by 2045, Hughes says.

“The proclivity to liquidate these resources as fast as possible in the name of economic growth is a very short-sighted policy practised by the Alberta and federal governments at the expense of the long-term energy security of Canadians,” Hughes states.

The 132 billion barrels that are too deep to be mined will required a more energy-intensive, more costly and more environmentally destructive method of recovery, Hughes says.

This method, referred to as Steam Assisted Gravity Drainage, pumps steam into underground pipes to extract the bitumen. The rate of recovery is much lower than mining and the amount of energy used to extract the bitumen is much higher — about 3.8 barrels of oil equivalent recovered to every barrel burned compared with a ratio of five to one for mining, Hughes says. Conventional oil is about 20 to one.

Hughes said the predicted expansion of the sands “may be good for the corporate growth ambitions of Enbridge but represents a travesty in the management of this non-renewable resource for Canadians, who are its owners, both in terms of the environment consequences of such an expansion and its long-term energy security implications.”

The proposed $5.5-billion Enbridge Northern Gateway Pipeline will travel 1,177 kilometres over the Rocky Mountains from Bruderheim — just north of Edmonton — to Kitimat, B.C., with a completion date of late 2016. Oil tankers will have to navigate about 160 kilometres through narrow channels to get to the Kitimat oil depot. The company and the federal government says the pipeline is vital to the expansion of Canada’s oil markets. At the moment all of Canada’s oil exports go to the U.S.

Enbridge claims the project will create 940 long-term jobs.

Hughes has submitted his report to the Joint Review Panel, which the federal government created to decide if the pipeline should be built. More than 4,000 individuals and organizations have submitted briefs and requests to give testimony.

Northern Gateway endangers environment, energy security: geologist | Energy | News | Financial Post
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
Northern Gateway endangers environment, energy security: geologist

The proposed $5.5-billion Northern Gateway Pipeline will jeopardize Canada’s long-term energy security while at the same time leading to an unprecedented expansion of the oil sands with its dangerous social and environmental impacts, a former senior federal government geologist says.

David Hughes, who worked as a petroleum geologist for the Geological Survey of Canada for 32 years, says in his 30-page study of the pipeline proposal that Canada already has enough pipeline capacity to supply current and near-future needs.

He says that there is sufficient capacity in existing pipelines and in approved pipeline expansions to meet even the most optimistic growth scenarios by the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers (CAPP) and the Alberta government.

CAPP estimates that oil sands production will grow to 152 per cent of 2010 levels by 2025. The Alberta government predicts production will more than double by 2020, to 3.5 million barrels per day from 1.6 million.

Enbridge Inc. claims its Northern Gateway pipeline is needed to meet this growth and open markets to Asia and the U.S. west coast to oil sands bitumen.

Hughes says, however, that the expansion of pipelines that already go to the West Coast will help meet expansion needs as well as help open foreign markets.

Enbridge says its pipeline will ship 525,000 barrels per day of diluted bitumen from the oilsands. This means that oil sands production will have to grow an additional 33 percentage points over and above current growth predictions just to meet the capacity of this pipeline. In other words, as Enbridge claims, oil sand production will more than triple over the next 25 years.

Hughes argues that such unprecedented growth is impossible given the enormous social and environmental impacts already evident from a decade of oil sands expansion.

In the event that such a high rate of expansion is achieved, it will mean that Canada will export billions of barrels of it highest quality bitumen to Asia at a time when we are running out of conventional oil, he says in his report on the pipeline.

Canadians consume 1.75 million barrels a day, of which 780,000 is imported. The National Energy Board predicts that by 2025 consumption will rise to between 2.2 and 2.8 million barrels per day.

The imports, which supply oil to the Maritimes, Quebec and half of Ontario, have risen steadily over the last 20 years and the National Energy Board predicts they will continue this pattern.

About 98% of the Canada’s oil resources are in the oil sands, which means they now represent the nation’s strategic energy reserve.

The vast majority of oil sands production to date is from the minable surface reserves, which are the best quality. The Alberta government estimates these mining reserves contain about 34 billion barrels. At the predicted rate of production of 3.73 million barrels per day by 2025, these resources will likely be depleted by 2045, Hughes says.

“The proclivity to liquidate these resources as fast as possible in the name of economic growth is a very short-sighted policy practised by the Alberta and federal governments at the expense of the long-term energy security of Canadians,” Hughes states.

The 132 billion barrels that are too deep to be mined will required a more energy-intensive, more costly and more environmentally destructive method of recovery, Hughes says.

