Egypt's future - will Israel play spoiler

[taxslave]

right now israel is run by a bunch of extremist war criminals, just like the us was three years ago. Hopefully common sense will prevail in the next israeli election.

and the muslim theocracies that surround them ae not??

 

[earth_as_one]

I wish you would post a link to your source Colpy.
Canadian trapped in Iran’s terror - The Globe and Mail

I never knew anything about this until your post. Thank you for enlightening me.

(BTW, I did mention the Iran's post revolution purges in the 1980's as crimes against humanity in my previous post. RE: Colpy "And why does Iran get instantly forgiven for the thousands upon thousands of political/religious executions of the 1980s?????")

Iran has the highest per capita execution rate in the world, a medieval criminal justice system and a tyrannical government. When you break Iranian laws, you can expect harsh treatment.

According to the Iranians they executed "dozens" of people and the majority were convicted of capital crimes related to drug smuggling/trafficking.
Iran hangs dozens of drug peddlers | Deccan Chronicle | 2011-01-30

However at least three executions appear to be politically motivated. Adultery is a capital crime in Iran, however its application seems reserved mostly for women.

As someone who opposes the death penalty, I agree with condemning Iran over these executions including the ones involving drug trafficking.

I find many western news sources to be about as unreliable regarding what goes on in Iran as Iranian sources.

Amnesty International has nothing on this:
Iran | Amnesty International
(that means little as they often take months to make a report)

I did find this reliable source:

Human Rights Watch:
Iran: Deepening Crisis on Rights | Human Rights Watch

The Iranian government's high rate of executions and targeting of rights defenders, particularly lawyers, in 2010 and early 2011 highlights a deepening of the human rights crisis that gripped the country following the disputed June 2009 presidential election, Human Rights Watch said in issuing its World Report 2011 Iran chapter. According to Iranian media reports, authorities have executed at least 73 prisoners - an average of almost three prisoners per day - since January 1, 2011.

The 649-page report, the organization's 21st annual review of human rights practices around the globe, summarizes major human rights issues in more than 90 countries worldwide. In Iran, since November 2009 authorities have executed at least 13 people on the vague charge of moharebeh, or "enmity against God," following flawed trials in revolutionary courts. The government also harassed, arrested, detained, and convicted several lawyers in 2010 for their work defending the rights of others. At the same time, scores of civil society activists have spoken out against the government crackdown despite facing harsh consequences.


"The noose has tightened, in some cases literally, around the necks of activists in Iran," said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. "The government's crackdown has gone beyond silencing post-election demonstrators and is now a broad-based campaign to neutralize Iran's vibrant civil society and consolidate power."


The executions and mounting pressures against lawyers took place amid a broad crackdown following the election, and resulted in the killing of dozens of demonstrators by security forces and the detention of thousands of political opposition members and civil society activists. In early 2010 security forces announced that they had arrested more than 6,000 people in the months following the June 12, 2009 election. Those arrested included demonstrators, lawyers, rights defenders, journalists, students, and opposition leaders, some of whom remain in prison without charge. Iran's revolutionary courts have issued harsh sentences, in some cases based on forced confessions, against dozens convicted of various national security-related crimes....

I suspect that some sort of purge is going on right now as Iran's government is trying to nip an Egypt like protest and popular revolution in the bud.


Since many of the executed appear to be convicted on false charges, were tortured before their show trials and summary execution, yes I would agree that this recent event has the scale to cross the line and meet the definition of a crime against humanity.

BTW, I would hope that the Canadian government uses every diplomatic means to secure the release of Saeed Malekpour, who is only guilty of criticizing Iran. given the Canadian government's unshakable support of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity, I doubt we have much leverage.


Given your refusal to criticize Israel blocking humanitarian aid to 1.5 million innocent civilians as a crime against humanity, a long list of Israeli war crimes and your support for the death penalty, why would you consider executing 73-121 people as a "crime against humanity"?

and the muslim theocracies that surround them ae not??

Israel shares borders with Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. Which one of these countries is more of a theocracy than Israel?

theocracy

1. a form of government in which god or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler, the God's or deity's laws being interpreted by the ecclesiastical authorities.

2. a system of government by priests claiming a divine commission.

3. a commonwealth or state under such a form or system of government.

IMO, the only governments which meet the definition of a true theocracy are:

The Vatican
Iran

Neither of which borders Israel

 

[Colpy]

I wish you would post a link to your source Colpy.
Canadian trapped in Iran’s terror - The Globe and Mail

I never knew anything about this until your post. Thank you for enlightening me.

