Obama urges future Palestinian state be based on '67 borders

[petros]

Yeah but if they get too uppitty, doing things like suggesting someone vote for them, they're liable to end up with a mysteriously originated bullet in their head, or have an accident of some sort.

That's just plain silly.

Christians could always live in Israel and have big lungers horked at them by Hasidics daily?

 

[darkbeaver]

That's just plain silly.

Christians could always live in Israel and have big lungers horked at them by Hasidics daily?

They also throw their own s h i t at people, like monkeys.

 

[Just the Facts]

That's just plain silly.

Christians could always live in Israel and have big lungers horked at them by Hasidics daily?

They cancelled elections altogether without a worry, why would it be silly to suggest they would intimidate the opposition in an election. Didn't they throw a bunch of Fatah officials off of rooftops a while back? Didn't they commandeer the Presidents office? Hamas did the equivalent of Congress taking over the white house and booting out the president. But intimidate electoral opponents, no, they would never stoop to such a thing lol.

Unfortunately, it's not silly at all. Referencing Christians being spat at in Israel as somehow relevant, now that's silly.

 

[petros]

They cancelled elections altogether without a worry, why would it be silly to suggest they would intimidate the opposition in an election. Didn't they throw a bunch of Fatah officials off of rooftops a while back? Didn't they commandeer the Presidents office? Hamas did the equivalent of Congress taking over the white house and booting out the president. But intimidate electoral opponents, no, they would never stoop to such a thing lol.

Unfortunately, it's not silly at all. Referencing Christians being spat at in Israel as somehow relevant, now that's silly.

Because that's not going to happen this time. You've been paying attention to the youth democracy movements spurred on by the west haven't you? Did you pay attention to the busload after busload of Christians from Lebanon and Jordan who stood along the over extended Israeli borders side by side with the Muzzies in support of Palestine last week?

Hamas doesn't have a hope in hell, where they belong. If hell doesn't want them ship them to Tel Aviv since they created them there.

 

[MHz]

Nope, it's called propaganda and it works miracles.

Since it is applied to sheeple of all stripes the outcome is predictable, unfortunately.

Part of any 'recognition' would include a brand new deep water port for Gaza City and a heavy lift airport.

They would be wise to adopt ‘Kitchenware Revolution’ policies early on, as would many other nations who are in over their head.

http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2011/05/21/spain-adopts-icelands-kitchenware-revolution-idea/

 

[CDNBear]

Did you pay attention to the busload after busload of Christians from Lebanon and Jordan who stood along the over extended Israeli borders side by side with the Muzzies in support of Palestine last week?

I missed that, gotta link to a news story or something?

 

[ironsides]

CHICAGO (Reuters) – Some prominent Jewish Americans are rethinking their support for President Barack Obama's 2012 re-election bid after he effectively called on Israel to give back territory it has occupied since 1967 to Palestinians.
The backlash after Obama's keynote speech on the Middle East has Democratic Party operatives scrambling to mollify the Jewish community as the president prepares to seek a second term in the White House.
Obama on Thursday called for any new Palestinian state to respect the borders as they were in 1967, prompting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to tell him bluntly that his vision of how to achieve Middle East peace was unrealistic.
"He has in effect sought to reduce Israel's negotiation power and I condemn him for that," former New York Mayor Ed Koch told Reuters.
Koch said he might not campaign or vote for Obama if Republicans nominate a pro-Israel candidate who offers an alternative to recent austere budgetary measures backed by Republicans in Congress.
Koch donated $2,300 to Obama's campaign in 2008, according to filings with the Federal Election Commission.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110521/ts_nm/us_usa_campaign_mideast;_ylt=AgQNkDs3QaFQGCqpG4ohZ0Xa0sd_;_ylu=X3oDMTM4dHJ1M2VnBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTEwNTIxL3VzX3VzYV9jYW1wYWlnbl9taWRlYXN0BGNjb2RlA3RvcGdtcGUEY3BvcwMzBHBvcwMzBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcmllcwRzbGsDdG9wamV3aXNoYW1l

 

[CUBert]

What's Ron Paul's position on Izrael?

