The Flotilla....IDF Actions Validated!

[petros]

Do those stats include displaced Christians or just citizens?

 

[taxslave]

Something else that sticks in my craw.......

The Sea Hitler.....aka the Tahir, the Canadian ship that was part of the floptilla bound for Gaza........

Do you know how much the voyage cost???

$300,000

Do you know how much the relief supplies on board were worth????

$27,000

Now, imagine how much good $300,000 would have done if given to a relief agency and used somewhere it was REALLY needed,like Somalia or the Sudan.........or even in Gaza......

Instead of burned on the altar of useful idiots' Jew hatred and self-importance.

Morons.

Doing good rarely makes the proper political statement.

 

[Goober]

Do those stats include displaced Christians or just citizens?

One has Jews in the occupied territories as Israeli stats - no idea about the rest - Just surfed and found these 2 - hard to tell what is a credible site and what is not in the new world of Internet website BS and slant

 

[petros]

One has Jews in the occupied territories as Israeli stats - no idea about the rest - Just surfed and found these 2 - hard to tell what is a credible site and what is not in the new world of Internet website BS and slant

What is an Isreali and what is a Jew? What is a Palestinian? Where does Israeli culture have it's roots?

 

[Goober]

What is an Isreali and what is a Jew?

Well one is a nation the other is a religion.

 

[earth_as_one]

The news could easily read like this:

Prime Minister Stephen Harper says his government will not abandon "important Canadian values" by toning down criticisms of Israeli colony expansion in Jerusalem and the Occupied West Bank, already strained as a result of a Canadian Board of Inquiry conclusion that the IDF (Israeli Army) is responsible for the death of Major Paeta Hess-von Kruedener at a UNIFIL observation post in Southern Lebanon.

Harper made the comments to reporters on Wednesday after abruptly canceling his scheduled meeting with Israeli President Shimon Peres. Harper, who was on his plane en route to the UN Economic Co-operation conference in Nairobi, declined to meet with Peres after initial talks between the two countries regarding allegations that Israeli secret service members continue to use Canadian passports for covert operations.

except Harper didn't do these things and there is no UN Economic Co-operation conference in Nairobi.

 

[petros]

Well one is a nation the other is a religion.

What types (religions or non) of people live in Israel?

 

[earth_as_one]

What types (religions or non) of people live in Israel?

What types (religions or non) of people live in Israel's Jewish only colonies in Jerusalem and the West Bank?

 

[Walter]

[SIZE="4"When is the next homosexual parade in Gaza?[/SIZE]

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Yes I did. You just didn't like the answer. Israel's ban on humanitarian aid and Gaza exports does not affect the ability of Palestinian militants to smuggle arms through the tunnels from Egypt to Gaza. Israel's actions are collective punishment of 1.4 million civilians and therefore a crime against humanity.

Please. Look I know that you get pretty rabid when any mention of the Middle East comes up, but I will ask this single question one last time and you can either answer it or gnash your teeth and tear at your clothes some more.

Do you think lifting the blockade will not increase the amount of arms and bomb making materials coming into the region?

It's a simple yes or no.

 

[earth_as_one]

A govt the Israeli's do not like - Really - What would your opinion be if some group promised to kill your whole extended family.

Doesn't my previously expressed opinion regarding this incident give you a clue?

Monday 19 January 2009

Amid dust and death, a family's story speaks for the terror of war
48 members of the Samouni family were killed in one day when Israel's battle with Hamas suddenly centred on their homes

Helmi Samouni knelt yesterday on the floor of the bedroom he once shared with his wife and their five-month old son, scraping his fingers through a thick layer of ash and broken glass looking for mementoes of their life together. "I found a ring. I might find more," he said.

His wife Maha and their child Muhammad were killed in the second week of Israel's 22-day war in Gaza when they were shelled by Israeli forces as they took shelter nearby along with dozens of relatives. In total 48 people from one family are now known to have died that Monday morning, 5 January, in Zeitoun, on the southern outskirts of Gaza City...

