Several dead, many wounded in bus attack in Israel

earth_as_one

earth_as_one

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Colpy said:
Yep....20% of Israel (1.5 million) citizens are Muslim Arabs. They vote, elect majors, have seats in the Knesset, have served on the Supreme Court, some of them even serve in the IDF and earn the right to own and carry arms for their lifetime........

If that is ethnic cleansing, the Jews are not very good at it.
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The term "cleansing" describes an action, not a result. The term "clean" would describe a result. Israel has practiced and continues to practice ethnic "cleansing" (action).

Israel practiced ethnic cleansing when they seized the property and blocked the return of about 800,000 non-Jews during the violence in the region which occurred in 1947-8 in violation of International laws treaties and conventions. Israel also practiced ethnic cleansing when they did the same thing to hundreds of thousands of non-Jews living in the West Bank and Gaza after the 1967 war. Israel's ongoing rolling annexation of the West Bank, Jerusalem and its creation of colonies for Jewish only Israeli citizens on Palestinian land are examples of Israel's continued ethnic cleansing. Israeli laws which discriminate against non-Jews in a way that results in the loss of property and/or residency is also ethnic cleansing.

Your belief that ethnic cleansing isn't happening until its completed is absurd.

BTW goober and others... I only have so much time to respond thoughtfully to questions or challenges. Therefore I have to be pick and choose which topics and debates are worth my time. Whining for my attention won't change my mind. I won't respond to taunts or insults.
 
Goober

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earth_as_one said:
The term "cleansing" describes an action, not a result. The term "clean" would describe a result. Israel has practiced and continues to practice ethnic "cleansing" (action).

Israel practiced ethnic cleansing when they seized the property and blocked the return of about 800,000 non-Jews during the violence in the region which occurred in 1947-8 in violation of International laws treaties and conventions. Israel also practiced ethnic cleansing when they did the same thing to hundreds of thousands of non-Jews living in the West Bank and Gaza after the 1967 war. Israel's rolling annexation of the West Bank and creation of colonies for Jewish only Israeli citizens on Palestinian land. Israel's forcible removal of non-Jews from Jerusalem is ethnic cleansing. Israeli laws which discriminate against non-Jews in a way that results in the loss of property and/or residency is also ethnic cleansing.

BTW goober and others... I only have so much time to respond thoughtfully to questions or challenges. Therefore I have to be pick and choose which topics and debates are worth my time. Whining for my attention won't change my mind. I won't respond to taunts or insults.
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Nor wil you reply to simple, straight forward questions - Will Hamas sign a Peace treaty with Israel - Not a truce - Peace Treaty - Fatah will-
 
lone wolf

lone wolf

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What in Hell good has any treaty in the Muddled East been? Someone feels slighted. Someone sticks out his tongue. Someone retaliates and someone else catches the blame....
 
earth_as_one

earth_as_one

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You got my answer on that off topic question. Also

earth_as_one said:
... I only have so much time to respond thoughtfully to questions or challenges. Therefore I have to be pick and choose which topics and debates are worth my time. Whining for my attention won't change my mind. I won't respond to taunts or insults.
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Goober

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earth_as_one said:
You got my answer on that off topic question. Also
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It is not off topic - It is a question that you bandied about without a clear answer. Nothing has changed has it. If you cannot answer the simple question then state so - These threads dicsuss points that are more difficult.
 
earth_as_one

earth_as_one

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Back on subject.... I'd like to draw some conclusions about the incident which is the subject of this thread using the same standards Israeli apologists like Goober and Colpy apply to IDF attacks against Palestinian militants.

Standard 1:
Most Israeli apologist have never admitted that the IDF has ever deliberately targeted civilians or civilian infrastructure. They believe that all civilian deaths resulting from IDF actions are either accidental or collateral damage and as proof they refer to the militant to civilian casualty rate. If an IDF action results in only civilian deaths, then they conclude the incident is an accident and not deliberate. Also, their definition of militants include part time militants (aka reserves) police, fireman, ambulance drivers, paramedics, university professors, political leaders... and anyone associated in any way with armed militants and their supporters.

Standard 2:
Most Israeli apologists have never condemned the IDF's practice of using Palestinian civilians including children as human shields. They either ignore the overwhelming evidence or deny it. Instead, they claim Hamas uses fellow Palestinians as human shields whenever they fight from civilian areas.


