You don't fool me with your deflecting, click on my quote or the one you C/P ed as posted by me and it takes you to another thread..
also against the rules;-)
“2083 – A European Declaration of Independence”
- Thread starter earth_as_one
- Start date
You don't fool me with your deflecting, click on my quote or the one you C/P ed as posted by me and it takes you to another thread..
also against the rules;-)
First Colpy you are right the German War Machine and the propaganda department went on
radio and announced a declaration of Total War. The fight was on, Coventry, Dresden and
so on reduced to rubble to follow the total war declaration. It was Kill or be Killed with nothing
in between. Starting to sound familiar? Actually it is. The Nazi Movement was not Left wing
it was Right wing under a program of National Socialism which was quite different from the
original teachings of Soviet Socialism that was hijacked by Stalin and turned into something
quite different.
Flash forward to the beginning of the twenty first century. Nazi style Fascism and the Muslim
religious Fascism are one in the same. The two societies, modern western civilization and the
Muslim Ideology will escalate into some very unpleasant actions in the coming yeas. 2001,
ushered in the collision officially and is growing everyday. I for one can see the day when the
fight will be in our own streets. We Are Not At War With a few radical fundamentalists, no we
are at war with Islam itself. The reason is because the moderate elements do not speak up
and put the radicals in check. When that happens the radicals concentrate power and the
moderates are silenced by fear. Taliban is a prime example of what happens when good folks
do nothing.
Eventually, unfortunately the decent into war will come out on our streets, it will take some time
but the future has made room for such events. We will see more and more racism both ways.
Ethnic cleansing is coming to a village near you if the present is allowed to go on unchecked.
Multiculturalism, that even I once believed in is little more than a cruel joke. It is being abused,
and used to down grade the laws in our country. The time has come to determine who is and
who is not a Canadian in the true sense of the word. Racist statement? No actually there are
many Muslim people who do abide by the laws of our country and they should be encouraged.
Those who would engage in planting bombs or collecting money for terrorist groups and those
who encourage or pay the passage of young men to go to foreign lands to train as radical
soldiers for Islam, Should have the citizenship revoked and they themselves should be deported.
If you are coming here from where ever, if you are found to be disloyal you should not be allowed
to stay, simply put.
The time has come to stop accommodating all the minority groups and start treating everyone as
Canadians. If you want special treatment then leave. I don't see Ukrainians, or Polish people
asking for special treatment. Jamaicans, and Spaniard, British or Irish, the Japanese, they don'
seem to need special treatment. They came here to be Canadians and contribute to the new
society they entered. Time to drop the old ways off at the point of entry and come and join a new
way of life where we are tolerant of each other. Perhaps i don't sound all that tolerant in this piece
but I am being tolerant. I am saying for those who are embracing the changing world all is well,
and welcome. For those who want or expect that I have to change everything about my way of life
to accommodate them, they took take another look at their living accommodations.
We have one set of laws, Sharia Law has no place in Canadian Society, either for society or for a
specific group in the society.
The time has come to demand our government gets a backbone. While we are at it, special favours
for Christians and other religions have to come to an end as well. Everyone should be directed by the
law of the land. All churches should pay all the taxes everyone pays and they get credit for their
charity work, everything else is taxable and subject to all laws and taxes.
Am I afraid of Islam no, but I am concerned that we tolerate certain groups within that segment of the
population that advocate violence and intimidation. At some point if we allow the situation to go
unchecked and unchallenged it will lead to violence, civil unrest, an inflaming of racism, discrimination
and even the threat of civil war.
The manifesto of a blood thirsty killer and mad man might be enough to have people wake up and
realize the uneasy world full of serious danger, we are leaving our grandchildren. We can make a
difference and appeasing violent groups bent on our destruction is not going to improve the condition
of anyone. (end of rant)
radio and announced a declaration of Total War. The fight was on, Coventry, Dresden and
so on reduced to rubble to follow the total war declaration. It was Kill or be Killed with nothing
in between. Starting to sound familiar? Actually it is. The Nazi Movement was not Left wing
it was Right wing under a program of National Socialism which was quite different from the
original teachings of Soviet Socialism that was hijacked by Stalin and turned into something
quite different.
Flash forward to the beginning of the twenty first century. Nazi style Fascism and the Muslim
religious Fascism are one in the same. The two societies, modern western civilization and the
Muslim Ideology will escalate into some very unpleasant actions in the coming yeas. 2001,
ushered in the collision officially and is growing everyday. I for one can see the day when the
fight will be in our own streets. We Are Not At War With a few radical fundamentalists, no we
are at war with Islam itself. The reason is because the moderate elements do not speak up
and put the radicals in check. When that happens the radicals concentrate power and the
moderates are silenced by fear. Taliban is a prime example of what happens when good folks
do nothing.
Eventually, unfortunately the decent into war will come out on our streets, it will take some time
but the future has made room for such events. We will see more and more racism both ways.
Ethnic cleansing is coming to a village near you if the present is allowed to go on unchecked.