 

[CDNBear]

What's Ron Paul's position on Izrael?

What's yours?

 

[Machjo]

What's Ron Paul's position on Izrael?

The same as Ron Paul's position on foreign policy in general: let's trade with them.

I don't think he has much of a foreign policy beyond that. Heck, he wants to pull out of the UN, NATO, NORAD, SEATO, and the OAS. He wants free trade, he's idologically pro-immigration though pragmatically has modified his position over the years to bow to public pressure to clamp down on the border at least somewhat immigration-wise (though my guess is he'd still push for open borders as far as is politiclaly feasible).
So as for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, though he may have his own opinons on what ought to be done their, he certianly has no vision of any official US government involvement in the conflict. About as neutral as Switzerland I guess.

Where I would see Ron Paul running into problems would be in defining US political boundaries in disputed areas such as possibly parts of Alaska. Seeing he's not particularly militaristic though, my guess is he'd accept any reasonable agreement with any other claimants.

Though I don't agree with his positions entirely, his position is still not bad.

 

[petros]

I missed that, gotta link to a news story or something?

JERUSALEM, May 15 (Reuters) - Israeli troops shot Palestinian protesters who surged towards its frontiers with Syria, Lebanon and Gaza on Sunday, killing at least 13 people on the day Palestinians mourn the establishment of Israel in 1948.

In the deadliest such confrontation in years of anniversary clashes usually confined to the West Bank and Gaza, Israeli forces opened fire in three separate border locations to prevent crowds of demonstrators from crossing frontier lines.​

The new challenge to Israel came from the borders of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Gaza — all home to hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who fled or were driven out in 1948.​

Combined with a public relations disaster last year over the killing of pro-Palestinian activists in a Gaza aid flotilla and a determined Palestinian diplomatic drive to win U.N. recognition of statehood in September this year, the bloody border protests raised the stakes further for Israel.​

 

[earth_as_one]

....Those Christians you refer to I am pretty sure they would prefer to live under an Israeli government than Muslim. Most Christians have no problems living in Israel, they need each other if they want to survive in the Mid-East..

The Zionists who control Israel are hostile towards all non-Jews who live or used to live in what is now Israel and the Occupied Territories:

The Palestinian Christian:
betrayed, persecuted, sacrificed
The Palestinian Christian : betrayed, persecuted, sacrificed

Father Rantisi was born in Lyda, now the site of Ben Gurion Airport, in 1937. From 1955 to 1958 he attended the Bible College of Wales, moving in 1963 to continue his studies at Aurora College in the state of Illinois. He then served as a missionary in Sudan. In 1965 he opened the Evangelical Home for Boys in Ramallah, West Bank. In 1976 Father Rantisi was elected as Ramallah's deputy mayor and he is now the director of the orphanage of the Evangelical Home of Boys.

From "Blessed are the Peacemakers ...The History of a Palestinian Christian"

I cannot forget three horror-filled days in July of 1948. The pain sears my memory, and I cannot rid myself of it no matter how hard I try.
First, Israeli soldiers forced thousands of Palestinians from their homes near the Mediterranean coast, even though some families had lived in the same houses for centuries. (My family had been in the town of Lydda in Palestine at least 1,600 years). Then, without water, we stumbled into the hills and continued for three deadly days. The Jewish soldiers followed, occasionally shooting over our heads to scare us and keep us moving. Terror filled my eleven-year-old mind as I wondered what would happen. I remembered overhearing my father and his friends express alarm about recent massacres by Jewish terrorists. Would they kill us, too?

We did not know what to do, except to follow orders and stumble blindly up the rocky hills. I walked hand in hand with my grandfather, who carried our only remaining possessions-a small tin of sugar and some milk for my aunt's two-year-old son, sick with typhoid.

The horror began when Zionist soldiers deceived us into leaving our homes, then would not let us go back, driving us through a small gate just outside Lydda. I remember the scene well: thousands of frightened people being herded like cattle through the narrow opening by armed soldiers firing overhead. In front of me a cart wobbled toward the gate. Alongside, a lady struggled, carrying her baby, pressed by the crowd. Suddenly, in the jostling of the throngs, the child fell. The mother shrieked in agony as the cart's metal-rimmed wheel ran over her baby's neck. That infant's death was the most awful sight I had ever seen.

