Catholics blame Woodstock for abuse!!
- Thread starter PoliticalNick
- Start date
There's a huge difference between a priest who abuses children and a butcher who does the same...a butcher is not expected to be virtuous and compassionate as part of their job description...
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Since you haven't refuted or proved anything wrong, you haven't called anything out.
So far, I did more then you have.
Why should you post snippets?
Because if you're actually wanting to debate something, that's what you're supposed to do. If the original article took the report out of context, then the fault lies on the article.
That's your claim..... if they did, then how about you show where or how they did?
If your memory wasn’t so selective, you would have remembered times when I have agreed with you in some of those comments towards Muslims.
I’m not painting every single person who is Roman Catholic or all the priests in the Roman Catholic Church with the same brush here. My comments and views are directed at the priests who were involved in these incidences, found guilty of their crimes and towards the Organization itself whom makes these type of reports & whom have covered up or simply didn’t report to police the crimes those in their organization have committed and/or admitted to.
In regards to Jack’s comments about people simply doing all of this out of money and trying to send innocent people to jail….. that’s a broad generalization based on a very tiny amount of cases.
Most of these priests have been found guilty and sent to jail not just based on “He said / she said” evidence (or lack there of)….. but on solid evidence, un-changing testimonies, and in cases like the more recent with the Bishop in Nova Scotia, things like finding child porn and other types of evidence on their computers, or photos, or videos…… and the accusations against most of the priests are made from not just one or two people, but dozens of people, most of whom never knew each other.
One such priest who was found guilty a few years back in New Brunswick actually spent a few years preaching at the church I used to go to as a child. At a young age, I almost took my father’s advice in becoming an altar boy while he was there. At the last minute, for reasons I’m still not sure of, I decided I didn’t want to do it. And I’m glad I didn’t.
You may not be Roman Catholic and thus, how close to home these type of situations can hit you are very limited….. but it was very close to home for me and if I have a bit of bias towards the Roman Catholic Church as a whole, imo, it’s well justified and it’s not just restricted to these incidences.
Have whatever view you may have on what I say or my views…. I personally don’t care, but I’ll stand by what I have said thus far.
You have your views, and I have mine.
Not surprisingly, you glossed over all the other occupations I mentioned, of which butcher was just one, since almost everyone eats meat. And even butchers are guided by laws compassionate to animals. Sadly some liberal aren't as compassionate to those with whom they disagree.
If the justice system was that easily fooled to send so many to prison for things they never did, then I’m sure there’d be a crap load of people tossed into jail every single day by simply pointing your finger and yelling “Witch”
Hell, if it was that easy, I should be able to toss you in the slammer right now based on some baseless claim.
The fact of the matter is that these people went to jail because there was evidence to support them being sent to jail.
Yes, there were a few people who were wrongly accused and that’s wrong….. but your claims that “few” of those cases were actually legit is quite a claim that I believe requires some backing up with some facts or statistics
The reality is that you’re only providing assumptions and that you think you know more about these many cases then those who were involved, or the courts/judges who oversaw these cases, whom also seen a hell of a lot more evidence or lack there of per case then you or I have.
Only by neocons. Yet it's those same right wing religious conservative fundies that are the ones wanting to burn books and kill people for it.
If you say so.
Liar, I read the report.
You said...
Why don't you actually read the report, instead of somebody elses interpretation thereof.
What debate? How do I debate your imagination?
No it isn't.
It isn't selective, it's consistent.
Really...
Which doesn't include Priests, or Roman Catholics?
I was raised by a Roman Catholic residential school survivor. I went to Roman catholic school. I was once this sites most vitriolic anti Roman catholic, I made a priest tell me to f!ck off.
It's not glossing, none of the other occupations compare to the expectations of a priest, who is in a special position with those children who serve the alter. A fact you glossed over in your comparison.
Only by neocons. Yet it's those same right wing religious conservative fundies that are the ones wanting to burn books and kill people for it.
Now who's making broad exaggerated generalisations huh?;-)
First of all let me say our family has been Catholic since Christ was a cowboy as the saying
goes. I had an Aunt that was a nun and several that were involved with the Knights of Columbus.