Multiculturalism, that even I once believed in is little more than a cruel joke. It is being abused,
and used to down grade the laws in our country. The time has come to determine who is and
who is not a Canadian in the true sense of the word. Racist statement? No actually there are
many Muslim people who do abide by the laws of our country and they should be encouraged.
Those who would engage in planting bombs or collecting money for terrorist groups and those
who encourage or pay the passage of young men to go to foreign lands to train as radical
soldiers for Islam, Should have the citizenship revoked and they themselves should be deported.
If you are coming here from where ever, if you are found to be disloyal you should not be allowed
to stay, simply put.
The time has come to stop accommodating all the minority groups and start treating everyone as
Canadians. If you want special treatment then leave. I don't see Ukrainians, or Polish people
asking for special treatment. Jamaicans, and Spaniard, British or Irish, the Japanese, they don'
seem to need special treatment. They came here to be Canadians and contribute to the new
society they entered. Time to drop the old ways off at the point of entry and come and join a new
way of life where we are tolerant of each other. Perhaps i don't sound all that tolerant in this piece
but I am being tolerant. I am saying for those who are embracing the changing world all is well,
and welcome. For those who want or expect that I have to change everything about my way of life
to accommodate them, they took take another look at their living accommodations.
We have one set of laws, Sharia Law has no place in Canadian Society, either for society or for a
specific group in the society.
The time has come to demand our government gets a backbone. While we are at it, special favours
for Christians and other religions have to come to an end as well. Everyone should be directed by the
law of the land. All churches should pay all the taxes everyone pays and they get credit for their
charity work, everything else is taxable and subject to all laws and taxes.
Am I afraid of Islam no, but I am concerned that we tolerate certain groups within that segment of the
population that advocate violence and intimidation. At some point if we allow the situation to go
unchecked and unchallenged it will lead to violence, civil unrest, an inflaming of racism, discrimination
and even the threat of civil war.
The manifesto of a blood thirsty killer and mad man might be enough to have people wake up and
realize the uneasy world full of serious danger, we are leaving our grandchildren. We can make a
difference and appeasing violent groups bent on our destruction is not going to improve the condition
of anyone. (end of rant)
1) This is not a duplicate thread.
2) Your post was in a public thread, not a PM
3) My post was not internet stalking. You posted in both threads. I thought your post in the other thread was more appropriately replied to and more on topic here, where we are talking about the Oslo nutjob's ideology which is apparently closely aligned with your ideology.
Feel free to report me and if I did violate forum rules, then I support removing my post and you get an apology from me.
Regarding deflecting. I'm on topic when I point out similarities between the Oslo nutjob's ideology and anyone else, including you. In fact, I see bring the similarities to your attention as doing you a favor.
Unlike some childish people:roll: I only report spammers...
And who made you a mod to move posts and decide where they are appropriate???
DG, I read what you wrote and it is on topic. I appreciate your sincerity. Based on what I read, I would not class your opinions as an irrational hatred.
I'm curious if you read the C&P I did of the Oslo nutjob's manifesto in the first post in this thread? Perhaps you can explain to me how your ideology differs from or aligns with the Oslo nutjob.
BTW, I defend free speech and I would have defended the right of the Oslo nutcase to express his viewpoint up until he acted or called people to act in a violent illegal manner.
I also feel the same way about DS and others who (IMO) have an irrational hatred towards an identifiable group.
I'm curious if you read the C&P I did of the Oslo nutjob's manifesto in the first post in this thread? Perhaps you can explain to me how your ideology differs from or aligns with the Oslo nutjob.
BTW, I defend free speech and I would have defended the right of the Oslo nutcase to express his viewpoint up until he acted or called people to act in a violent illegal manner.
I also feel the same way about DS and others who (IMO) have an irrational hatred towards an identifiable group.
You're right....I hate an identifiable group...Terrorists....don't you??? yes or no?
It just so happens that since 2000 and I provided the link in another thread that the majority of terrorist acts have been perpetrated by islamic extremists and most often against their own....
But you still don't get it or pretend not to...that Bush thread was my ying to your yang you one trick pony.
One of your first threads in this forum was this one...
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/international-politics/49047-israel-lebanon-conflict.html
Now that one didn't gather much momentum...but you didn't get discouraged and kept trying and managed to get a few followers....for you hatred of Israel.
Now I support freedom of speech....even your... ...but I also have a right to be bored with your Shyte....
End of rant...and cary on
I don't hate anyone except those that don't pay their bills or lie. There are not all that many people in Canada that have an irrational hatred of muslims either. There are a lot that do not like the nutbars that run the islamic churches as a religion of hatred. How may Canadians do you see running down the street shouting death to islam? Or dragging a muslim through the streets until his head pulls off?
Multiculturalism is a colossal failure. It creates divisions in our society by helping immigrants keep their culture instead of becoming Canadians. If they want to bring their culture, traditions and wars along why come to Canada?
Personally, I make it a practice never to read the nonsense rantings of the depraved.