Amid dust and death, the Samouni family's story speaks for the terror of war | World news | guardian.co.uk

Then the four days the IDF blocked ambulances from evacuating the wounded:

08-01-2009 News Release 09/04

Geneva/Jerusalem/Tel Aviv (ICRC) - On the afternoon of 7 January, four Palestine Red Crescent Society (PRCS) ambulances and the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) managed to obtain access for the first time to several houses in the Zaytun neighbourhood of Gaza City that had been affected by Israeli shelling.

The ICRC had requested safe passage for ambulances to access this neighbourhood since 3 January but it only received permission to do so from the Israel Defense Forces during the afternoon of 7 January.

The ICRC/PRCS team found four small children next to their dead mothers in one of the houses. They were too weak to stand up on their own. One man was also found alive, too weak to stand up. In all there were at least 12 corpses lying on mattresses....

Yes I condemn all senseless violent war crimes including ones committed by Israel. For example, I condemn these incidents:

Nov. 2005

Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinian schoolgirl

· Officer ignored warnings that teenager was terrified
· Defence says 'confirming the kill' standard practice

Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinian schoolgirl | World news | The Guardian

The dead of Qana: 'They found them huddled together'

It was an unremarkable three-storey building on the edge of Qana. But for two extended families, the Shalhoubs and the Hashems, it was a last refuge. They could not afford the huge taxi fares to Tyre and hoped that if they all crouched together on the ground floor they would be safe.

They were wrong. At about 1am last Sunday, an Israeli bomb smashed into the house. Witnesses describe two explosions a few minutes apart, with survivors desperately moving from one side of the building to the other before being hit by the second blast. More than 54 bodies were pulled from the rubble, 34 of them children. There were eight known survivors.

As yet another body was removed from the wreckage, Naim Raqa, the head of the civil defence team searching the ruins, hung his head in grief: "When they found them, they were all huddled together at the back of the room . . . Poor things, they thought the walls would protect them."

The dead of Qana: 'They found them huddled together' | From the Guardian | Guardian Weekly

How about the previous Qana massacre in 1996?

By ROBERT FISK

05/06/96 "The Independent" -- Qana: It is a soldier's videotape, recorded -- at the start at least -- as just another incident to remember back home by a United Nations trooper after his six months' tour of duty in southern Lebanon are over.

Indeed, when the camera first records the Israeli shells tearing into the UN base at Qana, the other soldiers who appear in the film, most of them Norwegians in the UN's Force Mobile Reserve opposite Qana, seem unaware of its implications. One of them makes a joke, another looks gawkily into the camera even as it tapes the clouds of smoke obscuring Qana. The camera pans through barbed wire as more brown puffs of smoke emerge from the white-painted buildings of the UN's Fijian battalion headquarters.

The UN officers can be seen at an observation post staring at Qana as the Israeli shells rain onto their colleagues and the helpless refugees across the valley. A group of Norwegian soldiers talk excitedly and the camera, its owner obviously growing aware of the gravity of the situation, moves in close-up towards Qana with a zoom lens until the videotape is filled with drifting smoke. Shortly afterwards, the sound-track picks up the familiar buzzing sound of the Israeli "drone", final and irrefutable evidence that later Israeli denials were false -- until the Israelis changed their story last night....

Quana

Most Israeli atrocities fly below the Canada's media radar unlike Palestinian ones. That's why most Canadians haven't a clue about where close relations with Israel might lead.

I already said Israeli bans on Gaza EXPORTS indicate their actions are collective punishment. So is their taxes and levies on all goods and services entering and leaving Gaza. These actions don't affect the ability of Israel's adversaries to smuggle arms into Gaza. These actions are undeniably punitive collective punish. Its not a stretch to conclude the Israeli obstruction of humanitarian food and medical aid is also about collective punishment. Regarding the others bans and embargos, some may or may not be justified. Likely only Israel's arms blockade has full merit. The rest are crimes against humanity and various types of war crimes.

BTW, please be reminded to refrain from personal attacks.

 

[petros]

When is the next homosexual parade in Gaza?

Same day as in MOSCOW!

What makes a people a people? Religion? Race? Or a culture? A language?