Using the above standards, I would draw two conclusions about last Friday's attack:

Conclusion 1:
This was a military operation. 3 out of 5 of the casualties were definitely beligerents. One was a decorated sniper who had probably killed many Palestinians. One was a Staff Sargent and the other was an Intelligence expert. The other two casualties appear to be civilians, but they may have been in the reserves or an IDF supporter.

Conclusion 2:
The IDF uses Israeli civilians as human shields. The IDF engaged the enemy from a civilian area. IDF soldiers were using public transportation to get to and from their bases of operation. The IDF were mixed in with civilians and they may have not been wearing uniforms at the time they engaged the enemy.

IMO, the Conclusion 1 is possible and Conclusion 2 is ridiculous. I only drew these conclusions using the twisted logic of Israeli apologists to illustrate the flaws in their logic.
 
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mentalfloss

mentalfloss

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Shaky truce threatened by Israeli air strike

An Israeli air strike in the Gaza Strip has killed one Palestinian and wounded two others, prompting Hamas to allege that it violated a two-day-old unofficial truce.

Wednesday's missile attack, which targeted a vehicle in Rafah near the border with Egypt, raised fears of a fresh descent into violence scarcely 48 hours after factions had agreed to end rocket fire on southern Israel, on condition that the Israeli Air Force also stopped its raids.

The armed branch of the Islamic Jihad movement, Al Quds Brigade, said the dead man was Ismael al-Ismar, one of its leaders. Ismar, 34, died when the missile ploughed into his car, witnesses and members of Al Quds Brigade said.

An Israeli military spokesman confirmed the strike, saying it had targeted "an activist linked to Islamic Jihad who was implicated in attempted terrorist actions in the Sinai".

According to the Israeli military, Ismar had "operated with terror elements in the Gaza Strip which have recently made several attempts to execute terror attacks in the Sinai, on the Israel-Egypt border". The air strike prompted a flurry of mortar fire into the Eshkol region of southern Israel, which flanks the southern sector of the Israel-Gaza border, Israeli police said.

Al Quds Brigade claimed it had fired six shells towards the Kissufim crossing, which is located in the Eshkol region, in response to Ismar's killing. Immediately afterwards, Israel targeted "two terrorists who had fired rockets at Israel", the army said, in a raid which Palestinian medics said moderately wounded two members of Islamic Jihad near Deir al-Balah.

The flare-up prompted Israel's Home Front Command to order all residents living within rocket-range of the border to stay "within 15 seconds" of the nearest bomb shelter, media reports said.

Shaky truce

Gaza's Hamas government accused Israel of violating the unwritten truce with its latest air strikes and called for UN intervention.

A statement issued by Hamas read: "Such aggressive behaviour confirms that Israel has no true intention of maintaining the truce and insists on escalating the situation. We call upon the international community and the United Nations in particular to pressure Israel to stop its aggression against our people."

The latest cycle of violence erupted on Thursday, when gunmen attacked cars and buses on a desert road near the Red Sea resort town of Eilat, killing eight in an attack blamed on the Popular Resistance Committees.

In the following days, Israeli air strikes killed 15 Gazans, and armed factions in Gaza lobbed more than 100 rockets and mortar shells across the border, killing one man. During the hunt for Thursday's attackers, Israeli troops shot dead five Egyptian policemen - causing a diplomatic rift between the two countries.

Shaky truce threatened by Israeli air strike
 
darkbeaver

darkbeaver

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Colpy said:
darkbeaver said:
Beave! Where ya been??

On the flotilla?

In Libya, Offering military advice to Go Daffy????

Or lining up supporters for a run at the NDP leadership???

WB

The insanity around here has been solely lacking in amusement factor since you've gone scarce.....
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Hello Colpy, what a nice way to avoid the subject of peace with Israel. Peace with Israel is of course impossible because the main economic engine of that rotten little collection of psycopathic dog turds is war, followed by misery shadowed by destruction hand in hand with lies and fraud. Nobody will miss them and the party will go on for decades.
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earth_as_one

earth_as_one

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lone wolf said:
What happened to the part about someone outside that bus shooting at a bus?
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I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Certainly a bus was attacked. I'd say that was a civilian target, but Israeli apologists might not. For them it depends on who was on the bus. If the bus had a single IDF soldier, reservist, police officer, ... and all the other people the define as belligerents, then its a legitimate target. If belligerents mix in with the local population and don't wear uniforms, then they are using civilians as human shields. BTW, I disagree with this definition of human shields. I go with the more traditional definition, which involves abducting civilians and using them to block bullets and search for explosives.