Just for fun I took a quick look at the Canadian list of banned terrorist organizations.
At a quick count, 24 of the banned organizations are Islamist.
13 are not.
Right. Islamist freaks are obviously not a problem. (insert rolled eyes here)
BTW, I included both the PFLP and the PLF in the NON Islamist section.......as they appear to be more political terrorists than religious ones......
Oh....and there were NO fundamentalist Christian groups..........jusy FYI.
Just for fun I took a quick look at the Canadian list of banned terrorist organizations.
At a quick count, 24 of the banned organizations are Islamist.
13 are not.
Right. Islamist freaks are obviously not a problem. (insert rolled eyes here)
BTW, I included both the PFLP and the PLF in the NON Islamist section.......as they appear to be more political terrorists than religious ones......
Oh....and there were NO fundamentalist Christian groups..........jusy FYI.
Islam is intolerant there is no question about that, they demand that all convert to their beliefs
or die, how could that fit into a democracy? Of course it can't square with democracy,. How is
it that Canadians try as they do to integrate intolerance into a societal democratic society?
Even in Libya, what are we dealing with? Nothing short of tribes. Yes we are trying to defend
the positions of the various tribesmen against the current administration. No matter how hard
you try you cannot integrate societal people with tribal people. Societal people try to find ways
to accommodate others, Tribes defend the tribe first, they are loyal to the tribe first and the
concept of nationhood is almost inconceivable. Therefore how do we expect them to come
here and be loyal Canadians. It is time we started thinking about this and it time for government
to meet its responsibility to those who are already Loyal Canadians.
All people coming here should be required to take a number of oaths. Loyalty to the country,
loyal only to the Laws of Canada, and an oath requiring them to inform on all who would want
to do harm to this country.
What would be the impact on our society if we required this as a prerequisite to becoming a
citizen of Canada
The Oslo nut job is irrational he hates for the sake of hatred. All multiculturalism is to be
shunned. That is not possible in the present world at least in the Western Democracies.
People come from all over the world and they bring with them their traditions and their
celebrations. That is great it brings people together in a positive way, it give people a
better understanding of peoples origins.
The Muslims however are determined to wipe out every other society except their own,
the come to the new land with the intent on imposing their Sharia law on the new society
they enter and on the Muslims who moved to the new land to get away from the crazy
world they were forced to endure. I personally know some Muslims who I find fascinating
for the most part.. Those who have a professional education do not think the same as
the militants and hard liners. We find fundamentalists and moderates in all societies even
in tribal ones.
The fundamentalist movement however is never vocally opposed by the moderates and
if they are allowed to continue with their violence and bombings it will lead to civil war and
severe challenges for a number of societies. The nut job, doesn't propose solutions he
is just crazy and believes in just killing people. For what purpose? Just like the intolerance
he professed to be against he committed an even more monstrous crime.
I think he should face the ultimate penalty execution. What he did was indefensible in any
form unless someone is crazy. I am not advocating hatred, ethnic cleansing, civil war, or
discrimination. I am merely pointing out that if we continue to ignore the problem like we
appear to be doing, we are facing some very unstable times as others will deal with it in a
much different manner. We need the moderate Islamic Community to take a firm stand
against the fundamentalists and terrorists. We also need a government with a backbone
and some guts to say no you will obey the law, and you will behave in the manner society
demands of you, or you will lose your citizenship and be deported.
I differ greatly from the nut job and I could never defend his actions, I also believe you have
to be aware of the collision of cultures that is coming right at us in Canada
or die, how could that fit into a democracy? Of course it can't square with democracy,. How is
it that Canadians try as they do to integrate intolerance into a societal democratic society?
Even in Libya, what are we dealing with? Nothing short of tribes. Yes we are trying to defend
the positions of the various tribesmen against the current administration. No matter how hard
you try you cannot integrate societal people with tribal people. Societal people try to find ways
to accommodate others, Tribes defend the tribe first, they are loyal to the tribe first and the
concept of nationhood is almost inconceivable. Therefore how do we expect them to come
here and be loyal Canadians. It is time we started thinking about this and it time for government
to meet its responsibility to those who are already Loyal Canadians.
All people coming here should be required to take a number of oaths. Loyalty to the country,
loyal only to the Laws of Canada, and an oath requiring them to inform on all who would want
to do harm to this country.
What would be the impact on our society if we required this as a prerequisite to becoming a
citizen of Canada
The Oslo nut job is irrational he hates for the sake of hatred. All multiculturalism is to be
shunned. That is not possible in the present world at least in the Western Democracies.
People come from all over the world and they bring with them their traditions and their
celebrations. That is great it brings people together in a positive way, it give people a
better understanding of peoples origins.
The Muslims however are determined to wipe out every other society except their own,
the come to the new land with the intent on imposing their Sharia law on the new society
they enter and on the Muslims who moved to the new land to get away from the crazy
world they were forced to endure. I personally know some Muslims who I find fascinating
for the most part.. Those who have a professional education do not think the same as
the militants and hard liners. We find fundamentalists and moderates in all societies even
in tribal ones.
