BC RCMP Contract Up For 20 Year Renewal

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
2,014
24
38
Calgary, AB
I've heard criticism of the provincial police in Ontario and Quebec, I hear criticism of the RCMP in other provinces, I hear criticism of the various city police forces. I don't think it matters really who you have or what you call them, there will be some that abuse their position and tarnish the uniform, and there will be people who think that because someone is wearing a uniform, they are a new and transplanted manifestation of the Gestapo.

What I find most interesting is that the case that keeps being brought up is four years old. I say this not to make light of the actions of the officers or condone them in any fashion, nor to detract from the fact that Mr Dziekański died, but rather to make the case that if the RCMP are so far off the rails, how come we aren't seeing more of the cases? There are cell phones and video cameras everywhere. I mean we had one other incident that was posted here (allegedly outside a bar in Victoria?) where one of the arresting officers appeared to be out of control, but for a force that is essentially the national police force for a country of 33 or so million people, that doesn't seem to justify the sentiment to do away with them.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
14
38
Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
You are so biased and so wrong. If you have never been a part of such a large organization then - you should keep your deeply seated bias to yourself. The Dziekanski case was handled very poorly but - the one in charge of those who arrived at the airport is the one man to blame here. In any "military" type of organization, the others must pay attention to the senior person. He was wrong from the very moment her arrived on the scene and how he managed to be a police officer for so long eludes me. To say the RCMP did not care is ludicrous.

Then a large number of Canadians have the same bias as me. This case, managed by the RCMP from Ottawa, is one major reason why BC wants its own police force, so we can get results and not be ignored. The RCMP made one mistake after another here and prefers stonewalling to openness. They are a dysfunctional mess.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
I say turf'em. Say by-by. The RCMP is out of touch with modern BC. They are a rural police force, they started as the NWMP in the 19th century to deal with the settling of the West. In their HQ in south Vancouver, they have a big buffalo head-it looks pretty cool though, a symbol of their origins and corporate culture. So I say let the prairies have them, Ontario and Quebec have bid them adieu.

It's a moot issue- what "umbrella" they are under has bugger all to do with anything. What we need is a unit comprised of honest, dedicated, intelligent and caring individuals..........."a rose by any other name is still a rose" and sh*t by any other name is still sh*t (even if you want to try to dress it up as manure)
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
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Vancouver
www.cynicsunlimited.com
It's a moot issue- what "umbrella" they are under has bugger all to do with anything. What we need is a unit comprised of honest, dedicated, intelligent and caring individuals..........."a rose by any other name is still a rose" and sh*t by any other name is still sh*t (even if you want to try to dress it up as manure)

No, the bureaucratic corporate structure is important. Nice people are everywhere, but at work they are forced to work under certain constraints. Canada is a huge country, and the RCMP in Ottawa have taken advantage of that. The RCMP is their own kingdom in Ottawa and no one can tell them what to do.

The RCMP need to downsize and refocus. That is what Canada is all about, we get new companies, products, political parties and police forces. The older an organization is, the more corrupt it tends to be. BC and Alberta like referendums, while in Ontario and Quebec they are in shock that the little people can decide major issues. We are more modern out here in many ways and I like it. Turf out the old and bring in something new, it's not perfect, but better.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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The RCMP happens to be in every province, but they're less so in Ontario because Ontario has its own police force which makes the RCMP less necessary.
"The RCMP is responsible for an unusually large breadth of duties. Under their federal mandate, the RCMP provides policing throughout Canada, including Ontario and Quebec (albeit under smaller scales there). Federal operations include: enforcing federal laws including commercial crime, counterfeiting, drug trafficking, border integrity, organized crime and other related matters; providing counter-terrorism and domestic security; providing protection services for the Monarch, Governor General, Prime Minister, their families and residences, and other ministers of the Crown, visiting dignitaries, and diplomatic missions; and participating in various international policing efforts"
BC and many other provinces do not have their own provincial police force, so the RCMP ends up doing the majority of duties in the provinces. Oh, and the RCMP and the OPP occasionally work together to get things solved.
What out of touch girl are you referring to????? You sound like you have put a Wiki description on here regarding the responsibilities of the RCMPolice.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
You are so biased and so wrong. If you have never been a part of such a large organization then - you should keep your deeply seated bias to yourself. The Dziekanski case was handled very poorly but - the one in charge of those who arrived at the airport is the one man to blame here. In any "military" type of organization, the others must pay attention to the senior person. He was wrong from the very moment her arrived on the scene and how he managed to be a police officer for so long eludes me. To say the RCMP did not care is ludicrous.