This method, referred to as Steam Assisted Gravity Drainage, pumps steam into underground pipes to extract the bitumen. The rate of recovery is much lower than mining and the amount of energy used to extract the bitumen is much higher — about 3.8 barrels of oil equivalent recovered to every barrel burned compared with a ratio of five to one for mining, Hughes says. Conventional oil is about 20 to one.

Hughes said the predicted expansion of the sands “may be good for the corporate growth ambitions of Enbridge but represents a travesty in the management of this non-renewable resource for Canadians, who are its owners, both in terms of the environment consequences of such an expansion and its long-term energy security implications.”

The proposed $5.5-billion Enbridge Northern Gateway Pipeline will travel 1,177 kilometres over the Rocky Mountains from Bruderheim — just north of Edmonton — to Kitimat, B.C., with a completion date of late 2016. Oil tankers will have to navigate about 160 kilometres through narrow channels to get to the Kitimat oil depot. The company and the federal government says the pipeline is vital to the expansion of Canada’s oil markets. At the moment all of Canada’s oil exports go to the U.S.

Enbridge claims the project will create 940 long-term jobs.

Hughes has submitted his report to the Joint Review Panel, which the federal government created to decide if the pipeline should be built. More than 4,000 individuals and organizations have submitted briefs and requests to give testimony.

Northern Gateway endangers environment, energy security: geologist | Energy | News | Financial Post

Still looking for BS ways to destroy the economy I see.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
I heard an interview with Harper on the radio this morning (CBC to boot).

Our PM made some interesting points:

  1. That the US funded eco lobbies in Canada think they can bully Canada into being the National Park for all of North America.
  2. While he will give due consideration to the regulatory panel's recommendation, Harper will not necessarily go with their opinion.
Did you hear the interview MF, I'll wager that your sphincter would have snapped shut in a nano second had you been listening.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
I heard an interview with Harper on the radio this morning (CBC to boot).

Our PM made some interesting points:

  1. That the US funded eco lobbies in Canada think they can bully Canada into being the National Park for all of North America.
  2. While he will give due consideration to the regulatory panel's recommendation, Harper will not necessarily go with their opinion.
Did you hear the interview MF, I'll wager that your sphincter would have snapped shut in a nano second had you been listening.
And you probably blew a load in your pants. Of course this pipeline is a foregone conclusion. Harper is the yes man for Big Oil. I'm surprised he hasn't come right out in public and said "F*ck the environment!"
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
I'm surprised he hasn't come right out in public and said "F*ck the environment!"


Is that what you said when you carved-off a piece of ole Mother Gaia to build your home?

I notice that you had nothing to say when asked about screwing the eco system to accommodate your personal needs and comfort.. I suppose that kind of destruction is OK though.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
'Radical' environmental groups fighting back

Northern B.C.-based environmental groups opposed to Enbridge's proposed $5.5-billion Northern Gateway pipeline are fighting a "radical environmentalist" label pinned on them by the federal government.

A coalition of northern B.C. groups ran an ad in a Smithers newspaper just before a federal review panel held hearings in the community Monday.

The review, expected to last 18 months, will determine whether the project is environmentally safe and in the public interest.

The ad shows the faces of more than 100 northern British Columbians and asks: "The Harper Government and 'Ethical Oil' call these people radicals.... Seriously?"

The coalition - under the umbrella of Friends of Wild Salmon - plans to run similar ads in other northwest B.C. communities.

The people in the ad include doctors, farmers, loggers, fisherman and business people, said Pat Moss, a spokeswoman for Friends of Wild Salmon. "They are not the usual suspects when people think of environmentalists," said Moss.

She said Friends of Wild Salmon is not a charitable group and money was donated for the ad campaign from individuals in the region and other areas of B.C.

The first ad cost about $800.

The ad campaign is a direct response to federal Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver's recent characterization that radical environmental groups are trying to block Canada's opportunity to diversify trade in oil to Asia by hijacking the regulatory review of Northern Gateway.

Some environmental groups, such as the B.C.-based Dogwood Initiative, helped sign up 1,600 of the more than 4,000 people who will have an opportunity to give a 10-minute oral statement during the review.

And the group EthicalOil. org - started by conservative political activist and author Ezra Levant - earlier this month launched a series of ads in weekly northern B.C. newspapers and on radio attacking environmental groups opposed to Northern Gateway of taking money from U.S. foreign interests.

Dawn Remington, a retired fisheries biologist from Smithers, dismisses the idea she is a radical environmentalist.

The group she is a member of, Friends of Morice-Bulkley, does not take money from foreign interests, she said. "We're a bunch of locals not typically involved," said Remington of her group, which is part of the Friends of Wild Salmon coalition.