The fundamentalist movement however is never vocally opposed by the moderates and
if they are allowed to continue with their violence and bombings it will lead to civil war and
severe challenges for a number of societies. The nut job, doesn't propose solutions he
is just crazy and believes in just killing people. For what purpose? Just like the intolerance
he professed to be against he committed an even more monstrous crime.
I think he should face the ultimate penalty execution. What he did was indefensible in any
form unless someone is crazy. I am not advocating hatred, ethnic cleansing, civil war, or
discrimination. I am merely pointing out that if we continue to ignore the problem like we
appear to be doing, we are facing some very unstable times as others will deal with it in a
much different manner. We need the moderate Islamic Community to take a firm stand
against the fundamentalists and terrorists. We also need a government with a backbone
and some guts to say no you will obey the law, and you will behave in the manner society
demands of you, or you will lose your citizenship and be deported.
I differ greatly from the nut job and I could never defend his actions, I also believe you have
to be aware of the collision of cultures that is coming right at us in Canada
DG, I don't believe you or everyone who has a neocon ideology are likely to commit acts of violence. The Oslo nutjob was a neocon extremist and you can share many of his opinions regarding Islam and not come to the same conclusion regarding the need to act quickly and decisively to against the cultural genocide threat posed by Muslim infiltration of Western society.
But I am going to connect the dots from how common neocon ideology led to this sick person trying to kill as many Norwegian politicians and their family members as possible.
First a list what I believe are the Oslo killer's core ideologies regarding Islam, Muslims and multiculturalism which I believe have neocon origins:
1) "Moderate" Islam is a fiction
2) Muslims are inherently violent
3) "Jihad" refers to the violent struggle to destroy non-Muslim societies and bring them forcibly into the Islamic world
4) The radical left and its Islamist allies intend to erode western values and disarm western nations in a time of terror
5) The Muslim immigration invasion is a threat to Western Democracies which will lead to Sharia Law and eventually dhimmitude
6) The mainstream media is dominated by liberals and lefties
7) Banning the Burka and Niqab and other forms of overt Islam is not racist or a limit on personal freedoms.
8 ) Islamic fundamentalism is the primary source of terrorism
9) Lefty and Liberal cultural self loathing is a threat to Western values
10) We must act quickly and decisively to defend ourselves against the cultural genocide threat posed by Muslim infiltration of our society.
I agree that ideology 10, is not a core neocon ideology, but it is a logical progression of the irrational Muslim hatred propagated by mainstream popular neocons which dominate Cable News and Shock Jock radio.
The Oslo Killer then decided that the real threat was not Muslims, who are what they are and must be isolated and banned from Western Society. No the real threat to Western Culture are political leaders leaders who embrace multiculturalism and are blind to the threat posed by Western Islamization.
He then developed a plan with the purpose of killing as many Norwegian politicians and members of their families as possible. He became a farmer in order to legally get his hands on fertilizers which could be used to make explosives and began training for his mission. His atrocity was the result of years of careful planning and thought. I also am 99% certain this person did not act alone and was helped by many people who share his extreme neocon viewpoint.
BTW, I don't believe that everyone who embraces the same ideologies as the Oslo killer will resort to violence. But I have no doubts that neocon inspired irrational hatred towards Muslims was his core motivation for killing Norwegian politicians and their familes.
Lets move on to responsibility. I believe that only the Oslo killer and those who helped him are responsible for this atrocity. I don't blame neocons in general for his actions. I believe that popular cable news and radio shock jock neocons promote irrational fear and hatred of Muslims and have created a nurturing environment for the potential growth and proliferation of violent neocon extremism.
When antiSemites promote the same kind of irrational hatred towards Jews, we recognize it as evil and people who disagree will say something or report it.
When neocon extremists promote the same kind of irrational hatred towards Muslims, its not recognized as the same kind of evil as antiSemitism and people even people who disagree with it tend to remain silent and do nothing. More shocking is how wide spread and commonly accept irrational hatred towards Muslims has become in our society. The Oslo killer isn't alone in his viewpoints. He's just an extreme example of where irrational hatred can lead.
Moving on to future implications of this atrocity. Neocon extremism leading to violence is a real threat. Consider the future assuming only one in a million neocons is as extreme as the Oslo killer and plans to heed the Oslo killer's call to arms and copy his actions. That's why I think ignoring/belittling/obscuring the link between the Oslo killer and neocon ideology would be a huge mistake.
But I am going to connect the dots from how common neocon ideology led to this sick person trying to kill as many Norwegian politicians and their family members as possible.
First a list what I believe are the Oslo killer's core ideologies regarding Islam, Muslims and multiculturalism which I believe have neocon origins:
1) "Moderate" Islam is a fiction
2) Muslims are inherently violent
3) "Jihad" refers to the violent struggle to destroy non-Muslim societies and bring them forcibly into the Islamic world
4) The radical left and its Islamist allies intend to erode western values and disarm western nations in a time of terror
5) The Muslim immigration invasion is a threat to Western Democracies which will lead to Sharia Law and eventually dhimmitude
6) The mainstream media is dominated by liberals and lefties
7) Banning the Burka and Niqab and other forms of overt Islam is not racist or a limit on personal freedoms.
