By that logic, as long as there is one thief in town, you should feel free to steal as well.
Climate Debate Should Stick to Facts
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By that logic, as long as there is one thief in town, you should feel free to steal as well.
Most of the climate debate is made up of emotional reaction, sketchy fact, lies, deceptions and
distorted truth, and where did you say the facts should fit in?
distorted truth, and where did you say the facts should fit in?
You better watch it- the ocean is going to rise 50' in our lifetime, but hey there's a water shortage happenin' :lol:
Plus the fact that China, India, and Brazil will NEVER give in to anyone's demands. That's why they have the "Developing Nation" status. They will gladly take any money the West is foolishly willing to give them though.
JLM oh God I should be concerned about that I own a hundred twenty acres near the ocean of
Cape Breton Island. should I start sandbagging it now or have I some time to think about it?
Cape Breton Island. should I start sandbagging it now or have I some time to think about it?
You should have dikes 3/4 built by now..............Don't forget 50' high! :lol:
This is a troublesome topic to explain to some people because of the fundamental lack of understand of how science is done. I know Carl Sagan (not long before his death) found this very concerning. People need to understand how various scientific modalities are all independently converging on the same conclusion independent of one another. They also lack the understanding of the predictive nature of theory. Take for example Einstein's general theory (or was it special theory). Though it's true, you can never "prove" anything beyond any doubt, Einstein's theories allow us to make predictions about how future events will play out (GPS satellites require this predictive nature of his theories.). In addition, there is no understanding of the way in which statistics are used to tease out randomness, background noise and coincidence from causality. Until people have a better understanding of how science is done and start to think like scientists themselves, they will continue spreading misinformation and misuse of terms. Perhaps the worst is the use of the term "theory", as in "it's only a theory". Very frustrating indeed.
Again, you place blame on the general populace, for not being educated enough.
Does the populace need to be carpenters to buy a home?
Do they need to be mechanics to make a decision about what car to buy?
Does a hunter have to have a degree in animal husbandry, to be successful?
No, across the board.
What the general populace needs, is to be informed, weigh the various sources, explanations of data sets and intel, and try and formulate an informed opinion.
That's why we have experts in various fields. Experts we should be able to trust.
Start with this fact first and see where it gets you. At the top of our atmosphere, the energy flux is downward...there is more energy coming into the atmosphere than there is energy leaving. The planet must warm. The upper atmosphere is cooling as well, while the lower atmosphere warms. Its clear that something is blocking the transmission of energy back to the upper atmosphere, and back to space. There is only one clear cause for this.
Just want to chime in on the argument of finger pointing at other developed nations for not taking the first initiative.
What an ignorant, sorry, pitiful, lame, pussified, american argument that is.
That is all.
What an ignorant, sorry, pitiful, lame, pussified, american argument that is.
That is all.
I'd say all debates should stick to the facts.
The problem, as I see it, is that most debates and issues today seem to get hijacked by sensationalists and extremists. Reason quickly falls by the wayside and it is exceedingly difficult to glean any kind of factual information from anyone with an extremist attitude. Passion and dedication are wonderful things and necessary for any idea or issue to move forward, but they shouldn't overwhelm the entire message.
The difficulty of trying to ascertain the facts in the climate change debate is a little like trying to navigate some the political threads on this forum. One needs to dodge idiot, moron, nazi, left-tard, brain dead, etc, etc, just to get to the meat and potatoes of what someone is trying to actually say. It can be very tiring and causes a lot of people to simply give up trying to find the facts.
The problem, as I see it, is that most debates and issues today seem to get hijacked by sensationalists and extremists. Reason quickly falls by the wayside and it is exceedingly difficult to glean any kind of factual information from anyone with an extremist attitude. Passion and dedication are wonderful things and necessary for any idea or issue to move forward, but they shouldn't overwhelm the entire message.
The difficulty of trying to ascertain the facts in the climate change debate is a little like trying to navigate some the political threads on this forum. One needs to dodge idiot, moron, nazi, left-tard, brain dead, etc, etc, just to get to the meat and potatoes of what someone is trying to actually say. It can be very tiring and causes a lot of people to simply give up trying to find the facts.
I think you're missing the point. The "other" developed nations have been given a "developing" status because the Climate folks know beyond a shadow of a doubt that China and India will not budge in the development of their economy. The growth of their economy will not be halted by the Global Warming theory.
So why should we.
But by all means... don't wait for us. Enact economy crippling regulations, give billions to the 3rd World. Don't wait for the US. If you're waiting for the US... well that is sorry, lame, pitiful, pussified, etc.
The reason for the climate scam is clear. Just like the anti logging protests in the 80s& 90s it is all about raking in donations from the gullible so a select group can party their way around the world and contribute nothing to society. This doesn't mean that we should deliberately go out and pollute the environment but we must be realistic about destroying our economy while buying garbage from China.
