Goldstone report on Cast Lead - Repudiated - By Goldstone - If I had of known then???
- Thread starter Goober
- Start date
That didn't last long. Beliefs can be shredded and I stand by my belief that Lebanon nor Gaza did anything that demanded a month long military campaign when the victims are forbidden from shooting back. That opinion will never change.
Talk about spin, Goldstone isn't retracting the report.
Read what he wrote in his own words:
Reconsidering the Goldstone Report on Israel and war crimes - The Washington Post
To summarize, Goldstone is saying, "If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document."
That's not a retraction.
Also:
Also since writing this report, Goldstone has been harassed, chastised, blocked from attending family functions at synagogues... I imagine years of abuse have taken a toll. I'm not sure how long a person can last under that sort of pressure and abuse. I suspect Goldstone just wants his life back so he made a statement which is accurate, but vague enough that Israeli apologists can spin it into saying he made a retraction. Hopefully this concession is enough that Israel will call off the attack dogs and Goldstone can get his life back.
Read what he wrote in his own words:
Reconsidering the Goldstone Report on Israel and war crimes - The Washington Post
To summarize, Goldstone is saying, "If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document."
That's not a retraction.
Also:
The problem at the time the report was being written was a lack of Israeli cooperation. Since then, Israel has conducted a series of investigations which revealed information that Goldstone didn't know at the time of the report.
Also since writing this report, Goldstone has been harassed, chastised, blocked from attending family functions at synagogues... I imagine years of abuse have taken a toll. I'm not sure how long a person can last under that sort of pressure and abuse. I suspect Goldstone just wants his life back so he made a statement which is accurate, but vague enough that Israeli apologists can spin it into saying he made a retraction. Hopefully this concession is enough that Israel will call off the attack dogs and Goldstone can get his life back.
He wasn't even there how could he qualify as a witness even? He was to be a 'fact-finder', his Judge title just added to what he would think was an important event curing a military campaign against civilians. You would think the answer was quite obvious, anybody complaining about civilians being shot by military personel anyplace else in the world these days? What is the opinion in those instances. Israel's solution was to hire 50,000 mercs so they could shoot civilians in Libya, saving the military from doing it. Not real nice neighbors.
I love it when the jew haters post links with the erroneous hope that the link will not be read and instead the assumption will be made that the link supports the jew haters contentions.
In this instance I HAVE read the link and it DOES support the OP's title and contentions.,
In this instance I HAVE read the link and it DOES support the OP's title and contentions.,
Strange things happen....
10 years ago al Qaeda hated freedom and democracy but are now running around the Mid East and N Africa fighting for it side side with SAS and the likes.
Next thing ya know the PA and Knesset will be running trade missions to Botswana.
10 years ago al Qaeda hated freedom and democracy but are now running around the Mid East and N Africa fighting for it side side with SAS and the likes.
Next thing ya know the PA and Knesset will be running trade missions to Botswana.
Yes it does support the OP's title and contentions. But its also incomplete and deliberately misleading.
Again read his own words, not an interpretation of his words
By Richard Goldstone, Friday, April 1
We know a lot more today about what happened in the Gaza war of 2008-09 than we did when I chaired the fact-finding mission appointed by the U.N. Human Rights Council that produced what has come to be known as the Goldstone Report. If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document.
The final report by the U.N. committee of independent experts — chaired by former New York judge Mary McGowan Davis — that followed up on the recommendations of the Goldstone Report has found that “Israel has dedicated significant resources to investigate over 400 allegations of operational misconduct in Gaza” while “the de facto authorities (i.e., Hamas) have not conducted any investigations into the launching of rocket and mortar attacks against Israel.”
Our report found evidence of potential war crimes and “possibly crimes against humanity” by both Israel and Hamas. That the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying — its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets.
The allegations of intentionality by Israel were based on the deaths of and injuries to civilians in situations where our fact-finding mission had no evidence on which to draw any other reasonable conclusion. While the investigations published by the Israeli military and recognized in the U.N. committee’s report have established the validity of some incidents that we investigated in cases involving individual soldiers, they also indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy.
For example, the most serious attack the Goldstone Report focused on was the killing of some 29 members of the al-Simouni family in their home. The shelling of the home was apparently the consequence of an Israeli commander’s erroneous interpretation of a drone image, and an Israeli officer is under investigation for having ordered the attack. While the length of this investigation is frustrating, it appears that an appropriate process is underway, and I am confident that if the officer is found to have been negligent, Israel will respond accordingly. The purpose of these investigations, as I have always said, is to ensure accountability for improper actions, not to second-guess, with the benefit of hindsight, commanders making difficult battlefield decisions.
While I welcome Israel’s investigations into allegations, I share the concerns reflected in the McGowan Davis report that few of Israel’s inquiries have been concluded and believe that the proceedings should have been held in a public forum. Although the Israeli evidence that has emerged since publication of our report doesn’t negate the tragic loss of civilian life, I regret that our fact-finding mission did not have such evidence explaining the circumstances in which we said civilians in Gaza were targeted, because it probably would have influenced our findings about intentionality and war crimes.
Israel’s lack of cooperation with our investigation meant that we were not able to corroborate how many Gazans killed were civilians and how many were combatants. The Israeli military’s numbers have turned out to be similar to those recently furnished by Hamas (although Hamas may have reason to inflate the number of its combatants).
As I indicated from the very beginning, I would have welcomed Israel’s cooperation. The purpose of the Goldstone Report was never to prove a foregone conclusion against Israel. I insisted on changing the original mandate adopted by the Human Rights Council, which was skewed against Israel. I have always been clear that Israel, like any other sovereign nation, has the right and obligation to defend itself and its citizens against attacks from abroad and within. Something that has not been recognized often enough is the fact that our report marked the first time illegal acts of terrorism from Hamas were being investigated and condemned by the United Nations. I had hoped that our inquiry into all aspects of the Gaza conflict would begin a new era of evenhandedness at the U.N. Human Rights Council, whose history of bias against Israel cannot be doubted.
Some have charged that the process we followed did not live up to judicial standards. To be clear: Our mission was in no way a judicial or even quasi-judicial proceeding. We did not investigate criminal conduct on the part of any individual in Israel, Gaza or the West Bank. We made our recommendations based on the record before us, which unfortunately did not include any evidence provided by the Israeli government. Indeed, our main recommendation was for each party to investigate, transparently and in good faith, the incidents referred to in our report. McGowan Davis has found that Israel has done this to a significant degree; Hamas has done nothing.
Some have suggested that it was absurd to expect Hamas, an organization that has a policy to destroy the state of Israel, to investigate what we said were serious war crimes. It was my hope, even if unrealistic, that Hamas would do so, especially if Israel conducted its own investigations. At minimum I hoped that in the face of a clear finding that its members were committing serious war crimes, Hamas would curtail its attacks. Sadly, that has not been the case. Hundreds more rockets and mortar rounds have been directed at civilian targets in southern Israel. That comparatively few Israelis have been killed by the unlawful rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza in no way minimizes the criminality. The U.N. Human Rights Council should condemn these heinous acts in the strongest terms.
In the end, asking Hamas to investigate may have been a mistaken enterprise. So, too, the Human Rights Council should condemn the inexcusable and cold-blooded recent slaughter of a young Israeli couple and three of their small children in their beds.
I continue to believe in the cause of establishing and applying international law to protracted and deadly conflicts. Our report has led to numerous “lessons learned” and policy changes, including the adoption of new Israel Defense Forces procedures for protecting civilians in cases of urban warfare and limiting the use of white phosphorus in civilian areas. The Palestinian Authority established an independent inquiry into our allegations of human rights abuses — assassinations, torture and illegal detentions — perpetrated by Fatah in the West Bank, especially against members of Hamas. Most of those allegations were confirmed by this inquiry. Regrettably, there has been no effort by Hamas in Gaza to investigate the allegations of its war crimes and possible crimes against humanity.
Simply put, the laws of armed conflict apply no less to non-state actors such as Hamas than they do to national armies. Ensuring that non-state actors respect these principles, and are investigated when they fail to do so, is one of the most significant challenges facing the law of armed conflict. Only if all parties to armed conflicts are held to these standards will we be able to protect civilians who, through no choice of their own, are caught up in war.
The writer, a retired justice of the Constitutional Court of South Africa and former chief prosecutor of the U.N. International Criminal Tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda, chaired the U.N. fact-finding mission on the Gaza conflict.
eao: I agree with most of what Goldstone says. The Israeli government has done more than their counter parts in Gaza to investigate war crimes. If I understand Justice Goldstone, he now believes it was not Israeli government or military policy to commit war crimes. He never mentioned crimes against humanity in the form of interfering with humanitarian aid (food, medicine, parts to repair water/sewage/electrical... infrastructure, which are government policy and ongoing.
The herding of people into a home still happened. I would guess the Israeli military panel cleared itself of wrong doing, by an internal private process. Apparently it was a result of incompetence rather than malice.Palestinians must be satisfied that justice has been done.
But at least the Israeli military admitted that it happened, which is more than can be said for Hamas, who haven't even started any investigation. They should have investigated Goldstone's findings that militants fired rockets at civilians, by an internal process like Israel. They could also claim that their investigation cleared them of wrong doing like Israel. They too could also claim it was not their policy to commit war crimes but the acts of incompetent individuals, just like Israel. Israelis would then be just as satisfied that justice has been done and both sides could get back to killing each other.
BTW, another battle is coming... soon... I predict Israel will hammer Gazans with unrelenting fury and viciousness and it will be covered live on alJazeera. Palestinian militants will fire more rockets at Israel. I hope Egypt opens the borders and let unarmed civilians flee the fighting. Gaza will become a constant battlefield.
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Exactly Gerry - They used the Goldstone report - Not having read all of it - then slammed Isreal who had made claims to the contrary - A proper report would have investigated all of that - it was a rush to judgement - Rushed Timeline to meet UN commitments - The decison was a Fait accompli = An accomplished fact; an action which is completed before those affected by it are in a position to query or reverse .
And we all know what happen then. Mistakes -
Now their respective arses are in a sling -
If you are expecting me to cower from a person who fully support the ways and means of the RCC as currently practiced, even to the point their Priests have 'diplomatic immunity' when it comes to how they interact with the ones that they should be caring for, then learn to enjoy the sound of your whiskers growing cause it will be a very long time before that would ever happen. Clean up your own shop before you come into mine demanding changes.
Do you hate a child when you take a stick away from them when they start hitting everyone they can reach? Of course you do, once the other children are safe then the anger can fade, your hatred of who was the victim of Cast Lead stops you seeing that. What bully doesn't use the , "It's their fault I had to punish them." mentality.
I have read the entire Goldstone report and I know well what it says. It mentions a very long list of war crimes or possible war crimes mostly but not exclusively by Israel and a crime against humanity by Israel.
I read what Goldstone wrote on April fool's day and I see someone being cleverly vague and highly selective in word choice. Interpret that how you like.
Goldstone never said war crimes and a crime against humanity weren't committed. He says his report would have been different if he knew then what he knows now... Interpret that how you like too.
I read what Goldstone wrote on April fool's day and I see someone being cleverly vague and highly selective in word choice. Interpret that how you like.
Goldstone never said war crimes and a crime against humanity weren't committed. He says his report would have been different if he knew then what he knows now... Interpret that how you like too.
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Without that report nobody would have heard of incidents like the flour-mill, pretty much opens the door Lebanon to claim the roght to do their own investigation of accusations that come from the SLT findings. Hezebula could withdraw funding and Judges (as would be the right of the accused to not have to fund their own trial and have it appear legit, yet the West is still hoping for the money part to come through because a 5 year trial would be extremely expensive as the guilty would be under no obligation to pick up the tab. The live brostcasting right would bring them a tidy sum also as the world grows tired od hollywodd and their issues with life.
I hope the camera is on the audience when the hacked footage of an Israeli drone following the action as it happened is played. lol
All of a sudden everybody has some texting to do. lol
Guess they missed a bit of critical info. It was a commission based upon the Clint Eastwood style - Hangem High -
United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza conflict
Methodology
The Mission worked on the basis of international human rights and humanitarian law and international investigative standards developed by the United Nations.
The Mission reviewed reports produced by various organizations and institutions as well as submissions on matters of fact and law relevant to its inquiry. A notice has been issued to call for submissions (see above). The Mission consulted with a wide range of interlocutors including victims and witnesses, Palestinian, Israeli and international NGOs, United Nations and other international organizations, community organizations, human rights defenders, medical and other professionals, legal and military experts, authorities and other sources of reliable information relevant to its mandate, within and outside Israel and the occupied Palestinian territory. The Mission also held public hearings on particular issues of concern related to its mandate.
Information-gathering methods included the analysis of video and photographic images, including satellite imagery: Satellite image analysis in support to the United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict.
Submission of Report
The Report of the Mission will be submitted to the Human Rights Council during its 12th Session in September 2009 and presented to the Council on 29 September.
Better yet they can go to the UN site and read up the follow-up documents, three were there the last time I checked, they cover Israel's responses to some of the items that made the list and there was a follow up asking for further investigation and that was left to the IDF to complete. That is where it was about a year ago, that is where the details of the flout-mill came from, the other points they cover are just as detailed. From the look of it, a UN Court was never the intended destination if the reason for the destruction of hospitals, water treatment facilities, sewage treatment facilities was accepted without argument. Face it if the IDF can protect a settler while he cements a well and that doesn't come up as a war crime then nothing is going to be prosecuted. JMHO
How does that go, hang-em in the morning and then have the trial later that same day?
I LOVE it!
After hiding out and planing your response for a full day, this is the BEST you can come up with?
How about an apology to those of us that have been trying to give you the truth all this time, from all the obvious and overwhelming evidence of a LACK of Israeli war crimes: as in the extremely light civilian casualties and the Hamas admission that their military wing was crippled.
No, despite the evidence, despite even Goldstone's reversal, you INSIST on believing the fairy tale of extensive Israeli "war crimes".
Then you have the unmitigated gall to claim neutrality.
SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!
At the very least you could have acknowledged that some reports of Israeli war crimes were false.....you could then still have debated on the subject of the legitimacy of Israel's attack.....but no, you would rather line up with the Islamist Jew-haters.......
And still claim neutrality.
SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!
My advice to you is to take a long, analytical look at yourself in the mirror, consider the complete irrationality of your position, and try to maintain a shred of honour with a recognition of your mistakes..........
Or just STFU.
You were doing so well with the second option.
Or Hangem first, then we have the trial at the saloon - Or shootem all and let God sortem out.
The report was flawed - It was a rush to judgment - Many on this forum stated the same thing and all we heard was - Goldstone Report.
Both sides commit War Crimes - But Hamas' political aim is the elimination of the State of Israel - Jew Free - Judenrein
Ein Land
Ein Volk
Judenfrei
The Arabs of that mindset had great teachers - But is you recall your History, even the Nazis were sickened by the Mufti from Jerusalem and his concentration camps run by Muslims in the Balkans during WW2.