Outside the gate the soldiers stopped us and ordered everyone to throw all valuables onto a blanket. One young man and his wife of six weeks, friends of our family, stood near me. He refused to give up his money. Almost casually, the soldier pulled up his rifle and shot the man. He fell, bleeding and dying while his bride screamed and cried. I felt nauseated and sick, my whole body numbed by shock waves. That night I cried, too, as I tried to sleep alongside thousands on the ground. Would I ever see my home again? Would the soldiers kill my loved ones, too?

Early the next morning we heard more shots and sprang up. A bullet just missed me and killed a donkey nearby. Everybody started running as a stampede. I was terror-stricken when I lost sight of my family, and I frantically searched all day as the crowd moved along.

That second night, after the soldiers let us stop, I wandered among the masses of people, desperately searching and calling. Suddenly in the darkness I heard my father's voice. I shouted out to him. What joy was in me! I had thought I would never see him again. As he and my mother held me close, I knew I could face whatever was necessary. The next day brought more dreadful experiences. Still branded on my memory is a small child beside the road, sucking the breast of its dead mother. Along the way I saw many stagger and fall. Others lay dead or dying in the scorching midsummer heat. Scores of pregnant women miscarried, and their babies died along the wayside. The wife of my father's cousin became very thirsty. After a long while she said she could not continue. Soon she slumped down and was dead. Since we could not carry her we wrapped her in cloth, and after praying, just left her beside a tree. I don't know what happened to her body.

We eventually found a well, but had no way to get water. Some of the men tied a rope around my father's cousin and lowered him down, then pulled him out, and gave us water squeezed from his clothing. The few drops helped, but thirst still tormented me as I marched along in the shadeless, one-hundred plus degree heat.

We trudged nearly twenty miles up rocky hills, then down into deep valleys, then up again, gradually higher and higher. Finally we found a main road, where some Arabs met us. They took some of us in trucks to Ramallah, ten miles north of Jerusalem. I lived in a refugee tent camp for the next three and one-half years. We later learned that two Jewish families had taken over our family home in Lydda.

Those wretched days and nights in mid-July of 1948 continue as a lifelong nightmare because Zionists took away our home of many centuries. For me and a million other Palestinian Arabs, tragedy had marred our lives forever.
Throughout his life my father remembered and suffered. For thirty-one years before his death in 1979, he kept the large metal key to our house in Lydda.

After more than four decades I still bear the emotional scars of the Zionist invasion. Yet, as an adult, I see what I did not fully understand then: that the Jews are also human beings, themselves driven by fear, victims of history's worst outrages, rabidly, sometimes almost mindlessly searching for security. Lamentably, they have victimized my people.

Four years after our flight from Lydda I dedicated my life to the service of Jesus Christ. Like me and my fellow refugees, Jesus had lived in adverse circumstances, often with only a stone for a pillow. As with his fellow Jews two thousand years ago and the Palestinians today, an outside power controlled his homeland-my homeland. They tortured and killed him in Jerusalem, only ten miles from Ramallah, and my new home. He was the victim of terrible indignities. Nevertheless, Jesus prayed on behalf of those who engineered his death, "Father, forgive them..."
Can I do less?

Bibliography

http://www.religioustolerance.org/ata01.htm

 

[Just the Facts]

Because that's not going to happen this time. You've been paying attention to the youth democracy movements spurred on by the west haven't you? Did you pay attention to the busload after busload of Christians from Lebanon and Jordan who stood along the over extended Israeli borders side by side with the Muzzies in support of Palestine last week?

Hamas doesn't have a hope in hell, where they belong. If hell doesn't want them ship them to Tel Aviv since they created them there.

So Hamas is gonna give up and go to Tel Aviv because of a busload of Christians from Lebanon? Sorry dude I have no idea what you're trying to say.

 

[petros]

You've got it word for word.

Obama said the samething today. Israel and Palestine have to do a land swap to equal 1967 Km² and figure **** out over Jerusalem.