"When we heard the news of a major pipeline going through our watershed it set off alarm bells," she said.

The Morice-Bulkley group has about 10 core volunteers and an email list of 250. It has received a $5,000 grant from the Smithers-based Driftwood Foundation, said Remington. (The Driftwood Foundation takes donations locally and from other sources, including Americans, say foundation officials).

The Morice and Bulkley are two of the rivers in northern B.C. along the 1,172-kilometre pipeline route.

EthicalOil.org has not disclosed where it gets its funding, or whether it has received funding from Enbridge or other oil companies.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Just went over to google maps and took a look at the satellite images for Smithers, BC.. Take a look North and West of the town and it's pretty clear that they've done one helluva job in logging that land to the point where it will resemble a moon-scape in the near future.

Kinda takes the wind out the eco-fringe's sails when they support that kind of activity.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Is that what you said when you carved-off a piece of ole Mother Gaia to build your home?

I notice that you had nothing to say when asked about screwing the eco system to accommodate your personal needs and comfort.. I suppose that kind of destruction is OK though.
Let's see, I used recycled wood from a falling down bunkhouse from a defunked mining operation and a few standing dead trees. Oh, and I recycled the nails I pulled from the lumber. Yup, I raped the land alright. I realize that it is beyond your capacity the understand that there are people who live outside the accepted (at least in your mind) views and practices of the rest of this silly society. All of your assertions are based on your ideas of comfort and living but it just isn't so in my world. I don't live like most folks because I have principles that I live by.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
No oil pipeline here: Enbridge Northern Gateway Joint Review Panel in Smithers finds 100% opposition

It’s unanimous: all of the interveners who gave testimony to the Northern Gateway Joint Review Panel in Smithers oppose the Enbridge Northern Gateway pipeline. The Wet’suwet’en, BC Métis and MLA Doug Douglas all asserted the Bulkley Valley is shared by different cultures which share a dependence on clean rivers for wild salmon.

Without salmon, none of the communities could thrive. The proposed pipeline puts the wild salmon and other wild food at risk.

The Wet’suwet’en have stood up for their heritage many times in the past.With the Gitxsan First Nation they blockaded logging in their traditional territory in the late 1980s, an action which culminated in the Delgamuukw decision of 1997. In that case, the Supreme Court of Canada held that aboriginal title is protected by the constitution and oral history can be presented as evidence of title.

Twenty two Wet’suwet’en spoke for about 15 minutes each. They identified themselves by chief status, house and clan, matrilineal lineage, patrilineal lineage, grandparents, mother, father, siblings, number of children and grandchildren. The testimonies described a system with no parallel in the law of private property. Each house or clan has rights to different parts of the territory. Hereditary chiefs allocate the resources within the house or clan. So family relationships, in the form of clan and house identity, define a person’s relationship to the land: where they hunt, fish, trap and with whom. Intervener after intervener in effect told the panel, “This land is my identity, my culture, my laws and my language. Without it, I lose who I am.”

Darlene Glaim, a hereditary chief, described the clan and feast system of governance. “Whenever we hold a feast, what happens at the feast becomes law,” she explained. “Without that, we wouldn’t survive Canadian governance.” Extra food is traded and reallocated at the feasts, and hereditary chief names are given. Family members are responsible for providing and sharing wild game, plant medicine, berries and fish. Elders train the youth to become chiefs because they will inherit chief identities as elders pass away.

The testimony and stories ran from 9 until 5, with presentations averaging 15 minutes. Every single person told stories of getting food from the wildlife of the land and how this defines their culture. And every single person gave Enbridge a distinct “no.” Many people testified in Wet’suwet’en and had their testimony translated.

Lucy Gagnon said she couldn’t fathom a world without salmon. Samantha Vincent said she shot her first moose at 16 and shot her last one a month ago. Richard Sam said that the river is life blood to his people and every established and ephemeral stream the pipeline passes runs into the river that his people depend on for their existence.

Herb Naziel, wearing a blue blanket with green sequin frog and many coins and eagles, said that the pipeline would destroy his healthy lifestyle and his healthy eating. Debbie Pierre presented a petition that has been submitted to the UN Commission for Human Rights, which led to a discussion of whether it could be admitted because the time for submitting evidence was past.

