Not all Jews are Zionists

petros

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Israelites were sepearate from the Judeans but were defeated and forced into submission and taxation under Judean law rather than Mosaic. It's what POed God and made him send Jesus.
 

shadowshiv

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I would venture to guess that this also means one shouldn't say ''breath deep'' when they report having spread fumigation in their residence like I was told to do.

I don't read every post, so if that was said, then Report it!! When I said everyone, I meant everyone.
 

eanassir

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I'm glad you have finally acknowledged that Israel has been around for a very long time. That the Nation of Israel has been around since long before Mohamed. Your post supporting this si much appreciated.

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But the Arab and Palestine was there before the Israelite, who came to Palestine under the leadership of Moses. Moses ordrered them to capture the city of Jericho: who were in Jericho? The people of Palestine land.

The original people before the coming of Moses and his people; the original people were the people of Palestine.
 

Cliffy

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A Semite is any descendant of the original inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula, and this includes those known as Hamites, as they are the children of one father, Nuh or Noah. For example, the Canaanites/Phoenicians were from Ham, and the Ethiopians/Himyarites from Sam (Shem). But they were all essentially one, despite the nomenclature,which is much more in vogue in the west than the east. The most accurate definition of an Arab today would be "an Arabic-speaking Semite". Any person can become Jewish (or Muslim, or Buddhist, or Catholic). But this does not change their ancestry to "Hebrew" (or Syrian, Chinese, or Roman!)
FYI: Actually, Semites and Hamites are descendant of Noah, yes. However, Noah had 3 sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Hamites are descendant of Ham. Semites are descendants of Shem. Therefore, Hamites and Semites are actually separate; from 2 different siblings. One is NOT included in the other. Yes, there may be some people known to be both a Semite and Hamite, descended from both brothers, but one is not included as the other. A person may be one, the other, or both...but one is not the same as the other. The Hebrews of Old Testament are descended from Ham. Therefore, the 12 tribes are descended from Ham: Hamites, not Semites. One of the tribes was the Tribes of Judah. Consequently, a TRUE Jew (or of the tribe of Judah), would be a Hamite, not a Semite. Also, any TRUE Hebrew or Israelite MUST be Hamite, not Semite.




The Arabs of The Arabian Peninsula, Syrian Arab Republic, Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, and small communities in Libya and others(Arabstan in Iran). Also The Hebrews or the Middle Eastern Jews, and Assyrians.
 

gerryh

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But the Arab and Palestine was there before the Israelite, who came to Palestine under the leadership of Moses. Moses ordrered them to capture the city of Jericho: who were in Jericho? The people of Palestine land.

The original people before the coming of Moses and his people; the original people were the people of Palestine.


I see, so, when exactly did God take the land away from the Jewish people? I know he gave them the land, I don't remember it being taken away. Or are you saying that a man can take away that what was given by God?
 

gopher

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did God take the land away from the Jewish people?

According to the Bible, it was promised to all 12 Israelite tribes, not just one. Further in the New Testament Jesus said it would be awarded upon his return to all 12 tribes plus all who call him Messiah. Since Muslims acknowledge him as Messiah, they, too, like all Christians and Israelites get a portion of the Promised Land.
 

Cliffy

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According to the Bible, it was promised to all 12 Israelite tribes, not just one. Further in the New Testament Jesus said it would be awarded upon his return to all 12 tribes plus all who call him Messiah. Since Muslims acknowledge him as Messiah, they, too, like all Christians and Israelites get a portion of the Promised Land.
Holy Crap! Is it ever going to be crowded there. Almost 3 billion people jammed into Palestine. That promise must have been made when there a lot fewer people on the planet. I guess god didn't foresee that we would multiply like rats.
 

windowsillsound

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Talking garbage about "the jews" is the most insane stupid thing a person could do. With respect to all sides of the issue in Israel / Palestine.

It's just thoughtless stupid hatred feeding a schizophreonia snake which can cross continents.
 

earth_as_one

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Who are the Zionists?

Here's what they are not...

Not all Zionists are Jews.
Not all Jews are Zionists.
Not all Zionists are evil.
Not all evil people are Zionists.
Not all Zionists support the State of Israel...

Does that help? :wink:

Wiki:
Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a Jewish political movement that, in its broadest sense, has supported the self-determination of the Jewish people in a sovereign Jewish national homeland. Since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily to advocate on behalf of the Jewish state and address threats to its continued existence and security. In a less common usage, the term may also refer to non-political, cultural Zionism, founded and represented most prominently by Ahad Ha'am; and political support for the State of Israel by non-Jews, as in Christian Zionism. Critics of Zionism consider it a colonialist or racist movement.
Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Zionists believe the claim to Eretz Israel. A "national" homeland of the Jews based on biblical references:



I could support Zionism if it was accomplished justly and non-violently, however consider me a critic of creating a situation where millions of people suffer injustice and oppression.