Copenhagen proved that. All the "developing nations" could talk about was how to split the money. They were fighting about it actually. They already decided on the amount that Europe, Canada, and the U.S would pay. Heck that was a done deal. It was a money grab with very little to do with saving the Earth.
And when our President said "No", they were furious! I remember a woman on NPR ripping Obama saying all he had to do was sign the document and he had no business coming in a trying to change things or discuss things. Oh, and she defended China.
In the long run, if the rest of the world sees that you have put a dent in your economy to do some good, they will return the favour and help you out.
It's the same principle we use when we have the balls to spend billions on jets to save a village of brown people and then we expect to get some oil out of it.
Except in this case, we're not pretending we're heroes.
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You are absolutely right, but being right does not necessarily mean that we will drop everything to insure that we comply with reducing green house gas's. Creating a carbon tax will only make the government richer and people poorer, there is no way to ease the pain of it. Some travel is unavoidable. We are reducing things like automotive emissions, creating wind and solar farms, but I don't see us cutting back on coal burning plants anytime soon, especially with the economy in the condition it is, plus we have such large reserves of coal right here. It was easier for Europe to accept because they have no major resources as a group. They are already slaves to Russia as far as natural gas is concerned, adding Russian coal would make them even more vulnerable.
Why are they considered developing nations, they have just about everything we have and are building fast.
Oh my gosh Floss. Are you kidding me? They won't give two bleeps about us or Canada for that matter.
What oil. Where is all this oil we are supposed to be getting? I've not seen a drop and the US is not a member of OPEC are we?
Do you get that at all?
Well, by all means... be a Environmental Hero and lead the way. Grind your economy to a halt. Canada is actually doing fairly well compared to many countries but if you feel the need to cripple your country economically on the off chance that you'll be loved by others knock yourself out.
Well as I've said before. Trying to get China to do anything they don't want to do would be like talking to a brick wall. China would just smile and nod... and ignore. Same with India.
The US however lends an ear and if you lend an ear to a Global Warming-Save the Earth group they will chew it off.
It comes down to this, I don't mind change as long as I personally don't have to change anything.
Extremists and people like Gore and Dr. Suzuki and God knows who else tell us how bad it is and
how much we have to give up for change and then say we can do this together. Like hell everyone
is going to protect their own piece of turf no matter how you look at it. If people were told the actual
truth, which won't happen anytime soon, they would do nothing because the problem may well
be there, but it is not as bad as the dire predictions. If that were known there would be no
motivation for change, and the money coming into the vested interests would slow to a trickle.
There are all kinds of special interest groups with vested interests and the environment has little
to do with the agenda anymore.
The world of business has entered the green movement for the purpose of selling all that new
technology to frightened people, energy companies will sell you more efficient light bulbs to save
while they sell new air conditioners, new furnaces, and alternate systems that will save you money
in about 30years after you paid for them. There are windmills and smart cars, new transit trains,
and water filtration systems and of course the yard and garden people are there with plants and
irrigation systems and the list is endless. Of course green is in there is a buck in it, the hippies
who first drew attention to the problem have been pushed aside by politicians, business, and
motivational speakers posing as education instructors.
Kind of leads one to question the credibility of the statements being made does it not?
The solutions have become more expensive than the problem. Truth be damned we are too
busy counting the cash to actually deal with the truth. Do any of you think I have become a little
cynical? Well I haven't I am just tired of so many people being so positive and gullible that they
can't see they are being hosed by people who should be protecting our interests.
Extremists and people like Gore and Dr. Suzuki and God knows who else tell us how bad it is and
how much we have to give up for change and then say we can do this together. Like hell everyone
is going to protect their own piece of turf no matter how you look at it. If people were told the actual
truth, which won't happen anytime soon, they would do nothing because the problem may well
be there, but it is not as bad as the dire predictions. If that were known there would be no
motivation for change, and the money coming into the vested interests would slow to a trickle.
There are all kinds of special interest groups with vested interests and the environment has little
to do with the agenda anymore.
The world of business has entered the green movement for the purpose of selling all that new
technology to frightened people, energy companies will sell you more efficient light bulbs to save
while they sell new air conditioners, new furnaces, and alternate systems that will save you money
in about 30years after you paid for them. There are windmills and smart cars, new transit trains,
and water filtration systems and of course the yard and garden people are there with plants and
irrigation systems and the list is endless. Of course green is in there is a buck in it, the hippies
who first drew attention to the problem have been pushed aside by politicians, business, and
motivational speakers posing as education instructors.
Kind of leads one to question the credibility of the statements being made does it not?
The solutions have become more expensive than the problem. Truth be damned we are too
busy counting the cash to actually deal with the truth. Do any of you think I have become a little
cynical? Well I haven't I am just tired of so many people being so positive and gullible that they
can't see they are being hosed by people who should be protecting our interests.