I am really happy to see how the church has taken responsibility for its actions. Blaming the 60's
and 70's for the sexual evils of the world. Good God, the abuse has gone on for centuries and
tell the native kids once in the residential schools long before the sixties, that this is a problem
from those two decades.
If anything, the evils of the churches and societies repressive attitudes caused the rebellion of the
sixties and seventies. Remember Lucretia Borgia? She was the daughter of a Pope for heavens
sake, who was the most corrupt individual in church history, it was the first era of sex drugs and
rock and roll.
How could they even say this with a straight face? A report undoubtedly done with divine input and
the hand of the Holy Spirit. I think the Church should hang its head in shame for such nonsense.
They want to make amends and ask for forgiveness, while continuing to shirk their responsibility.
I hope they are sued till there is nothing left of them if this is there arrogant attitude. Their actions,
and the actions of so many churches and religions is the reason I will have nothing to do with them.
I wonder could God even forgive this?
goes. I had an Aunt that was a nun and several that were involved with the Knights of Columbus.
I am really happy to see how the church has taken responsibility for its actions. Blaming the 60's
and 70's for the sexual evils of the world. Good God, the abuse has gone on for centuries and
tell the native kids once in the residential schools long before the sixties, that this is a problem
from those two decades.
If anything, the evils of the churches and societies repressive attitudes caused the rebellion of the
sixties and seventies. Remember Lucretia Borgia? She was the daughter of a Pope for heavens
sake, who was the most corrupt individual in church history, it was the first era of sex drugs and
rock and roll.
How could they even say this with a straight face? A report undoubtedly done with divine input and
the hand of the Holy Spirit. I think the Church should hang its head in shame for such nonsense.
They want to make amends and ask for forgiveness, while continuing to shirk their responsibility.
I hope they are sued till there is nothing left of them if this is there arrogant attitude. Their actions,
and the actions of so many churches and religions is the reason I will have nothing to do with them.
I wonder could God even forgive this?
So all the kids that were abused by preachers prior to 1960 were ? Able to see the future and decided to get a head start before all the 8 year old boys were taken?
The report does not "blame" the 60's and 70's for the abuse. Read the fu cking report.
I'm a praticing Catholic and have been for most of my 70+ years. BUT... when I was young we lived ia the Our Lady of Perpetual Help parish and there was a constant stacatto about priest trying to fondle the Altar Servers. It went on for years. The uproar was so constant and on going that my dad called the church Our Lady of Perpetual Pedophiles. My mom would get upset but he did have a point. For years the US Bishops hid these perverts out. The thought was the offenders would Confess their sins, experience some religious uplifting and repent. WRONG!!! They just keep diddling the kids and evidently still are. No one is above or below the law. All of these freaks should be rounded up, charged for the crimes that can be proven and then Castrated. I wonder what the Homily would sound like when delivered in a higher octave?
Sacred Heart Church, I used to go there sometimes though our family usually went to mass at Holy Rosary. One of the reasons, I went to Sacred Heart in my teens was because I thought the folk music was so cool. I was really into Baez, Ian and Sylvia, Wood Guthrie et al back then.
Even mentioning the time period is an excuse of course the Catholic Church wouldn't do it
directly, they convey it, indirectly. That is the churches way, don't confront an issue head
on, lest someone suggest you might be guilty of something. The sleazy Bishop in Nova
Scotia is a prime example. They kept moving the guy from church to church and never took
a moment to think about the young lives they were destroying. Now of course they want the
parishioners to chip in and pay up, and the church property has to be sold off as well to pay for
the criminal activity of their priests and Bishops.
I left a long time ago, because as a parishioner I had heard stories about these people and I
didn't approve of the extreme right wing view the church always seem to take. There was one
election where the priest even mentioned what party good catholics should support in that
campaign. I left and did not return. it was the last straw. Oh I have a brother in law who was
the grand what ever of the Knights of Columbus and our family still goes off to Mass on Sunday
but me, I have heard and seen enough. The Church is not alone and I am not singling out the
Catholic Church either, there are all kinds of other offenders in other Christian denominations
and I think there should be some changes.
First all priests ministers and what ever they call themselves that commit such crimes should
serve twenty years without parole.
All church property where the offence took place should be seized by the state, sold and the
money given to the victims.