8 ) Islamic fundamentalism is the primary source of terrorism
9) Lefty and Liberal cultural self loathing is a threat to Western values
10) We must act quickly and decisively to defend ourselves against the cultural genocide threat posed by Muslim infiltration of our society.
I agree that ideology 10, is not a core neocon ideology, but it is a logical progression of the irrational Muslim hatred propagated by mainstream popular neocons which dominate Cable News and Shock Jock radio.
The Oslo Killer then decided that the real threat was not Muslims, who are what they are and must be isolated and banned from Western Society. No the real threat to Western Culture are political leaders leaders who embrace multiculturalism and are blind to the threat posed by Western Islamization.
He then developed a plan with the purpose of killing as many Norwegian politicians and members of their families as possible. He became a farmer in order to legally get his hands on fertilizers which could be used to make explosives and began training for his mission. His atrocity was the result of years of careful planning and thought. I also am 99% certain this person did not act alone and was helped by many people who share his extreme neocon viewpoint.
BTW, I don't believe that everyone who embraces the same ideologies as the Oslo killer will resort to violence. But I have no doubts that neocon inspired irrational hatred towards Muslims was his core motivation for killing Norwegian politicians and their familes.
Lets move on to responsibility. I believe that only the Oslo killer and those who helped him are responsible for this atrocity. I don't blame neocons in general for his actions. I believe that popular cable news and radio shock jock neocons promote irrational fear and hatred of Muslims and have created a nurturing environment for the potential growth and proliferation of violent neocon extremism.
When antiSemites promote the same kind of irrational hatred towards Jews, we recognize it as evil and people who disagree will say something or report it.
When neocon extremists promote the same kind of irrational hatred towards Muslims, its not recognized as the same kind of evil as antiSemitism and people even people who disagree with it tend to remain silent and do nothing. More shocking is how wide spread and commonly accept irrational hatred towards Muslims has become in our society. The Oslo killer isn't alone in his viewpoints. He's just an extreme example of where irrational hatred can lead.
Moving on to future implications of this atrocity. Neocon extremism leading to violence is a real threat. Consider the future assuming only one in a million neocons is as extreme as the Oslo killer and plans to heed the Oslo killer's call to arms and copy his actions. That's why I think ignoring/belittling/obscuring the link between the Oslo killer and neocon ideology would be a huge mistake.
1. Moderate Islam IS a fiction.........Islam means "submission". There is no moderation in submission to the will of God. There are, however, moderate Muslims..........and I would argue they are Islamic heretics, and good for them.1) "Moderate" Islam is a fiction
2) Muslims are inherently violent
3) "Jihad" refers to the violent struggle to destroy non-Muslim societies and bring them forcibly into the Islamic world
4) The radical left and its Islamist allies intend to erode western values and disarm western nations in a time of terror
5) The Muslim immigration invasion is a threat to Western Democracies which will lead to Sharia Law and eventually dhimmitude
6) The mainstream media is dominated by liberals and lefties
7) Banning the Burka and Niqab and other forms of overt Islam is not racist or a limit on personal freedoms.
Islamic fundamentalism is the primary source of terrorism
9) Lefty and Liberal cultural self loathing is a threat to Western values
10) We must act quickly and decisively to defend ourselves against the cultural genocide threat posed by Muslim infiltration of our society.
2. Mankind is inherently violent. Muslims are not much different, except in that they have instruction from God.....
3. Yep. At least it means that to a very significant minority of fundamentalist Muslims, and it is what THEY think that matters.
4. I'm not sure what that means.
5. No.....it is not immigration, it is the failure to insist that immigrants completely adopt western values of the equality of women, democracy, freedom of speech, and the secular nature of our society, or GTFO..........the failure is ours.
6. No
7. No, but if we stick with the principles expressed in No. 5, we won't need to ban them.........oh, and Yes they need to be lifted in places were identification is required.
8. Yep. Deal with it.
9. ABSOLUTELY! The crux of the matter.
10. It ain't so bad here....but yes, we need to insist to immigrants that they whole-heartedly accept THIS superior political culture........if it isn't superior, why are they here??????.
"Democracy, immigration, multiculturalism. Pick any two."
James C. Bennett
I pick numbers one and two.....yourself????
That's fine Colpy. We mostly disagree and I'm ok with that. You are polite and aren't irrationally threatening anyone with your irrational hatred of Islam.
I support your right to free speech and if someone tried to silence you, I speak out in your defense (not that you would need help), even though I believe you have an irrational hatred and fear of Muslims and strongly disagree with most of your opions. My problem would be if you acted violently on your irrational hatreds. That's the line the Oslo nutjob crossed and most neocons like yourself don't and probably never will.
BTW, if you read the nutjob's manifest you'll see its also a call to arms against the Muslim cultural genocide threat. As a neocon that I respect, I'd like your opinion regarding these two questions:
1) How likely is it in your opinion that another neocon extremist will attempt to commit a similar atrocity?
Seriously because according to my logic the chances are high.
Rationale:
Given that there must be hundreds of millions of neocons
Assuming the likelhood that someone would be crazy and extreme enough to heed the Oslo nutjob's call to arms and copy his actions is a million to one
Conclusion:
Chances of a copy cat atrocity or some other neocon extremist violence is a virtual certainty.
Implications: Canada is just as vulnerable to neocon extremism as anywhere else. I'm surprised this didn't happen in the US where neocon inspired irrational hatred towards Muslims probably far more rampant than Norway and more populated.
BTW, I sincerely hope I'm wrong in my logic and I certainly have no ill will towards anyone. I hoping you or someone might be able to defeat my logic.
2) What is the correct action to take if you are aware a neocon acquaintance is planning to commit a violent crime?
RE: "Democracy, immigration, multiculturalism. Pick any two."
The inherent assumption of your question, that you can only pick 2 of 3 is flawed along the same lines as this question:
Have you stopped beating your wife?
Also consider the logical impossibility of choice 3 without choice 2. How is it possible to have multiple cultures in Canada if we never had any immigration?
I pick 1, 2 and 3
I support your right to free speech and if someone tried to silence you, I speak out in your defense (not that you would need help), even though I believe you have an irrational hatred and fear of Muslims and strongly disagree with most of your opions. My problem would be if you acted violently on your irrational hatreds. That's the line the Oslo nutjob crossed and most neocons like yourself don't and probably never will.
BTW, if you read the nutjob's manifest you'll see its also a call to arms against the Muslim cultural genocide threat. As a neocon that I respect, I'd like your opinion regarding these two questions:
1) How likely is it in your opinion that another neocon extremist will attempt to commit a similar atrocity?
Seriously because according to my logic the chances are high.
Rationale:
Given that there must be hundreds of millions of neocons
Assuming the likelhood that someone would be crazy and extreme enough to heed the Oslo nutjob's call to arms and copy his actions is a million to one
Conclusion:
Chances of a copy cat atrocity or some other neocon extremist violence is a virtual certainty.
Implications: Canada is just as vulnerable to neocon extremism as anywhere else. I'm surprised this didn't happen in the US where neocon inspired irrational hatred towards Muslims probably far more rampant than Norway and more populated.
BTW, I sincerely hope I'm wrong in my logic and I certainly have no ill will towards anyone. I hoping you or someone might be able to defeat my logic.
2) What is the correct action to take if you are aware a neocon acquaintance is planning to commit a violent crime?
RE: "Democracy, immigration, multiculturalism. Pick any two."
The inherent assumption of your question, that you can only pick 2 of 3 is flawed along the same lines as this question:
Have you stopped beating your wife?
Also consider the logical impossibility of choice 3 without choice 2. How is it possible to have multiple cultures in Canada if we never had any immigration?
I pick 1, 2 and 3
Last edited:
What does neo-con, islamist,anarchist, neo-stalinist or any other label have to do with the question? You seem to be implying that "neocons" are inherently more violent than any other fringe group, which is a fallacy. If you know someone is planning to commit a violent crime, your moral obligation, regardless of political affliation of ANYONE involved, is to try and stop it.
Exactly!
And my point is I suspect some/many of Oslo nutjob's neocon buddies knew. A person doesn't get this organized and prepared without any related background without some help. A person with this big of an ego had to be sharing his superior viewpoints as he played with explosives, became a marksmen and tried to figure out where all the power elite and their families hung out. Somehow, no one said anything to authorities???? I suppose its possible that no one knew what nutjob planned, but I find that highly unlikely.
The most likely reasons mostly involve people knowing and remaining silent and/or helping...
And my point is I suspect some/many of Oslo nutjob's neocon buddies knew. A person doesn't get this organized and prepared without any related background without some help. A person with this big of an ego had to be sharing his superior viewpoints as he played with explosives, became a marksmen and tried to figure out where all the power elite and their families hung out. Somehow, no one said anything to authorities???? I suppose its possible that no one knew what nutjob planned, but I find that highly unlikely.
The most likely reasons mostly involve people knowing and remaining silent and/or helping...
Again just to recap...
A Norwegian obsessed with an extreme neocon ideology came to the conclusion that Muslim immigration is a mortal threat to western culture. He concluded that Muslims will continue to immigrate and breed until they outnumber Norwegians. Once Muslims outnumber the Norwegians, they will use democratic means to impose Sharia law on the good citizens of Norway, eventually causing Norwegians to become enslaved into Dhimmitude. He concludes the west must protect itself from this Muslim cultural threat through forced assimilation, banning Muslim immigration and cultural isolation. The real enemy he concluded aren't Muslims who can't help being what they are. The real threat is Norwegian political leaders who embrace multiculturalism and are blind to the threat posed by Western Islamization.