Prophesies have a way of becoming self fulfilling, especially when a lot of people with money and power believe them. How the current state of Israel came to resemble the described areas is another debate.

I admit I'm not an expert in Zionism. Maybe others here could share their viewpoint.

Zionism seems like a movement that started out with good intentions but when implemented developed problems which were solved expeditiously and violently, leading to the current morally and militarily indefensible situation.

Modern Zionism was founded by Theodor Herzl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As I said, I could support Zionism if it was accomplished justly and non-violently. That's also why some Jews also oppose Zionism in its current form:

Question: the source for the halacha that it is asur to fight wars in a time when there is no Beis Hamikdash or direct tzivui from Hashem. Meaning that the only time there will be halachik wars now is in the time of Gog Umagog. Isn't a war of self-defense permissible and obligatory because of the ruling "Habah Lehargecha Hashkeim Lehargo"?

Answer: Haba Lehargecha certainly applies nowadays, but lets say a Jew is ordered at gunpoint to give his money. Does he have a right to shoot the other person in self-defense? No, he must hand over the money. The Arabs fighting the medinah dont want to kill Jews for no reason; they are engaged in a war to get the land back from the Jews. If the Jews gave them what theyre asking for, they would not want to kill them. So self-defense against the Arabs is really defense of a piece of land, not of Jewish lives. Defending land was permitted in the time of the Beis Hamikdash when the Jews were supposed to have the land, but not now.

Question- Do you beleive that Jews forcibly took Eretz Yisroel in violation of the shvua? Doesn't history attest that Hashem miraculously convinced the UN to legally and peacefully turn over Eretz Yisroel to the Jews. And that the subsequent war of independence was a war of self defense to protect jews already living in Israel (because one is not allowed to rely on a miracle).

Answer The nations in the U.N. who voted in favor of a Jewish state did not include the nations ruling over the land, i.e. the Arabs who lived there and the British who ruled it until then (the British abstained in the vote and did nothing to help carry out the U.N. resolution). In the end, the Zionists did have to fight for their land, first against the local Arabs (Palestinians) and then against the surrounding nations. That is definitely "with a strong hand" and a rebellion against the nations. The fact that they had a recommendation to do so from other nations around the world who were not involved in the conflict means nothing halachically speaking. And the 1948 war was not a fight to defend a piece of land; it was a fight to get a piece of land.

Imagine that all the countries in the UN except America voted to give the Jews the state of New York for a country of their own. And the Jews held a meeting and declared independence in the state of New York. And then the U.S. army came to fight them. Would it then be self-defense to fight back against the U.S. army?

Furthermore, not everyone agrees that going up "as a wall" means by military means. The Avnei Nezer is the only one who says that. Others (Yefeh Kol, Ahavas Yonasan) understand it as any mass immigration.

Also, do not forget about the other oath, which prohibits forcing the end. Founding a state before the coming of moshiach certainly falls under that category. Even the Avnei Nezer only says that the oath against "going up as a wall" becomes permitted when the nations give it to us, which would mean that mass immigration is permitted according to him, but not founding a state.

Furthermore, the borders of the Jewish state proposed by the UN are a far cry from the borders actually conquered by the Zionists. The U.N.'s Jewish state was made up of a thin strip along the coast, the Negev desert, and a strip in the northeast. These three pieces are barely connected. And all of Jerusalem and its environs were to be deep within the Arab state.
Debates
 

ironsides

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One Day in the Life of a Jew in France