Both share a Semite Culture like we all share a Canadian culture with diffferent languages and races and cultural origins.

It took us how many years to make it work half assed?

 

[gerryh]

well eao, I see you can't/won't give either RCS or myself a straight answer concerning both our questions. You post all kinds of crap, but in the end, the crap doesn't answer what we have asked. Why is that eao? Can you not answer? Or is it you won't answer because it will show you for the fool that you are?

One last chance.....RCS wants a simple yes or no, and I want a who,what,when, and how.

 

[petros]

What makes a people a people? Religion? Race? Or a culture? A language?

Both share a Semite Culture like we all share a Canadian culture with diffferent languages and races and cultural origins, religions.

It took us how many years to make it work half assed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_China

According to historical records, a Jewish community lived in Kaifeng from at least the Northern Song Dynasty (960–1127) until the late nineteenth century and Kaifeng was Northern Song's capital. It is surmised that the ancestors of the Kaifeng Jews came from Central Asia. It is also reported that in 1163 Ustad Leiwei was given charge of the religion (Ustad means teacher in Persian), and that they built a synagogue surrounded by a study hall, a ritual bath, a communal kitchen, a kosher butchering facility, and a sukkah.[1]
During the Ming Dynasty (1368–1644), a Ming emperor conferred seven surnames upon the Jews, by which they are identifiable today: Ai, Shi, Gao, Jin, Li, Zhang, and Zhao. By the beginning of the 20th c. one of these Kaifeng clans, the Zhang, had largely converted to Islam.[2] Interestingly, two of these: Jin and Shi are the equivalent of common Jewish names in the west: Gold and Stone.[3][4]

The existence of Jews in China was unknown to Europeans until 1605, when Matteo Ricci, then established in Beijing, was visited by a Jew from Kaifeng, who had come to Beijing to take examinations for his jinshi degree. According to his account in De Christiana expeditione apud Sinas,[5] his visitor, named Ai Tian (Ai T'ien) (艾田) explained that he worshipped one God. It is recorded that when he saw a Christian image of Mary with the child Jesus, he believed it to be a picture of Rebecca with Esau or Jacob, figures from Scripture. Ai said that many other Jews resided in Kaifeng; they had a splendid synagogue (禮拜寺 libai si) and possessed a great number of written materials and books.

About three years after Ai's visit, Ricci sent a Chinese Jesuit Lay Brother to visit Kaifeng; he copied the beginnings and ends of the holy books kept in the synagogue, which allowed Ricci to verify that they indeed were the same texts as the Pentateuch known to Europeans, except that they did not use Hebrew diacritics (which were a comparatively late invention).[6]

When Ricci wrote to the "ruler of the synagogue" in Kaifeng, telling him that the Messiah the Jews were waiting for had come already, the "Archsynagogus" wrote back, saying that the Messiah would not come for another ten thousand years. Nonetheless, apparently concerned with the lack of a trained successor, the old rabbi offered Ricci his position, if the Jesuit would join their faith and abstain from eating pork.

Later, another three Jews from Kaifeng, including Ai's nephew, stopped by the Jesuits' house while visiting Beijing on business, and got themselves baptized. They told Ricci that the old rabbi had died, and (since Ricci had not taken up on his earlier offer), his position was inherited by his son, "quite unlearned in matters pertaining to his faith". Ricci's overall impression of the situation of China's Jewish community was that "they were well on the way to becoming Saracens [i.e., Muslims] or heathens."[6]

 

[Omicron]

Supper triple DUH!

My head swims at the dumbness of the management of this situation.

Everybody likes reality-TV.

How would you like it if you got it in real time?

http://tunes.digitalock.com/The_Corries_Kismuils_Galley_v2.mp3 <-- click here to hear what I'm listening to while typing.

Israel is exercising national right which is like your ability to hit if if you're being attacked as a kid.

That's pretty much it.

Heavenly Father and Holy Ghost mother have much more to say about that unto the bleeding heart philosophers, but that's basically it. Just be happy enough that as a species you got God's attention out of a trillion galaxies of nothingness.

http://tunes.digitalock.com/raggletagglegypsio_dancemix.mp3 <-- click here to hear what I am listening to now

So...

