Saskatchewan teachers to walkout Thursday

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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it is completely different

I guess you gave me the negrep because you couldn't understand the question.
By your answer, it appears that you are a victim of that very same low grade education system that
fails to educate in even simple ways.

The education system in Canada is poor and failing fast now that government has linked funding with
voting demographics.
 

cranky

Time Out
Apr 17, 2011
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I guess you gave me the negrep because you couldn't understand the question.
By your answer, it appears that you are a victim of that very same low grade education system that
fails to educate in even simple ways.

The education system in Canada is poor and failing fast now that government has linked funding with
voting demographics.

when you make broad sweeping claims like that, it would help if you at least try to support it with a few points.
 

cranky

Time Out
Apr 17, 2011
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If you don't want to talk about the topic feel free to remain quiet.
As you have nothing relevant to say about the issue, I have no use for you.

I do want to talk about your broad sweeping claims and how they pertain to the quality of education that we get in Canada. But a two way discussion will have to involve you offering some sort of evidance or rationale instead of just throwing out insults at me.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Actually you are not very far off the mark regarding your comment on the schools as daycare centres. One of my colleagues was fond of stating that teachers should "Never underestimate the importance of their custodial role."

I can fully get behind the movement to remove (much of) the custodial requirements from the teacher's duties. Over the years, that has morphed into an entitlement expected by the parents of the students. Further, it also serves to diminish the true importance of the actual schooling.

A case in point was a strike by a large number of Alberta teachers in the 1990s. I won't go into the details of the dispute as that is not what I am addressing here. Suffice to say that the teachers were ordered back to work by the government with the dispute unresolved. The teachers retaliated by withdrawing all voluntary services. In other words they showed up for work at 8:15 am and departed at 03:45 pm. They refused to participate in any extracurricular activities, including coaching, drama, and many other after-school activities. The response from the public was so strong that teachers were left wondering why they had bothered to go on strike in the first place. Refusing to coach basketball turned out to be far more effective. The government caved in within three weeks.

The risk of being served with back-to-work orders is high when the union had a lock on the delivery of educational services in the province. It came as no surprise to me that the gvt considered the ATA as an "essential service" based on the notion that the threat of strike (or actual strike) would close the entire system.

As it stands, what the ATA did in withdrawing the voluntary services was a action that I fully supported. In my view, those teachers that provide those additional services should be compensated above their regular pay for this and in my view, that compensation should come directly from the families that desire the program - it should not be any part of the education budget at all... On that note, while I feel that the teachers which provide these extra circular services be recognized for it, I also believe that the current "system" seeks to compensate all members of the ATA for the services provided by the few... Clearly, this is also not equitable or fair for the rate payer.

My interpretation of the public's response to the withholding of those services was nothing more than an expression of entitlement that society should pay the freight on everything.

However, you are overstating the importance of so called Charter Schools and private schools. First of all any school can nominate itself as a Charter School. It simply has to state a goal and then work toward that goal. An example would be a school that declares itself a Charter School and adopts "academic excellence" as its goal. Since that is something all schools do anyway it really does not have to change a thing about the way it operates. In the United States the attempt to replace public schools with schools run under private contract have been disastrous with the quality of education plummeting for the students involved.

One of the biggest benefits generated by the Charters and Privates is that it forces the parents to assess a "value" on their kids education. To a degree, this "value" will be transferred onto the student in some form.

There is no question in my mind that one of the critical explanations why the GPA for Charters/Private Schools is higher (or may be higher) is because there might be greater motivation on the part of the student... Yes, lower class sizes and access to more/better technology are factors as well, but if there is sincere drive in the individual student, the chances for better results is much more probable.

Private schools in Alberta have very little impact on the system as there so few of them. In fact private schools are a drain on the system to some extent in that they receive full pupil funding from the government and can still demand fees from the children sent to them.

I will debate you on the comment that the Private schools are a drain on the system. The per student funding does not exceed what the provincial formula stipulates and as these families have kicked into the education tax just like everyone else, they are fully entitled to receive that funding. As far as the extra money is concerned, that is a decision made by the parents and has no impact on the public/separate systems in any way, shape or form.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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I was under the impression this thread is about teachers.

It's a thread about many things...teachers, unions, work ethic, these topics and more. That's what happens, conversations generally evolve...

So..................... I worked for a seismograph outfit out of Calgary where we worked 10 hours days with no breaks.............lunch and coffee were on the fly, but that suited me fine, got paid while eating lunch and drinking coffee.

Good for you. Next time some poster assumes that you need a lesson in work ethic I'll direct them to this post.

Young kids nowadays find a lot to whine about. :smile:

Yup, as do middle aged and the elderly. I think most generations say the same thing about the older generation, and repeat the things the older generation said about their generation when they are the older generation.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Low Earth Orbit
A wise Conservative once said: "Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?"

Well is they? I'd likes know cuz a man is supposed to always be thinkin’ about stuff about his family and for to make himself to do things that are gonna gooder the family up-around, gooder it up. And that is what is a man.