HorowitzFreedomCenter, November 9, 2011
I received this post from a friend in NY. One of his friends is living in France and posted this to him with the request that he distribute it to his American friends. He prefaces with:
Once again, the real news in France is conveniently not being reported as it should. To give you an idea of what’s going on in France where there are now between 5 and 6 million Muslims and about 600,000 Jews, here is an email that came from a Jew living in France. Will the world say nothing – again – as it did in Hitler’s time? He writes:
“I am a Jew – therefore I am forwarding this to everyone on all my e-mail lists. I will not sit back and do nothing. Nowhere have the flames of anti-Semitism burned more furiously than in France: In Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set on fire. In Montpellier, the Jewish religious center was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and Marseilles; so was a Jewish school in Creteil – all recently. A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with Molotov cocktails, and on the statue of Alfred Dreyfus in Paris, the words ‘Dirty Jew’ were painted. In Bondy, 15 men beat up members of a Jewish football team with sticks and metal bars. The bus that takes Jewish children to school in Aubervilliers has been attacked three times in the last 14 months.
According to the Police, metropolitan Paris has seen 10 to 12 anti-Jewish incidents PER DAY in the past 30 days. Walls in Jewish neighborhoods have been defaced with slogans proclaiming ‘Jews to the gas chambers’ and ‘Death to the Jews.’ A gunman opened fire on a kosher butcher’s shop (and, of course, the butcher) in Toulouse, France; a Jewish couple in their 20′s were beaten up by five men in Villeurbanne, France The woman was pregnant; a Jewish school was broken into and vandalized in Sarcelles, France . This was just in the past week.
So I call on you, whether you are a fellow Jew, a friend, or merely a person with the capacity and desire to distinguish decency from depravity, to do, at least, these three simple things:
First, care enough to stay informed. Don’t ever let yourself become deluded into thinking that this is not your fight. I remind you of what Pastor Neimoller said in World War II: ‘First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.’
Second, boycott France and French products. Only the Arab countries are more toxically anti-Semitic and, unlike them, France exports more than just oil and hatred. So boycott their wines and their perfumes. Boycott their clothes and their foodstuffs. Boycott their movies. Definitely boycott their shores. If we are resolved we can exert amazing pressure and, whatever else we may know about the French, we most certainly know that they are like a cobweb in a hurricane in the face of well-directed pressure.
Third, send this along to your family, your friends, and your co-workers. Think of all of the people of good conscience that you know and let them know that you and the people that you care about need their help.
The number one bestselling book in France is….’September 11: The Frightening Fraud,’ which argues that no plane ever hit the Pentagon.
Please pass this on. Let’s not let history repeat itself, thank-you for your time and consideration.”








One Day in the Life of a Jew in France | Sharia Awareness Action Network
 

earth_as_one

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The above was a message from the Coalition of Citizens who through strategic action will prevent the implementation of Sharia Law in America... Yeah right, like that's going to happen.

Yes antisemitism exists, but no its not a big problem in France, Europe, Canada or the US. If Jews or any other religious group are victimized or discriminated against, they have legal means to remedy the situation, including criminal charges.

Here are some more reliable sources which describe the current state of antisemitism in France:

Are the French really antisemitic? - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

Rothschild: France not anti-Semitic | Jewish News | Jerusalem Post
 

Goober

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The above was a message from the Coalition of Citizens who through strategic action will prevent the implementation of Sharia Law in America... Yeah right, like that's going to happen.

Yes antisemitism exists, but no its not a big problem in France, Europe, Canada or the US. If Jews or any other religious group are victimized or discriminated against, they have legal means to remedy the situation, including criminal charges.

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As usual you post an uninformed view and lack of knowledge.
Do some legwork -

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=130385&page=1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_France#France

In July, 2005 the Pew Global Attitudes Project found that 82% of French people questioned had favorable attitudes towards Jews, the second highest percentage of the countries questioned. The Netherlands was highest at 85%.[20]

Holocaust denial and anti-Semitic speech are prohibited under the 1990 Gayssot Act.

Over the last several years, anti-Jewish violence, property destruction, and racist language has been increasing. France is home to Western Europe's largest population of Muslims (about 4 million) as well as the continent's largest community of Jews, about 600,000. Jewish leaders perceive an intensifying anti-Semitism in France, mainly among Muslims of Arab or African heritage, but also growing among Caribbean islanders from former colonies.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
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As usual you post an uninformed view and lack of knowledge.
Do some legwork -

Anti-Semitic Violence Sweeps France - ABC News

Antisemitism in Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In July, 2005 the Pew Global Attitudes Project found that 82% of French people questioned had favorable attitudes towards Jews, the second highest percentage of the countries questioned. The Netherlands was highest at 85%.[20]

Holocaust denial and anti-Semitic speech are prohibited under the 1990 Gayssot Act.

Over the last several years, anti-Jewish violence, property destruction, and racist language has been increasing. France is home to Western Europe's largest population of Muslims (about 4 million) as well as the continent's largest community of Jews, about 600,000. Jewish leaders perceive an intensifying anti-Semitism in France, mainly among Muslims of Arab or African heritage, but also growing among Caribbean islanders from former colonies.

Dec 2002
...The number of attacks on Jewish people and property had fallen for 10 years, but there was definitely a sudden upsurge after the autumn of 2000. Synagogues and Jewish schools were firebombed, and Jews wearing a kippah were insulted, sometimes assaulted. These attacks received little media coverage until November 2001, when the Observatoire du monde juif published a list. The Representative Council of Jewish Institutions in France (Crif) updated the list and presented it to the prime minister, Lionel Jospin, at its annual dinner on 1 December. Three months later the Union of Jewish Students in France (UEJF) and SOS Racisme published a further list.