In order to save Norway from cultural extinction, he planned to kill as many Norwegian politicians and members of their families as possible. He became a farmer in order to legally get his hands on fertilizers which could be used to make explosives. He trained to use firearms and became an expert marksmen. Just over a week ago he put his plan into action. He parked a car bomb outside the Prime Minister's office and set the timer. Dressed as a police officer, he caught a ferry to an island where political leaders and their families vacationed. When the diversionary car bomb blew up in from of the PM's office killing dozens of people and injuring scores of others, he was already busy killing men, women and children who had no where to run from the heavily armed man. Some people survived by pretending to be dead. He spared a child's life when he begged that he was too young to die. The killing spree last at least 90 minutes before the police realized what was happening and got to the island. He was captured unharmed and is held in isolation awaiting trial. He killed about 80 people in all, mostly young people in their late teens and early twenties. His atrocity appears to be the result of years of careful planning and thought.
He wrote a manifest clearly explaining how he came to irrationally hate Muslims and why he committed this atrocity. He posted the manifest online and emailed it to about 1800 facebook friends and associates. The manifest also includes a call to arms for other right thinking defenders of Western Culture, bomb making recipes, strategies and tactics for carrying out similar missions. The manifest has gone viral on the internet. Copy cat violence is a virtual certainty.
His manifest references names of people and websites that "inspired" him to hate and kill. People on this forum will recognize his influences.
People
Robert Spencer, Hugh Fitzgerald, Aluma Dankowitz, Bat Ye'or, Pamela Geller, Bernard Lewis, Daniel Pipes...
Website:
AmericanThinker.com, jihadwatch.org, memri.org, faithfreedom.org, theReligionOfPeace.com, LittleGreenFootballs.com...
The Oslo nutjob probably did not act alone. Other people had to know what this NeoConservative Extremist was planning and were either silent and/or helped him.
This atrocity is an example of where irrational hatred as inspired by extreme neoconservativism can lead. I read his manifest and recognized what he wrote. Many people here on this forum share this nutjob's ideologies and have written similar tirades of vile racist filth and trash as the person who gunned down all those people recently.
I have no ill will towards anyone. But if you listen to the same neoconservative extremists, visit the same neoconservative extremist websites and find yourself sharing many of the same extreme opinions and ideologies as this person, you should seek help before you hurt someone.
I recommend visit your local Mosque and trying to learn more about Islam. Once you see Muslims as people rather than things, you will probably ditch extreme neoconservative irrational hatred and fear of them.
A Norwegian obsessed with an extreme neocon ideology came to the conclusion that Muslim immigration is a mortal threat to western culture. He concluded that Muslims will continue to immigrate and breed until they outnumber Norwegians. Once Muslims outnumber the Norwegians, they will use democratic means to impose Sharia law on the good citizens of Norway, eventually causing Norwegians to become enslaved into Dhimmitude. He concludes the west must protect itself from this Muslim cultural threat through forced assimilation, banning Muslim immigration and cultural isolation. The real enemy he concluded aren't Muslims who can't help being what they are. The real threat is Norwegian political leaders who embrace multiculturalism and are blind to the threat posed by Western Islamization.
In order to save Norway from cultural extinction, he planned to kill as many Norwegian politicians and members of their families as possible. He became a farmer in order to legally get his hands on fertilizers which could be used to make explosives. He trained to use firearms and became an expert marksmen. Just over a week ago he put his plan into action. He parked a car bomb outside the Prime Minister's office and set the timer. Dressed as a police officer, he caught a ferry to an island where political leaders and their families vacationed. When the diversionary car bomb blew up in from of the PM's office killing dozens of people and injuring scores of others, he was already busy killing men, women and children who had no where to run from the heavily armed man. Some people survived by pretending to be dead. He spared a child's life when he begged that he was too young to die. The killing spree last at least 90 minutes before the police realized what was happening and got to the island. He was captured unharmed and is held in isolation awaiting trial. He killed about 80 people in all, mostly young people in their late teens and early twenties. His atrocity appears to be the result of years of careful planning and thought.
He wrote a manifest clearly explaining how he came to irrationally hate Muslims and why he committed this atrocity. He posted the manifest online and emailed it to about 1800 facebook friends and associates. The manifest also includes a call to arms for other right thinking defenders of Western Culture, bomb making recipes, strategies and tactics for carrying out similar missions. The manifest has gone viral on the internet. Copy cat violence is a virtual certainty.
His manifest references names of people and websites that "inspired" him to hate and kill. People on this forum will recognize his influences.
People
Robert Spencer, Hugh Fitzgerald, Aluma Dankowitz, Bat Ye'or, Pamela Geller, Bernard Lewis, Daniel Pipes...
Website:
AmericanThinker.com, jihadwatch.org, memri.org, faithfreedom.org, theReligionOfPeace.com, LittleGreenFootballs.com...
The Oslo nutjob probably did not act alone. Other people had to know what this NeoConservative Extremist was planning and were either silent and/or helped him.