CBC (perhaps along with Australia and New Zealand) organizes a thing where they have live video guys there to document everything in real time via each of their respective national satellite channels.

PLUS the deal be made that the exchange of goods be done on a place like Crete, such that before the world's eyes it be seen that the ships are bringing the Gazis humanitarian stuff (which is like being under the worlds glare for nations to be demanding the right to see what food a super-super power is sneaking into the east-wing of Chicago).

There on international satellite TV it gets to be seen the soldiers and Israeli customs agents searching the cargo looking for contraband.

And if it passes let it through...

Even though kids in Gaza grew up so poor they'd probably feel happier working for Somali pirates.

This is never going to stop. It is a dispute going back thousands of years, where both side are right.

Do you get it? Both sides are right.

I was thinking... what if in order to keep the quality of Canadian citizens high, we let in all the smart and good Palestinians, leaving behind the trash worthy of Israeli destruction behind, such that after they've finished cleaning up they've finally got their Israel.

We could make it so the good Palestinians are safe and working and adding to the economy, etc etc bla bla bla...

Here's the funny part. PM King blurted out an idea one day that as PM of Canada he could offer northern Saskatchewan to the Jews for that to be their homeland. Story says he said that after some Brit said Uganda could be offered to Jews as well.

Imagine making it a rule that Canada will accept the cream of the crop Palestinians, but they have to settle in northern Saskatchewan, the central mother-load of rare-earth elements equal only to south Africa and a place in Russia.

Anybody got a problem thinking the best Palestinians in spite of the climate could get rich there?

I know it's weird, but we have Hutterites, Mormons, Dutch Reformers, etc. etc. bla bla bla.

A possible advantage of having the *best* Palestinians up there is that color-wise they match the native locals, who happen to be the most violent Crees in the country.

Figure it out. A+ Palestinians dealing with northern Cree, as if the settlers would have never experienced any same-colour craziness like that before.

It makes total sense. We've been trying to settle north-Saskatchewan Cree forever. We give the global-class Palestinians to trade with. They'll knock each other out, or the Palestinians will overwhelm them with the joy of trade, or the best Palestinians will come crawling to Ottawa saying, "You're northern Cree are too strong for us, we want to go home".

At which point Israel is going to say, "Sorry, we mopped it up, it's all ours".

At which point because no tard of IQ ever studied climate change forcaste maps it gets explained to them that there be a place up north nearly like the desert they left behind, expect it has lots of bugs.

We give them the technology to scoop trillions of tonnes of insect protient out of the air.

They become as happy living in a northern uncomfortable situation as they were living in a stupid one on the left wing of the green arch.

 

[mentalfloss]

Not at all.

I am FAR from believing Israel is perfect......it is simply the best nation (the freest and the most liberal) in the ME.

I'm happy that you've remained logically consistent then.

I will agree that they are technically the most developed and "free" of all middle east nations. That should go without saying. Since they are more developed and free and powerful, it should also go without saying that they are indebted the task of also being the more responsible party.

 

[Omicron]

Anyway, getting back to the flotilla.

My sister knows a guys in Crete with a sea-side hotel and a dock for everyone to show up and show in trade what they got. She could make a fortune from the television cruise.

We could make real-time global-TV observation of if those flotillas were truly bringing humanitarian aid, or weapons as Israel declares it necessary to presume.

Think about it. Global observation of people passing trade material into the hands of Israeli authorities in real time to be inspected and passed, many having sneaked their brand label onto each piece in order to get recognition for trade, and the bottom line being the diff is...

... what do you want to bet...

... The only difference between Israel and the nations around it is that it's border-cops are not so underpaid to be corrupt.

 

[earth_as_one]

well eao, I see you can't/won't give either RCS or myself a straight answer concerning both our questions. You post all kinds of crap, but in the end, the crap doesn't answer what we have asked. Why is that eao? Can you not answer? Or is it you won't answer because it will show you for the fool that you are?