These lists, based on reports from communal organisations, need some reservations. They include incidents not properly verified. The fire in the synagogue at Trappes (2), which was burnt to the ground, acquired symbolic importance, but was in fact an accident (3). And the motives of the perpetrators of real incidents were not always clear. Upon arrest some proved to have no antisemitic intentions. The use of the terms Arab and Maghrebi in the lists is misleading, since private security guards do not know the origins or identity of suspects.

Most misleadingly, all the incidents are aggregated, with graffiti and insulting letters counted together with arson and assault. This gives the total of "hundreds of antisemitic acts" that led Jean Kahn, chairman of France’s Central Jewish Consistory, to speak of "a build-up to a new Kristallnacht". Yet on the original Kristallnacht in Germany in 1938, the Nazis destroyed 191 synagogues and 7,500 shops, killed 91 Jews and sent 30,000 to concentration camps. What is there in common between the Nazi "dejudaisation" of Germany, the beginning of the Holocaust, and recent attacks on Jews in France, however serious?

All opinion polls show that French antisemitism has declined constantly since 1945. In 1966, half the population thought the election of a Jewish president out of the question. Last year the figure was under 10%.
Are the French really antisemitic? - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
>>>>

Jun 15, 2006
...in the suburbs where French Jews live "cheek and jowl" with the Muslim population, they encounter problems stemming from jealousy of their more affluent status as well as anti-Semitism. But when it comes to the French government, he said, it is assisting the Jewish population "to an extent which has never been seen [before]. You could say it's beyond the call of duty."

In addition to physical security from attack provided by the police, he listed financial support from the national government for securing buildings as well as help from individual municipalities.

"People are in fact philo-Semitic in the government, mayors, to an extent which goes beyond pure electoral calculations," he said.

He chalked initial French inaction following rising anti-Semitism at the beginning of the decade to a government "who wanted to deny the problems of security." That changed, he said, when then Prime Minister Lionel Jospin was replaced in 2002.

Rothschild described Jacques Chirac, who served as president before and after the change in administration, as "profoundly philo-Semitic" and "quite interested in the basis of Judaism."

In France on Wednesday, Olmert told the French president that he was "one of the world's great fighters against anti-Semitism."

In 2005, Chirac inaugurated the Shoah Memorial, behind which Rothschild was the driving force. The latter pointed to the high number of Jews - two-thirds of the population - saved by their countrymen during the Holocaust.

"There are more Righteous [Gentiles] recognized in France than probably any other country in the world," according to Rothschild...
Are the French really antisemitic? - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
 

Goober

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Anti-Semitism Rising in France - Jewish World - News - Israel National News

Anti-Semitism in France is strongly on the rise, according to the 2009 annual report released late last week by the Jewish Community Protection Service (SPCJ). The organization reported that 832 anti-Semitic incidents were recorded in France in 2009, as compared with 474 such incidents in 2008 - a 75% increase.
The statistics were gleaned from records in the organization's Aid to Victims Department, which cross-checked the figures with data published by the French Ministry of Home Affairs. Included were “statistics, comments, analyses and extracts from sentences handed out by courts in cases involving anti-Semitism,” according to the Council Representing Jewish Institutions of France (CRIF).

CRIF President Richard Prasquier attributed the increase to the French population's anger at Israel during its counter-terrorist operation in Gaza, Cast Lead, last January. There were 354 anti-Semitic incidents recorded in January 2009 alone - a “totally unacceptable transposition to France of the Israel-Palestine conflict,” Prasquier said. He added that “anti-Semitic words and deeds on a daily basis, often under the cover of anti-Zionism, have become a major and worryingly trivial fact of life.”

In 2007, the number of anti-Semitic incidents recorded by the French Interior Ministry was 386, a lower figure than had been recorded in previous years. But the trend had already begun to change long before the Operation Cast Lead was carried out; the 2008 figures were already 22 percent higher than those of the previous

Anti-Semitism in France - Anti-Semitism and Holocaust
According to Deputy Foreign Minister Michael Melchior, there were 320 anti-Semitic incidents in France in 2001, or nearly one every day. In the first week of this year, there were three violent anti-Semitic attacks alone in France, including an assault on a synagogue in the Paris suburb of Goussainville, where a gang of thugs hurled rocks and firebombs, smashing the synagogue's windows and damaging the building. On December 30, vandals attacked Otzar Hatorah, a Jewish school in the southeastern Paris suburb of Creteil, with firebombs, two of which exploded and caused extensive damage to several classrooms. This incident came just two months after a Jewish elementary school in the southern city of Marseilles was attacked by arsonists, who burned down part of the school and then left graffiti reading "Death to the Jews."