Would that be Monty Robinson? I'd say his boss needs a good looking over too. He's probably even more guilty.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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I didn't know they removed the RCMP in ONTARIO... when did this happen? Considering there is an RCMP station done not far from where i live.

Does anyone have a link or source to get this out of touch girl in the know? I don't want to make any comments on the subject until i am more informed.
In Ontario, the RCMP only do Federal policing (includes looking after the PM)

Would that be Monty Robinson? I'd say his boss needs a good looking over too. He's probably even more guilty.
I don't know the names JLM - would have to look them up again. Once they leave the office, whoever is senior (rank structure) is responsible for what happens. He would not have called anyone to find out. It's his resposibility to have enough smarts to know what to do. He didn't seem to. The others were probably instructed to lie and I cannot think of anyone but him suggesting to them that they do that (I certainly don't know any of this for sure). Their problem was that at that point, scared or not, they did not have to follow instructions ( I guess we should call those suggestions) and they should have gone with their gut which should have been telling them to tell the truth. My best guess is an idiot for a leader and bigger idiots followed. No integrity. Bosses have to have trust in their workers no matter the job. I gather that until this incident, the detachment commander had no reason to feel concern about this man.
I have over the many years seen senior personnel lose their job and their pension by being stupid enough to shop lift some cheap little thing out of a store. When you know how embarrassed the members get over a small incident like that, how do you think they feel about one so major as this one.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,340
113
Vancouver Island
I'm not arguing that use of a taser was deemed wrong and certainly the RCMP could have exercised diplomacy, but this guy should never have been left to this point and everyone including the media is so focused on the personal whipping boy (known as the RCMP) they have completely overlooked the obvious. This guys death was a direct result of Canada Customs failing and had they exercised a bit of common sense and attempted to help this man he would still be alive.

According to official sources, Dziekański required language support to complete initial customs formalities. After he completed initial immigration processing, his whereabouts between 4:00 p.m. and about 10:45 p.m. remain unclear, though at various points he was seen around the baggage carrousels. Dziekański's mother, Zofia Cisowski, had told him to wait for her at the baggage claim area but it was a secured area where she was not allowed to enter.] At 10:45 p.m., when he attempted to leave the Customs hall, he was directed again to secondary immigration as his visa had not yet been processed. Dziekański's immigration procedures were completed at about 12:15 a.m. on October 14

After 30 minutes in an immigration waiting area, he was taken to the international arrivals reception area. Cisowski had been making enquiries of airport staff since the early afternoon. Airport staff told her Dziekański was not at the airport and she had returned to Kamloops at about 10 p.m., believing her son had missed his flight.

When Dziekański left the Customs hall, he became visibly agitated. Bystanders and airport security guards were unable to communicate with him because he did not speak English.[

He used chairs to prop open the one-way doors between a Customs clearing area and a public lounge and at one point threw a computer and a small table to the floor before the police arrived.


Any customs agent who was connected to this should have lost their bloody job.
How you planning on firing a unionized government worker just because he/she is incompetent? About 95% of them would have to go
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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How you planning on firing a unionized government worker just because he/she is incompetent? About 95% of them would have to go
Taxslave, are you suggesting the RCMP are unionized? They are not.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
4,235
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Vancouver
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You know what I find disheartening about the Polish Guy in the Vancoiuver Airport? The fact that Canada Customs left him there to languish to the point that he went ballistic and the RCMP had to be called in the first place. Can anyone explain to me how hard it is to find a polish interpreter in the Vancouver International Airport? Can anyone explain to me why Canada customs was not held at least partially responsible for the death of this man?