I wonder how long it takes for him to be called an anti-semite?

 

[ironsides]

The Zionists who control Israel are hostile towards all non-Jews who live or used to live in what is now Israel and the Occupied Territories:

The Palestinian Christian:
betrayed, persecuted, sacrificed
The Palestinian Christian : betrayed, persecuted, sacrificed

Father Rantisi was born in Lyda, now the site of Ben Gurion Airport, in 1937. From 1955 to 1958 he attended the Bible College of Wales, moving in 1963 to continue his studies at Aurora College in the state of Illinois. He then served as a missionary in Sudan. In 1965 he opened the Evangelical Home for Boys in Ramallah, West Bank. In 1976 Father Rantisi was elected as Ramallah's deputy mayor and he is now the director of the orphanage of the Evangelical Home of Boys.

From "Blessed are the Peacemakers ...The History of a Palestinian Christian"

Bibliography

http://www.nesammim.com/inner.php?section=history&lang=eng

You've got it word for word.

Obama said the samething today. Israel and Palestine have to do a land swap to equal 1967 Km² and figure **** out over Jerusalem.


I wonder how long it takes for him to be called an anti-semite?

Lebanon would be very happy if Hamas would leave their country. Lebanon is or was a Christian country. They and Israel share similar problems Palestinians. President Obama has already been called that and worse, the speech didn't change anything. He is not a anti-semite that I am aware of.

 

[petros]

http://www.nesammim.com/inner.php?section=history&lang=eng



Lebanon would be very happy if Hamas would leave their country. Lebanon is or was a Christian country. They and Israel share similar problems Palestinians. President Obama has already been called that and worse, the speech didn't change anything. He is not a anti-semite that I am aware of.

Lebanon is both Christan and Muslim and one helluva great place to travel to. Same goes for Jordan.

Lebanon is both Christan and Muslim and one helluva great place to travel to. Same goes for Jordan.

I don't blame anyone for forgetting Christianity in the Holy Land. All the years of propaganda has taken it's toll on the people we as Christians should be looking out for first and foremost. Our own.

 

[ironsides]

Lebanon is both Christan and Muslim and one helluva great place to travel to. Same goes for Jordan.




I don't blame anyone for forgetting Christianity in the Holy Land. All the years of propaganda has taken it's toll on the people we as Christians should be looking out for first and foremost. Our own.

I have been to both places also, Jordan I can agree with you on, but when I was in Lebanon (1983) it was in flames. What I meant about Lebanon was at that time it was run by Lebanese Christian's.

 

[petros]

I have been to both places also, Jordan I can agree with you on, but when I was in Lebanon (1983) it was in flames. What I meant about Lebanon was at that time it was run by Lebanese Christian's.

It's been 5 or 6 years for us. Egypt we did twice. The only real problems were that people were too friendly. I didn't see any boogey men either. Ah well, maybe next time?

 

[MHz]

I didn't hear anything too harsh in his AIPAC speech, quite the contrary really.

This is similar to the ploy the Brits used to get some help during the war, say whatever it takes to get what you wants and then reneg on any/all 'deals'. That how the West and everyplace else was won.

 

[gopher]

You cannot have a integrated and democratic government if those you are trying to integrate into your society refuse to believe in or obey your laws.

The South seceded from the Union because it refused to obey the laws. Today, they comply with the Constitution just like everybody else. Therefore this refutes your idea.

But this brings up a point - it is the Republican party that has always asserted that it it the one party that has always affirmed integration, unification, and democratization. Its history in the 1860s and 1870s do bear this out. Then under Bush it started a war in Iraq ostensibly to promote democratization and unification by unifying that divided country. Today it is Republicans who assert that they never practice any form of discrimination and that they are all for Christian values. For those of you who have read the Bible, you know fully well that integration is a part of that religion's professed ideals. So why aren't Christian professing Republicans calling for the same thing here? Where are the forum's Republicans and Canadian republican wannabes to demand a one state solution which fully integrates ALL people of Israel and Palestine? If Republicans were consistent in their principles this is what they would demand.