One last chance.....RCS wants a simple yes or no, and I want a who,what,when, and how.

I don't have to know who specifically blocked and shot at ambulances, or who bombed Gaza hospitals or the many incidents listed by every report made by independent humanitarian organization which have investigated this conflict to know that Israelis commit war crimes and crimes against humanity. Canada should condemn all war crimes and crimes against humanity even when Israelis commit them. When war criminals enter Canada they should be arrested, even when they are Israelis. Instead our leaders ignore Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity and express unshakable support for Israel. I have a problem with these policies.

While few aspects of Israel's embargo of Gaza can be justified as self defense, most aspects of it are crimes against humanity.

I answered your question repeatedly, now answer mine. How does Israel's blockade of Gaza exports like cut flowers and strawberries or and its withholding taxes collected on goods and services entering and leaving Gaza make Israel safer? I see these aspects of Israel's blockade as purely collective punishment.

Also, if people stink up this place with personal attacks I report it, just like I report Spam and other violations of forum rules.

 

[Omicron]

http://tunes.digitalock.com/raggletagglegypsio_dancemix.mp3 <-- click to hear

Just like the how the way to make peace between Iran and the world was to send them our best lamb while they send us their best carpets, the issue of Palestine was the problem of them to say all had to live was the land they had then Jews came in and made it Israel.

http://tunes.digitalock.com/bluewaterline.mp3 <-- click to have Ron not kick me off

Seriously... only Canada, Brazil and/or Australia can solve the "Mideast peace process".

Be upon the side of God. http://tunes.digitalock.com/TheWhoWontGetFooledAgain.mp3

Your heart has totally lost tract of why and/or how they came here.

I'm going to tell you the story of my great-grandfather, and while I type you are going to stick your finger up the tightest part of yourself until you have heard the whole story.

My great-grandfather was Norwegian proud to give me an 1890 silver dollar.

Yes he could have battled the Norwegian Sweden civil war except what happened. He got diagnosed with TB. That meant he had to lay around and die. He had a $2000 fortune saved for the time, so he layed around and got famous for being the laziest lout in the town, nobody knowing at the time that at that was the way to get over TB.

The the civil war happened between Norway and Sweden.

They were highlanders (what Swedes call Bavarian Swedes, meaning they are the mountain-high tough, pale-skin grey eye'd sort of norther)

Because they were highlanders, it meant Swedes were easy to come up and over the divide.

Because they were highland goat-herders they thought they were safe from the revolution, but one day some Swedes came up and over the divide and (I don't know how... probably had something to do with picking-chores for the kids) and kidnapped 12 kids.

The town panicked and settled down after if was said it to be okay for the woman who liked to dress like guys hold the rifle and snipe.

She got down and everyone else in the town hollered to the kids to keep their heads down.

Then she picked the off every time they put up their heads to look.

When it was done the guys moved in to finish it off, for they were back from their day of herding.

Anyway... that was just a kid-story for what it was like to be a kid as my great-grandfather.

 

[gerryh]

I don't have to know who specifically blocked and shot at ambulances, or who bombed Gaza hospitals or the many incidents listed by every report made by independent humanitarian organization which have investigated this conflict to know that Israelis commit war crimes and crimes against humanity. Canada should condemn all war crimes and crimes against humanity even when Israelis commit them. When war criminals enter Canada they should be arrested, even when they are Israelis. Instead our leaders ignore Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity and express unshakable support for Israel. I have a problem with these policies.

While few aspects of Israel's embargo of Gaza can be justified as self defense, most aspects of it are crimes against humanity.

I answered your question repeatedly, now answer mine. How does Israel's blockade of Gaza exports like cut flowers and strawberries or and its withholding taxes collected on goods and services entering and leaving Gaza make Israel safer? I see these aspects of Israel's blockade as purely collective punishment.

Also, if people stink up this place with personal attacks I report it, just like I report Spam and other violations of forum rules.

The blockade will hopefully, though it hasn't yet, make the citizens see the light and get rid of hamas. That is obvious. No, you haven't answered either RCS or I.