No less worrisome was the flap that erupted in late December, after it was revealed that the French ambassador to England, Daniel Bernard, made openly anti-Semitic remarks at a dinner party in London. In a column published in the December 17 Daily Telegraph, Barbara Amiel noted that the ambassador of a major European country - later identified as France - "politely told a gathering at my home that the current troubles in the world were all because of 'that ****ty little country Israel.' " Ambassador Bernard, according to Amiel, went on to wonder, "Why should the world be in danger of World War III because of those people?"

Jewish people in the French capital live in the shadow of hatred | World news | The Observer

His reported behaviour has shocked France and the fashion world. Yet in what locals call the pletzl – "little place" in Yiddish – it provoked little surprise. Local residents and traders say that the insult "sale juif" (dirty Jew) is a fact of daily life; asking a local if they have suffered abuse provokes a quizzical stare as if you are trying to be funny. "Bien sûr" ("of course") is the most common reply.

"It's stating the obvious," says one kippah-wearing youngster in the Rue des Rosiers, the Jewish quarter's main street. "We hear what Galliano said, or versions of it, every day, sometimes several times every day." Like many I speak to, he prefers not to be named.
 

Omicron

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Jul 28, 2010
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You guys are pretending to be slow.

http://tunes.digitalock.com/brownsugar.mp3

Get your spirits together and grow up into the Galaxy.

The reason you're getting attention is because certain philosophers didn't predict it while God did the experiment anyway.

You're dust, yet you can see Red, Green and Blue.

In order to perceive those colors, certain vector spins must happen up and into certain dimensions.

Go ahead... tell me how you know atoms/molecules exist, and then tell me whether or not you can explain why red looks like red, and why blue looks like blue.

I know why, and the deal is I reveal it upon which point Lucifer surrenders.

Yeah yeah yeah if it had kept going like in 2K years ago it would have turned out like not if they had our technology.

The deal is, Lucifer is going to go in and explore Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune and Uranus.

He is going to come back with data, and if he's an a-hole he gets cut off.
 

Gilgamesh

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Nov 15, 2014
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One of my relatives (born at 1933) said to me two days ago, that there were many Jews in Iraq before their departure to Palestine at 1948 under the influence of Zionism.
He said: They were good neighbors and friends: they came frequently to visit his family. He said: they called us as children to kindle the fire (for tea or for warming the food) for them on the Sabbath (because they considered it unlawful to kindle fire on the Sabbath!)

He said also that once there was a sedition in the country, and about 20 Jewish families came to the house of his family; these Jews had shelter there with his family until the danger was over.

Generally speaking, these Jews were rich: they captured the economy of the market, with their known intelligence in trade, and they made the Muslim merchant lose and break down; they did not cooperate with the common poor people, and did not help the needy: some of them were rancorous --> so in general they were disliked by common people.

My mother, peace be to her soul, said to me once, that they heard a Jewish woman mourn her husband and say: "Why shouldn't he go to Paradise? he had never been loyal to any Muslim [: i.e. he did not do any good to any Muslim all his life!] "

My uncle (an elderly man in the eighties of his age) said to me:

Once there were two students with him in the secondary school; they failed two successive years: so they had to be fired out of the school, and would go to the military compulsive service which is disliked by people generally every where.

So in their last chance in the second terminal exam. the Jewish teacher failed them in the exam. so they captured him in the street after the end of the school time, and beat the teacher.

Now by chance there was a street sweeper there; he came and said: Why do you beat this poor guy?
The students said: "He is a Jew!"
The sweeper said: "Akh, a Jew!?" and he came with the students to beat that teacher.

This incident explains how people were hurt by these Jews who sucked the blood of the poor and needy to increase their wealth, and who were not sincere to Muslims, but were rancorous --> so people disliked them.

This was in general; but not all Jews were bad, and some of them on the contrary were kind, educated, good neighbors and friends who were respected by the community.

Some of them even converted and became Muslims, like the well-known Dr. Ahmed Soosa who belonged to a rich Jewish family in Hilla.
Do you proved that Muslims can be as stupid and venal as everyone else.

So what? Big deal.
 

MHz

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A Jewtoy lecturing on how to escape the Matrix. No wonder your post was so short and void of any content.


You are aware that you and the whole collective are in the 'everyone' group right?