This atrocity is an example of where irrational hatred as inspired by extreme neoconservativism can lead. I read his manifest and recognized what he wrote. Many people here on this forum share this nutjob's ideologies and have written similar tirades of vile racist filth and trash as the person who gunned down all those people recently.
I have no ill will towards anyone. But if you listen to the same neoconservative extremists, visit the same neoconservative extremist websites and find yourself sharing many of the same extreme opinions and ideologies as this person, you should seek help before you hurt someone.
I recommend visit your local Mosque and trying to learn more about Islam. Once you see Muslims as people rather than things, you will probably ditch extreme neoconservative irrational hatred and fear of them.
A not very logical assumption. How often have you heard someone declare they are going to kill so&so? If you reported everyone that made a declaration like this you would probably be in jail or the nut house for wasting police time. Even if some more or less rational people knew that he was planing some sort of criminal activity they may have very well written it of as the ravings of a loon not suspecting he might actually carry them out.
Lots of people play with explosives, I have a license for it. I also play with rifles. Doesn't make me insane although many blasters I know could probably legally fit that definition if they were given a phycological test. But even that does not make them dangerous.
I tend to agree with colpy in that democracy, immigration and multiculturalism do not work well together. Case in point the demands for Sharia law in Ontario. We can only have one set of rules for everyone, no special deals because of your skin color or your religion. To go with this one and not because I am picking on any particular religion as a safety rep and first aid attendant I strongly disagree with worksafe permitting wearing turbans in the workplace. If the job requires hard hats then EVERYONE working there must wear a hard hat. No exceptions.
The Canadian legal system does allow referring the resolution of minor crimes to First Nation healing circles provided all stakeholders agree.
Regarding what is and isn't sane. If you are wear a uniform that you created yourself with an insignia which reads "Marxist Hunter - Norway - Multiculti traitor hunting permit", and are planning to kill a lot people randomly, you are dangerously insane.
Few crazy people know they are crazy, while all their friends and family do. I'd get a second opinion besides your own from someone you are certain is rational and sane. Share your thoughts with them and let them decide how sane you are.
If you plan or are obsessed with committing a violent act even against yourself, get help. Every community has support systems. All religious institutions are a good start. Even if you aren't a member, most community religious leaders will help you and respect your privacy.
If you are aware of someone planning to commit a violent act, you should report them immediately. Dial 911
This person was planning this atrocity for a long time. He must have bragged about his abilities to kill people while expressing his hatred of an identifiable group and violent desires. Many people had to know this person was dangerous.
Regarding what is and isn't sane. If you are wear a uniform that you created yourself with an insignia which reads "Marxist Hunter - Norway - Multiculti traitor hunting permit", and are planning to kill a lot people randomly, you are dangerously insane.
Few crazy people know they are crazy, while all their friends and family do. I'd get a second opinion besides your own from someone you are certain is rational and sane. Share your thoughts with them and let them decide how sane you are.
If you plan or are obsessed with committing a violent act even against yourself, get help. Every community has support systems. All religious institutions are a good start. Even if you aren't a member, most community religious leaders will help you and respect your privacy.
If you are aware of someone planning to commit a violent act, you should report them immediately. Dial 911
This person was planning this atrocity for a long time. He must have bragged about his abilities to kill people while expressing his hatred of an identifiable group and violent desires. Many people had to know this person was dangerous.
Question: Are you for the implementation of sharia law in Canada???? A simple yes or no will suffice....we all know your propensity to deflection...;-)
Moses, Jesus and Mohammed are other than their followers
We have to differentiate between Moses teachings (the obedience to the Ten Commandments) and between some people (Jews) who consider him a drug addict!
On the other hand we must differentiate between Jesus teachings (taking the essence of the Ten Commandments) and between some people related to the Christ by name (Christians) who commit adultery in the name of love (they commit adultery as do they drink water) and they infact contradict all the Commandments of God.
The same is in regard to Muslims: many of them contradict the word of God as it is revealed in the Quran: e.g. many men ascribed to the Islam when they in fact murder people and kill innocent men and women not according to the Quran but according to their fanatic traditions.
What I have to do with multitudes of Muslims when they take patrons together with God and this in contradiction to the first word in the Islam:
We have to differentiate between Moses teachings (the obedience to the Ten Commandments) and between some people (Jews) who consider him a drug addict!
On the other hand we must differentiate between Jesus teachings (taking the essence of the Ten Commandments) and between some people related to the Christ by name (Christians) who commit adultery in the name of love (they commit adultery as do they drink water) and they infact contradict all the Commandments of God.
The same is in regard to Muslims: many of them contradict the word of God as it is revealed in the Quran: e.g. many men ascribed to the Islam when they in fact murder people and kill innocent men and women not according to the Quran but according to their fanatic traditions.
What I have to do with multitudes of Muslims when they take patrons together with God and this in contradiction to the first word in the Islam:
I admit no god but God alone, and Mohammed is the apostle of God
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