FYI: When Israel bombed the hell out of Gaza two years ago, they gave no warning just like this attack. The very first target was a Gaza police academy during a graduation ceremony. The IDF bombed the compound as school children were queuing up for class at the school across the street. Police officers and school children were among the first dead and injured. Colpy and other Israeli apologists described this attack as legitimate since some Gaza police officers are members of Hamas and some members of Hamas are armed militants. Israel also bombed schools, universities, government buildings, hospitals, fire stations, bomb shelters... and many other targets which I would define as civilian. However, since some of the people killed were members of Hamas, Israeli apologists also defined these targets as military because of the overall civilian to militant casualty rate. If no militants were killed during an attack, then they claimed it was a mistake and the fault of militants for not wearing uniforms at all times and mixing in with the locals.... just like the IDF sniper, Staff Sargent and Intel expert did during this attack.
 
Goober

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earth_as_one said:
I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Certainly a bus was attacked. I'd say that was a civilian target, but Israeli apologists might not. For them it depends on who was on the bus. If the bus had a single IDF soldier, reservist, police officer, ... and all the other people the define as belligerents, then its a legitimate target. If belligerents mix in with the local population and don't wear uniforms, then they are using civilians as human shields. BTW, I disagree with this definition of human shields. I go with the more traditional definition, which involves abducting civilians and using them to block bullets and search for explosives.

FYI: When Israel bombed the hell out of Gaza two years ago, they gave no warning just like this attack. The very first target was a Gaza police academy during a graduation ceremony. The IDF bombed the compound as school children were queuing up for class at the school across the street. Police officers and school children were among the first dead and injured. Colpy and other Israeli apologists described this attack as legitimate since some Gaza police officers are members of Hamas and some members of Hamas are armed militants. Israel also bombed schools, universities, government buildings, hospitals, fire stations, bomb shelters... and many other targets which I would define as civilian. However, since some of the people killed were members of Hamas, Israeli apologists also defined these targets as military because of the overall civilian to militant casualty rate. If no militants were killed during an attack, then they claimed it was a mistake and the fault of militants for not wearing uniforms at all times and mixing in with the locals.... just like the IDF sniper, Staff Sargent and Intel expert did during this attack.
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So does Hamas want a Peace Treaty with Israel - No - why - They want to eliminate all Jews - Supporting Hamas makes you complicit in an attempt at Genocide - That is why I insult crud like yourself. You live in burbia, go to work, go home to wifey po - and know SFA ( Sweet Fuk All) about what the results of Ethnic Cleansing are - I do - How they were planned, the aftermath, then the misery. And yes you could not find logic if it was your ass with both hands.
 
A

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Goober said:
So does Hamas want a Peace Treaty with Israel - No - why - They want to eliminate all Jews - Supporting Hamas makes you complicit in an attempt at Genocide - That is why I insult crud like yourself. You live in burbia, go to work, go home to wifey po - and know SFA ( Sweet Fuk All) about what the results of Ethnic Cleansing are - I do - How they were planned, the aftermath, then the misery. And yes you could not find logic if it was your ass with both hands.
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You're wrong and have no idea what you're talking about.

Almost unnoticed on Wednesday, as two rival Palestinian factions agreed to bury the hatchet, was the head of Hamas announcing that his group, which exists for armed struggle against Israel, was willing to give peace with the Jewish state a chance, too.


"We are not declaring war on anyone," Mashad said, but added, after vowing to give peace a chance, that he didn't expect much, "because Israel does not respect us, and because Israel has rejected all our initiatives and because Israel deliberately rejects Palestinian rights, rejects Fatah members as well as Hamas."

Read more: Hamas leader broaches peace while Israel's prime minister says peace is impossible with a terrorist organization - Global Spin - TIME.com
 
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