Chief Alfonse Gagnon told how, when Enbridge first proposed the pipeline, the Wet’suwet’en researched the oil sands. They flew over the oil sands and talked to the Fort Chippewa people. “We seen the devastation sitting there at oil sands,” he said. “Those big berms by the Athabasca River. We looked at the effects on the people that are living in the area. Their water was poisoned and they were getting strange cancers. It was devastating to our ears. The Athabasca delta produced everything in their life: muskrat, beavers, ducks, provided everything they needed. It was hard to listen to the answers to our questions. I asked, “What is your biggest fear if they keep producing oil sands above you?” They answered, “Our biggest fear is that we will be relocated.”

Chief Gagnon continued, “I would be devastated if we were removed from our land. It is who we are.” He criticized Harper’s comments about radicals who want to stop the project. “I’m worried about the money that Enbridge spent trying to promote the project,” he said. “Who is giving the money for ethical oil? Who gave $80 million to Enbridge to push forward with pipeline? The Prime Minister makes it look like pipeline opponents are making the government victims. It’s important to understand who the victims are. We’re the victims.”

Teresa Tait-Day said “We aren’t worried about the pipeline’s two inches of land. We are worried about our entire relationship with everything. We need to live off the land and sustain ourselves to be who we are. Don’t hold money in the highest regard, hold people in the highest regard.” Adam Gagnon said, “The representatives of Enbridge here have asked for the last eight years. I’ve sat with them in meetings. We’ve told them no. It’s not respectful to keep asking. What part of no do they not understand? They try to sell dreams to people who are poor, that this wealth will make their life better. Give poor people money and their life doesn’t get better it gets worse. We’ve seen that time and time again.”

Gary Ducommun of the Métis Nation of BC also spoke to the importance of wildlife for food. He saw the pipeline threatening moose with new access to their areas.

No oil pipeline here: Enbridge Northern Gateway Joint Review Panel in Smithers finds 100% opposition | The Vancouver Observer - Page 1
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,817
471
83
Cabinet can't reverse NEB rejection of Northern Gateway — academics

OTTAWA — Prime Minister Stephen Harper has provided an unclear portrayal of the federal government's relationship with the independent agency that will rule on the proposed $5.5-billion Northern Gateway pipeline, two academics said Tuesday.

Harper, in an interview Monday with CBC, was asked if the federal government would accept a negative decision by the National Energy Board that is now conducting hearings into the proposed Enbridge megaproject to ship oilsands bitumen by pipeline from Alberta to port in Kitimat, B.C., for export by tanker to Asia.

"Well, obviously, we'll always take a look at the recommendation. We take the recommendations of environmental reviews very seriously," Harper said.

"And this government has in the past changed projects or even stopped projects if reviews were not favourable, or (the government) indicated that changes had to be made. So we'll take a close look at what the conclusions are."

But two academics familiar with the NEB process said Harper has misportrayed the relationship between cabinet and the independent agency. "Harper did not represent the structure of authority in this case correctly," said George Hoberg, a professor at the University of B.C.'s department of forest resources management.

He said the Joint Review Panel that is assessing the project under both the NEB Act and the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act "is the final decision-maker, not the cabinet."

He said the NEB can't give the project the go-ahead by issuing a Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity without cabinet approval, which means the government could overrule a positive decision.

"But cabinet can't overrule a 'No' decision without new legislation," Hoberg said.

University of Calgary law professor Nigel Bankes agreed, saying that while negative NEB decisions are "very rare," the outcome represents the "end of the line" unless the government brings in new legislation.

An NEB spokesperson couldn't be reached for comment Tuesday, but in November, Carole Leger-Kubeczek confirmed that cabinet is only involved in approving or disapproving a decision if the NEB recommends the project get the go-ahead.

But she noted in an email that the government, or anyone, could formally ask the board to reconsider its decision.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
Cabinet can't reverse NEB rejection of Northern Gateway — academics

OTTAWA — Prime Minister Stephen Harper has provided an unclear portrayal of the federal government's relationship with the independent agency that will rule on the proposed $5.5-billion Northern Gateway pipeline, two academics said Tuesday.

Harper, in an interview Monday with CBC, was asked if the federal government would accept a negative decision by the National Energy Board that is now conducting hearings into the proposed Enbridge megaproject to ship oilsands bitumen by pipeline from Alberta to port in Kitimat, B.C., for export by tanker to Asia.

"Well, obviously, we'll always take a look at the recommendation. We take the recommendations of environmental reviews very seriously," Harper said.

"And this government has in the past changed projects or even stopped projects if reviews were not favourable, or (the government) indicated that changes had to be made. So we'll take a close look at what the conclusions are."

But two academics familiar with the NEB process said Harper has misportrayed the relationship between cabinet and the independent agency. "Harper did not represent the structure of authority in this case correctly," said George Hoberg, a professor at the University of B.C.'s department of forest resources management.

He said the Joint Review Panel that is assessing the project under both the NEB Act and the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act "is the final decision-maker, not the cabinet."

He said the NEB can't give the project the go-ahead by issuing a Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity without cabinet approval, which means the government could overrule a positive decision.

"But cabinet can't overrule a 'No' decision without new legislation," Hoberg said.

University of Calgary law professor Nigel Bankes agreed, saying that while negative NEB decisions are "very rare," the outcome represents the "end of the line" unless the government brings in new legislation.

An NEB spokesperson couldn't be reached for comment Tuesday, but in November, Carole Leger-Kubeczek confirmed that cabinet is only involved in approving or disapproving a decision if the NEB recommends the project get the go-ahead.

But she noted in an email that the government, or anyone, could formally ask the board to reconsider its decision.

Don't be too sure about that. Aside from introducing new legislation I think they can override these decisions by using the laws already in place that give parliament the right to make decisions based on national best interests. And clearly having access to alternatives to the US market is in the best national interest.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
148
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Personally, I get a real kick out of all the eco-crites that post ads in the Smithers Newspaper deriding the P/L, but according to the satellite images, they have no problem turning their country side into a moonscape.
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
71
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
I have no problem with people just getting what they need to survive, but mowing down everything in sight, screwing up air, water, and land with crap to make a buck is not what I'd call honorable.
And this lame argument about what people use to build their homes with is pathetic. Unless one can figure out how NOT to use ANY resources to build their house with, one has to use stuff like wood, steel, concrete, etc. Wood comes from trees, metals come from the ground mostly, concrete ingredients come from the ground, etc.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
I have no problem with people just getting what they need to survive, but mowing down everything in sight, screwing up air, water, and land with crap to make a buck is not what I'd call honorable.
And this lame argument about what people use to build their homes with is pathetic. Unless one can figure out how NOT to use ANY resources to build their house with, one has to use stuff like wood, steel, concrete, etc. Wood comes from trees, metals come from the ground mostly, concrete ingredients come from the ground, etc.

I'm told straw bale is best!
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
We do not need this pipeline for economic and environmental reasons For one we
should not be exporting raw materials like this to China its not in our interest, and no
we should not export raw logs either. We should produced everything in Canada and
sell finished product only to the world, now that creates jobs. In the case of gas and
oil only limited amounts should be available for export. Remember the more we
ship to America, the more we have to provide in emergencies under free trade.
Secondly it could be ship to refineries by rail. In this case a gas, it should be for the
domestic market only, let the world freeze in the dark its ours and we should keep it
and manage it for ourselves.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
I'm told straw bale is best!
Straw is good but you can't build a house with straw only. There is also Cobb housing (mud and straw mixed - free form), Rammed Earth (the original Great Wall f China was built with rammed earth), Elongated sand bags and barbed wire domes, domes and square homes built with mill ends, log homes built with standing dead trees.... etc. Do we really need to live in and heat 1500 - 2000 sq/ft homes? Most homes in Canada would be considered mansions in third world countries. We waste because we have this idea that our resources are endless. They are not.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Straw is good but you can't build a house with straw only. There is also Cobb housing (mud and straw mixed - free form), Rammed Earth (the original Great Wall f China was built with rammed earth), Elongated sand bags and barbed wire domes, domes and square homes built with mill ends, log homes built with standing dead trees.... etc. Do we really need to live in and heat 1500 - 2000 sq/ft homes? Most homes in Canada would be considered mansions in third world countries. We waste because we have this idea that our resources are endless. They are not.

Right on all points, Cliff. My three siblings, parents and I lived for many years in 704 square feet. We used bunk beds in those days- oh and for part of that time one facility was in a detached building 3' square! :lol:
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
Resources are not endless and we will need them a lot sooner than we anticipate
We are going to try to supply a world with ten billion people with energy? See how
long that lasts. Once the tap is turned on or we allow the foreign investment in it
will be difficult to control let alone shut it down to protect our own interests.
This idea of get the money, money, money, well that is OK until the supply runs out
then there is no more money to count while we are sitting in the dark. It is time to
think about the future. And I mean the long term future, the Present governments
think the future is next year and it is not.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
193
63
Nakusp, BC
Right on all points, Cliff. My three siblings, parents and I lived for many years in 704 square feet. We used bunk beds in those days- oh and for part of that time one facility was in a detached building 3' square! :lol:
I used outhouses for the better part of my life but they might be a tad odoriferous in a crowded subdivision.