All churches should be paying taxes for all activities that are not related to helping the poor the
homeless and feeding the starving. The churches have become a business and as such should
pay taxes for anything other that charitable works.
In addition, they should not be allowed to sell miracles unless they are proven by science and
detailed and proven.
The report is nothing more than trying to say its someone else's fault. Its like saying a woman
wouldn't be raped if she wore, more conservative clothing, instead of understanding that people
including priests have to be responsible for their actions regardless of circumstance.
directly, they convey it, indirectly. That is the churches way, don't confront an issue head
on, lest someone suggest you might be guilty of something. The sleazy Bishop in Nova
Scotia is a prime example. They kept moving the guy from church to church and never took
a moment to think about the young lives they were destroying. Now of course they want the
parishioners to chip in and pay up, and the church property has to be sold off as well to pay for
the criminal activity of their priests and Bishops.
I left a long time ago, because as a parishioner I had heard stories about these people and I
didn't approve of the extreme right wing view the church always seem to take. There was one
election where the priest even mentioned what party good catholics should support in that
campaign. I left and did not return. it was the last straw. Oh I have a brother in law who was
the grand what ever of the Knights of Columbus and our family still goes off to Mass on Sunday
but me, I have heard and seen enough. The Church is not alone and I am not singling out the
Catholic Church either, there are all kinds of other offenders in other Christian denominations
and I think there should be some changes.
First all priests ministers and what ever they call themselves that commit such crimes should
serve twenty years without parole.
All church property where the offence took place should be seized by the state, sold and the
money given to the victims.
All churches should be paying taxes for all activities that are not related to helping the poor the
homeless and feeding the starving. The churches have become a business and as such should
pay taxes for anything other that charitable works.
In addition, they should not be allowed to sell miracles unless they are proven by science and
detailed and proven.
The report is nothing more than trying to say its someone else's fault. Its like saying a woman
wouldn't be raped if she wore, more conservative clothing, instead of understanding that people
including priests have to be responsible for their actions regardless of circumstance.
A few legitimate claims??? Far more gold-diggers???? You do nothing but prove your ignorance and stupidity with this. Thousands of victims and all the convictions prove you wrong. Couple all that up with the fact that most child abuse goes unreported and you have a recipe for untold amounts of abuse. You are obviously not normal as I have seen from your views in other threads but seem to resemble a neaderthal caveman, although I would suggest they had a little more power of logical thought and understanding than you.
Here let me answer that. I would suggest from the evidence I have seen in the news that there are far more pedophile priests than any other profession, we are talking about tens of thousands of cases worldwide. Some of these priests did hundreds of children over the course of decades and the only response from the bishops and cardinals was to give them a fresh crop of victims. So if anyone is glossing over something it is you. I would also suggest that if a butcher's or a teacher's (or whatever other profession you mentioned) employer or association found out they would be reported to the cops immediately and throw out of that association, not protected and hidden.
No, it suggests that there was an increase in abuse during this period that was the result of the societal values of the time which is a load of bullsh*t and a very lame excuse. More people were willing to come forward from this era and still are coming forward.
If the church leadership had any balls they would have turned every incident over to the police immediately. Instead they chose to try to hide it and kept these pedophiles on the payroll knowingly. How can we trust or believe anything from them after that?
Why would I read the entire report from the organization that hid and supported these scumbags and has a history of covering for their own and trying to rewrite history for their benefit. All I need is the knowledge that the catholic church is the most corrupt, egotistical, self-centered corporations on the planet. And I do mean corporation! Making any excuse for these incidents is laughable and their actions of covering it all up and denying it for years means anything they have to say is not credible in any way.
Now I am not talking about your average parishoner, not even you Gerry, but the leadership and management of the organization. I feel so sorry for the good catholics out there because these things are going to hang over the church for generations.
While I get what you're saying, you can't dismiss both issues as factors. Preists don't exist outside of society, they come from within our communities. So if our communities are seeing an upsurge in sexualization, and a freeing up of our sense of sexual restrictions, not only the healthy among us are going to be impacted by it. Pedophiles will too. To try to pretend it's not a factor at all is, well, a bit of flawed thiking. But, considering what follows, and the fact that you're admitting to putting on blinders in order to maintain your assumptions, I guess it makes sense why you're coming to the conclusion you are.