Get your facts straight the video was on the news the day it happened.

One of the facts here I suppose was that Canada Customs renovated the area where people enter Canada. Funny how it happened shortly after the Polish man was killed. "It was the planning" they would say. No much comment, but changes nevertheless. An implied admission of gult here. Being a distant, remote, fed institution-Customs, we can't get much more out of them in BC.

Two remote institutions, the RCMP and Customs, don't do well under pressure. Things are obviously quite relaxed in Ottawa.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
Taxslave, are you suggesting the RCMP are unionized? They are not.

The were awarded the right by the SCoC quite some time ago. As per the bill tabled. Officers will now recieve OT pay. A substantial cost due to manpower shortages at all levels of the RCMP.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
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Moving
No, the quote got trimmed. RCS suggested that the customs staff that couldn't be bothered to find someone that spoke Polish in a workplace with 40000 employees should be fired.

Those Officers should be at the least be charged with Manslaughter - They carry the authority to arrest and with that not only the training but the responsibility to act accordingly with that power given to them in trust by the public.

Customs - well another bunch that needs a good cleaning.
But they are all experts at deflecting the blame -
Remember how this was originally portrayed. Total fuking BS.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
43
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No, the quote got trimmed. RCS suggested that the customs staff that couldn't be bothered to find someone that spoke Polish in a workplace with 40000 employees should be fired.
Well - this story is getting old but - I did do a lot of reading on it when it first occurred and I'm sure I'm not alone. The airport staff was the first to let him down. They dismissed the fact that he was confused and did not speak English. Even after all was put in print, the airport staff denied all and for some odd reason, everyone has let that slide, preferring to target the police. I'm not protecting the police. They were 100% wrong in this instance. I still believe that had the airport done their job in the first place, the police would not have been called. It's a moot point now anyway.

Those Officers should be at the least be charged with Manslaughter - They carry the authority to arrest and with that not only the training but the responsibility to act accordingly with that power given to them in trust by the public.

Customs - well another bunch that needs a good cleaning.
But they are all experts at deflecting the blame -
Remember how this was originally portrayed. Total fuking BS.
I don't agree that they should all be charged with manslaughter Goober. The recording clearly showed that the one in charge, went in with plans to use the taser before he even got to the scene. The rest followed orders. There were things that happened there that the general public does not understand, including the scene where people felt that one was beating on him with his baton. You close an asp baton by hitting the handle on it on a hard surface and that was all that happened there. They should be fired (not just let go but outright fired) and a total loss of their pensions with no ability to try to re-instate their pensions. That should happen to a lot of politicians too.
Anyway, yes - the one that shot the taser should probably be charged with manslaughter. He did not access the situation but went in with guns loaded so to speak.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Those Officers should be at the least be charged with Manslaughter - They carry the authority to arrest and with that not only the training but the responsibility to act accordingly with that power given to them in trust by the public.

Customs - well another bunch that needs a good cleaning.
But they are all experts at deflecting the blame -
Remember how this was originally portrayed. Total fuking BS.

Actually it was out and out murder! Let's call a spade a spade.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
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Actually it was out and out murder! Let's call a spade a spade.

The tazer was thought to be a restraining tool but it has the capability to be a deadly weapon. I think
"murder" is a bit strong. Nobody intended to kill the guy. I would remove the tazer until we know
more about it.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
The tazer was thought to be a restraining tool but it has the capability to be a deadly weapon. I think
"murder" is a bit strong. Nobody intended to kill the guy. I would remove the tazer until we know
more about it.

The mindset was there that they had no concern about the man's safety or well being!
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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The mindset was there that they had no concern about the man's safety or well being!

I would bet that those four officer's only experience with the tazer was the fifteen minute video
from the taser manufacturer.