Never misunderestimate what kids can achieve whether it's rocket appliance or being President of America.They can learnt on their own and get their deservament and pass the minumums of life with flying carpets.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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There is no question in my mind that one of the critical explanations why the GPA for Charters/Private Schools is higher (or may be higher) is because there might be greater motivation on the part of the student... Yes, lower class sizes and access to more/better technology are factors as well, but if there is sincere drive in the individual student, the chances for better results is much more probable.



I will debate you on the comment that the Private schools are a drain on the system. The per student funding does not exceed what the provincial formula stipulates and as these families have kicked into the education tax just like everyone else, they are fully entitled to receive that funding. As far as the extra money is concerned, that is a decision made by the parents and has no impact on the public/separate systems in any way, shape or form.

Actually there is a simpler reason for the success of private schools, and it has very little to do with the quality of their teachers. What is does have to do with is that private schools can insist on higher standards of behaviour than public schools. Students who do not meet their strict behavioural standards are simply excluded from the school. Even mediocre teachers can do a reasonable job if there are no discipline problems to contend with. Public schools do not have this option. They have to accept all students, even those who have a history of being extremely disruptive.

By way of comparison I taught in a private school for a short time. After my experience in the public system I was impressed by the fact that in a school with over 1000 junior and and high school students only a single administrator dealt with discipline problems and that such problems were actually few and far between. Later in my career I taught in a public school with an almost identical student mix. Three administrators were required to deal with wayward students and there was generally a line up outside their offices.


So far as private schools being a drain, what I meant was that since parents who send their children to private schools get a tax deduction they incidentally pass on part of their share of the tax burden to those who do not have children in public schools. The matter is not really debatable, that is simply the way the tax system works.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Red Deer AB
Sask should hold the classes out in combines anyway, safety around heavy equipment before algebra, starting at about 3 yrs if you wake up at work.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Actually there is a simpler reason for the success of private schools, and it has very little to do with the quality of their teachers. What is does have to do with is that private schools can insist on higher standards of behaviour than public schools. Students who do not meet their strict behavioural standards are simply excluded from the school. Even mediocre teachers can do a reasonable job if there are no discipline problems to contend with. Public schools do not have this option. They have to accept all students, even those who have a history of being extremely disruptive.

That is a very interesting observation; that possibility had never really entered my mind, certainly not to the extent that you suggest... That said, I can certainly see the impact.


So far as private schools being a drain, what I meant was that since parents who send their children to private schools get a tax deduction they incidentally pass on part of their share of the tax burden to those who do not have children in public schools. The matter is not really debatable, that is simply the way the tax system works.

Unless the tax rules have changed in the last number of years, I believe that you are mistaken in suggesting that the cost of tuition/fees at a private school can be written-off.
 

Angstrom

Hall of Fame Member
May 8, 2011
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The problem is, our government is running everything like its 1900.
The fact of the matter is where in 2011, and our schools are supposed to
be training the people that run government, industry, commerce, in 2045.

Our great grand parents use to go to school cause the knowledge was in the heads of teachers. With books and Internet, the knowledge is in our homes today. Why are we still sending our children to school the same way then 111 years ago?

All kids need is a good web site, good parents that motivates them,
and a place to get together with other kids to challenge ,share and teach each other
With some adult direction.

If kids know it matters they will work there ass off.

If you took all that money we spend on education and spent it on publishing
real projects, and studies, R&D, real hands on stuff the Industry is actually
doing everyday. Hell ya students would get hard core into it. They would do stuff
that would blow the roof off our houses.

Imagine publishing this work so that any one, any company in the world can look
at our students work. With the world watching our kids would really be motivated.
Cause they would see its real, and there work could matter.

they would pore everything they have into it.

Imagine a education service that channel the young energy into getting back the lost industry that have left Canada, even getting new industry to Canada.

A education that say's heres your chance to show the world why Canada is the best place to do business. Go get them!
Imagine how motivated they would be if we told them, look this is your future, here is your education money, now produce world class work and showcase yourself.

And all that work could become public domain so all students could learn from and improve on, creating a snowball effect.

That would be very Canadian like.

The knowledge is in our houses. All we need is to understand our kids and motivate them to do something with that knowledge.

Our problem is Motivation
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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I'm sorry, but I find it very difficult to take advice on how to educate our kids seriously, when it comes from someone that can't spell, create proper sentence structure, use proper grammar, or create a proper paragraph.
 

Angstrom

Hall of Fame Member
May 8, 2011
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I'm sorry, but I find it very difficult to take advice on how to educate our kids seriously, when it comes from someone that can't spell, create proper sentence structure, use proper grammar, or create a proper paragraph.


LOL

Well if our schools where any good I could have been very diffrent =)
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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I'm sorry, but I find it very difficult to take advice on how to educate our kids seriously, when it comes from someone that can't spell, create proper sentence structure, use proper grammar, or create a proper paragraph.


Good point, Gerry and a well structured sentence and all without a single "f**k" :lol: