Wisconsin Republicans - "No Room For Compromise"

[earth_as_one]

Is your solution is to lower everyone to the same level of compensation as China?

The jobs that are going to move to offshore are going to move offshore... Some jobs can't be moved to China:

Fireman, police, doctor, electrician, plumber....

These jobs will stay here and I see no reason to lower their level of compensation to the same level as China.

No one is forcing you to be fairly compensated. If you think you make too much money, feel free to give some back to your employer. But don't try to drag other people down to the same level as a Chinese worker.

What gets me are the millions of idiots who believe that they make too much money and have too many rights and fight for increased compensation and rights of the wealthy elite at their own expense and the expense of other middle class people.

Its about time, people realized that we are getting shafted and stand up for themselves like the good people on strike in Wisconsin.

 

[BaalsTears]

Nonsense! Canada has higher taxes than the US but we still have jobs here. In fact, our economy is stronger than the American's. It is a ridiculous oversimplification to draw a straight line between taxes and job loss.

At least half of Americans fear and do not trust the federal govt. imo. The federal govt. is in major expansion mode and in the possession of class warfare types. It simply doesn't make sense generally to create jobs in such an atmosphere. The consequences are too unpredictable. The American left is very harsh and very aggressive. That reduces predicatability.

Is your solution is to lower everyone to the same level of compensation as China?

The jobs that are going to move to offshore are going to move offshore... Some jobs can't be moved to China:

Fireman, police, doctor, electrician, plumber....

These jobs will stay here and I see no reason to lower their level of compensation to the same level as China.

No one is forcing you to be fairly compensated. If you think you make too much money, feel free to give some back to your employer. But don't try to drag other people down to the same level as a Chinese worker.

What gets me are the millions of idiots who believe that they make too much money and have too many rights and fight for increased compensation and rights of the wealthy elite at their own expense and the expense of other middle class people.

Its about time, people realized that we are getting shafted and stand up for themselves like the good people on strike in Wisconsin.

Investment capital is required to create jobs. Because of globalized capital markets it is now possible for capital to go anywhere in the world looking for security, predictability and rate of return. That is simply the truth.

Because of that terrible truth, American private sector workers are now in direct competition with all of the other workers of the world. Thus, American workers must look for comparative advantages in order to entice investment capital. Advantages like an educated and skilled work force, infrastructure, etc.

Public sector workers should not be treated as an elite who are entitled to greater security, higher wages, greater benefits and better pensions plans than the private sector workers they serve. Otherwise we are simply creating and maintaining a new elite.

The thing for American workers to do is to step up their game. If they can't step up their game they should move to Newfoundland and shovel ****.

 

[TenPenny]

The thing for American workers to do is to step up their game. If they can't step up their game they should move to Newfoundland and shovel ****.

Don't need any more Americans in Newfoundland. With the oil and gas business the way it is, there are enough Americans there already.

 

[BaalsTears]

Don't need any more Americans in Newfoundland. With the oil and gas business the way it is, there are enough Americans there already.

Haha. But we're real good at shovelling ****!

 

[Trotz]

At least half of Americans fear and do not trust the federal govt. imo. The federal govt. is in major expansion mode and in the possession of class warfare types. It simply doesn't make sense generally to create jobs in such an atmosphere. The consequences are too unpredictable. The American left is very harsh and very aggressive. That reduces predicatability.

Though I think we can agree this is an understatement. The "Left" still sees itself as being a prosecuted minority; as per the 1960s when they had rebelled against segregration and were doing things like throwing bags of feces at the police, but it has not come to terms with the fact that it now runs the establishment - nonwithstanding a couple of republican presidents who are hailed as George Orwellian Goldsteins; the agenda in the courts has decidely been Radically Democrat (see attacks on gun rights, anti-abortion, Christian religion; et al).

Feel free to challenge me but I have met a lot of American Professors; in Canada, who still believe there is a 1960s race war and somehow the "black man is being kept down", even though there is a black president and black people get fast tracked through affirmitive action and receive more scholarship funds than white people do... the hysterity of the boomer generation in particular leads to most of those in my generation to roll my eyes but nonetheless we have to wait a couple more decades before we can do a thing about it.

Investment capital is required to create jobs. Because of globalized capital markets it is now possible for capital to go anywhere in the world looking for security, predictability and rate of return. That is simply the truth.

Marx did comment on this that the industrialized countries; overflowing with capital, would look to undeveloped markets as a last side of desperation to maintain the capitalist economy.

Public sector workers should not be treated as an elite who are entitled to greater security, higher wages, greater benefits and better pensions plans than the private sector workers they serve. Otherwise we are simply creating and maintaining a new elite.

The thing for American workers to do is to step up their game. If they can't step up their game they should move to Newfoundland and shovel ****.

Tell us about it; we're serving a new aristocracy. If Canada's immigration policies weren't so one sided in the world (we'ld give citizenship to a foreign pet dog if were possible), I would have long ago taken my savings and knowledge and move to a more tolerable environment. Eventually, there will be another "America" as per the 1820s-1880s; where merit is rewarded over bloodline and sense of entitlement.

 

[BaalsTears]

Though I think we can agree this is an understatement. The "Left" still sees itself as being a prosecuted minority; as per the 1960s when they had rebelled against segregration and were doing things like throwing bags of feces at the police, but it has not come to terms with the fact that it now runs the establishment - nonwithstanding a couple of republican presidents who are hailed as George Orwellian Goldsteins; the agenda in the courts has decidely been Radically Democrat (see attacks on gun rights, anti-abortion, Christian religion; et al).

Feel free to challenge me but I have met a lot of American Professors; in Canada, who still believe there is a 1960s race war and somehow the "black man is being kept down", even though there is a black president and black people get fast tracked through affirmitive action and receive more scholarship funds than white people do... the hysterity of the boomer generation in particular leads to most of those in my generation to roll my eyes but nonetheless we have to wait a couple more decades before we can do a thing about it.

Marx did comment on this that the industrialized countries; overflowing with capital, would look to undeveloped markets as a last side of desperation to maintain the capitalist economy.

Tell us about it; we're serving a new aristocracy. If Canada's immigration policies weren't so one sided in the world (we'ld give citizenship to a foreign pet dog if were possible), I would have long ago taken my savings and knowledge and move to a more tolerable environment. Eventually, there will be another "America" as per the 1820s-1880s; where merit is rewarded over bloodline and sense of entitlement.

There's nothing in your post for me to disagree with. Well done.

 

[Avro]

Haha. But we're real good at shovelling ****!

True...you do it all the time.

 

[darkbeaver]

Investment capital is required to create jobs. Because of globalized capital markets it is now possible for capital to go anywhere in the world looking for security, predictability and rate of return. That is simply the truth.

Labour is required to create products and services hence jobs, capital creates nothing but more capital. That mobility of capital is a crime and always has been. Capital generated in any nation must be in the main obliged to remain in that nation. Pandering to the wealthy capitalists has gotten us into this present global crisis and the previous examples of recession for the most part had the same origins. In my opinion it is very unlikely that capitalism as we have known and loathed will not survive the next decade. It's been a human plague for far too long. Having said that I do support the theory of governance by the elite. An acceptable definition of that elite will be a matter of modified democratic agreement. Having endured the elections of thousands of unscrupulous loathsome liars and thieves and surveyed the societal damage at their hands for the last two or three hundred years the lessons learned clearly require a sea change in human governance. That much is obvious. Forget money as we know it now. As long as it exists in its present form there will be nothing but war and misery for the masses while the wealthy fatten themselves on the proceeds of war and compounded interest. No amount of tweeking or jigging the present paradigm can address the needs of humanity. I think my humble opinion is in line with most of the best thinking in these matters. It is elitist you may say. No doubt about, I freely admit to wanting the best most competent examples of the species at the helms of the various ships of state rather than the usual collection of wannabe demigods.

 

[Avro]

Labour is required to create products and services hence jobs, capital creates nothing but more capital. That mobility of capital is a crime and always has been. Capital generated in any nation must be in the main obliged to remain in that nation. Pandering to the wealthy capitalists has gotten us into this present global crisis and the previous examples of recession for the most part had the same origins.

Wow....I actually agree with this.8O

 

[darkbeaver]

Wow....I actually agree with this.8O

And that scares me

 

[Avro]

And that scares me

Scares you?

Almost choked on my money clip when I read that.:lol:

 

[earth_as_one]

The solution isn't to lower standards here, but raise standards there.

 

[ironsides]

Is your solution is to lower everyone to the same level of compensation as China?

The jobs that are going to move to offshore are going to move offshore... Some jobs can't be moved to China:

Fireman, police, doctor, electrician, plumber....

These jobs will stay here and I see no reason to lower their level of compensation to the same level as China.

No one is forcing you to be fairly compensated. If you think you make too much money, feel free to give some back to your employer. But don't try to drag other people down to the same level as a Chinese worker.

What gets me are the millions of idiots who believe that they make too much money and have too many rights and fight for increased compensation and rights of the wealthy elite at their own expense and the expense of other middle class people.

Its about time, people realized that we are getting shafted and stand up for themselves like the good people on strike in Wisconsin.

People are eventually going to work for what ever salary that will give them what the need. Unions spoiled us, drove prices up so we could get better and better things. Do we need those things, not really but were used to them and it will be hard to give them up. This really will become the good old days.

I don't know how many are aware of this or not, but the most affluent suburbes in and around NYC have a volunteer fire department, trained as good or better than most professional ones. As for police, doctor, electrician, plumber etc, they will have to accept salaries that communities can afford.
These people are not idiots, merely spoiled.

 

[BaalsTears]

True...you do it all the time.

I'm not shovelling ****. I'm spoon feeding you truth friend.

Labour is required to create products and services hence jobs, capital creates nothing but more capital. That mobility of capital is a crime and always has been. Capital generated in any nation must be in the main obliged to remain in that nation. Pandering to the wealthy capitalists has gotten us into this present global crisis and the previous examples of recession for the most part had the same origins. In my opinion it is very unlikely that capitalism as we have known and loathed will not survive the next decade. It's been a human plague for far too long. Having said that I do support the theory of governance by the elite. An acceptable definition of that elite will be a matter of modified democratic agreement. Having endured the elections of thousands of unscrupulous loathsome liars and thieves and surveyed the societal damage at their hands for the last two or three hundred years the lessons learned clearly require a sea change in human governance. That much is obvious. Forget money as we know it now. As long as it exists in its present form there will be nothing but war and misery for the masses while the wealthy fatten themselves on the proceeds of war and compounded interest. No amount of tweeking or jigging the present paradigm can address the needs of humanity. I think my humble opinion is in line with most of the best thinking in these matters. It is elitist you may say. No doubt about, I freely admit to wanting the best most competent examples of the species at the helms of the various ships of state rather than the usual collection of wannabe demigods.

I don't necessarily disagree with the diagnosis. Prognosis is key. The world is now globalized. I don't know how to change it.

The solution isn't to lower standards here, but raise standards there.

The key, imo, is to raise educational standards in America. Without that Americans can't compete.

 

[lone wolf]

The key, imo, is to raise educational standards in America. Without that Americans can't compete.

On that point, we can agree....

 

[coldstream]

Quote: Originally Posted by BaalsTears

Investment capital is required to create jobs. Because of globalized capital markets it is now possible for capital to go anywhere in the world looking for security, predictability and rate of return. That is simply the truth.
​

This is one of the great fictions on Monetarism, the blood brother of Free Trade. It denies that the nation state, through credit and monetary policy, can by its own devices create adequate levels of investment capital at affordable rates, which along with tariff and trade policy, can create Full Employment polices . By placing the sources of capital into the hands of the global investment organism, we have seen the workplaces of the world degenerate into places of increasing exploitation of workers, subsistence wages, no benefits or pensions, and NO security. The global free trade/monetarist paradigm is leading us to world economic collapse.

 

[Cannuck]

The American left is very harsh and very aggressive. That reduces predicatability.

LOL....As opposed to the American right which is so soft and wishy washy!

 

[BaalsTears]

This is one of the great fictions on Monetarism, the blood brother of Free Trade. It denies that the nation state, through credit and monetary policy, can by its own devices create adequate levels of investment capital at affordable rates, which along with tariff and trade policy, can create Full Employment polices . By placing the sources of capital into the hands of the global investment organism, we have seen the workplaces of the world degenerate into places of increasing exploitation of workers, subsistence wages, no benefits or pensions, and NO security. The global free trade/monetarist paradigm is leading us to world economic collapse.

Good luck reinventing the world.

LOL....As opposed to the American right which is so soft and wishy washy!

The rigid doctrinaire overreaching by the American left summoned American conservatism back from the grave and removed the possibility of compromise.

 

[Cannuck]

The rigid doctrinaire overreaching by the American left summoned American conservatism back from the grave and removed the possibility of compromise.

Chicken, meet the egg.

 

[BaalsTears]

Chicken, meet the egg.

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