Iran has the highest per capita execution rate in the world, a medieval criminal justice system and a tyrannical government. When you break Iranian laws, you can expect harsh treatment.

According to the Iranians they executed "dozens" of people and the majority were convicted of capital crimes related to drug smuggling/trafficking.
Iran hangs dozens of drug peddlers | Deccan Chronicle | 2011-01-30

However at least three executions appear to be politically motivated. Adultery is a capital crime in Iran, however its application seems reserved mostly for women.

As someone who opposes the death penalty, I agree with condemning Iran over these executions including the ones involving drug trafficking.

I find many western news sources to be about as unreliable regarding what goes on in Iran as Iranian sources.

Amnesty International has nothing on this:
Iran | Amnesty International
(that means little as they often take months to make a report)

I did find this reliable source:

Human Rights Watch:
Iran: Deepening Crisis on Rights | Human Rights Watch

I suspect that some sort of purge is going on right now as Iran's government is trying to nip an Egypt like protest and popular revolution in the bud.


Since many of the executed appear to be convicted on false charges, were tortured before their show trials and summary execution, yes I would agree that this recent event has the scale to cross the line and meet the definition of a crime against humanity.

BTW, I would hope that the Canadian government uses every diplomatic means to secure the release of Saeed Malekpour, who is only guilty of criticizing Iran. given the Canadian government's unshakable support of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity, I doubt we have much leverage.


Given your refusal to criticize Israel blocking humanitarian aid to 1.5 million innocent civilians as a crime against humanity, a long list of Israeli war crimes and your support for the death penalty, why would you consider executing 73-121 people as a "crime against humanity"?



Israel shares borders with Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. Which one of these countries is more of a theocracy than Israel?

theocracy

1. a form of government in which god or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler, the God's or deity's laws being interpreted by the ecclesiastical authorities.

2. a system of government by priests claiming a divine commission.

3. a commonwealth or state under such a form or system of government.

IMO, the only governments which meet the definition of a true theocracy are:

The Vatican
Iran

Neither of which borders Israel

Sorry, I thought I had posted the link.

Israel is not a theocracy........although it does offer some benefits to Jews, and recognizes itself as "the Jewish State".

Israel neither starves, nor denies humanitarian aid to Gaza....even though it is under NO ethical obligation to provide or allow either, as the rulers of Gaza are in armed conflict with them.

 

[lone wolf]

Dogs can sort out their differences. Maybe they should give lessons.

 

[earth_as_one]

An occupying power is obliged to follow the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention, which protects civilians during war. In 1979, the UN Security Council concluded that the Fourth Convention did apply in the territories captured by Israel in 1967. Therefore the 1977 additional protocols to the Fourth Convention, which protect civilian populations in time of conflicts that fall short of war, applies to Israel's control of Gaza's borders.

Collective measures that do not sufficiently distinguish between civilian and military violate Article 48 of the additional protocol "... The Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objective."

Do you honestly believe that restricting humanitarian food and medical aid does not adversely affect 1.5 million Gaza civilians and only affects the belligerents?

I have no problems with Israel defending themselves or attacking belligerents, but this heinous crime against humanity in its 4th year deliberately causes 1.5 million civilians to suffer famine and plague like conditions. What Israel does to Gaza civilians rivals the most egregious crimes carried out at the height of apartheid by the South African regime, comes close to the horrors visited on Sarajevo by the Bosnian Serbs and has disturbing echoes of the Nazi ghettos of Lodz and Warsaw.

BTW Colpy, did you also support Burma's leaders when they blocked humanitarian aid?

Myanmar cyclone: Burma junta may be prosecuted over aid block
Burma's ruling generals could be threatened with prosecution for crimes against humanity as a last resort to pressure them to allow an international relief operation to reach desperate cyclone survivors
Myanmar cyclone: Gordon Brown says Burma is guilty of inhuman action - Telegraph

 

[Colpy]

An occupying power is obliged to follow the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention, which protects civilians during war. In 1979, the UN Security Council concluded that the Fourth Convention did apply in the territories captured by Israel in 1967. Therefore the 1977 additional protocols to the Fourth Convention, which protect civilian populations in time of conflicts that fall short of war, applies to Israel's control of Gaza's borders.

Collective measures that do not sufficiently distinguish between civilian and military violate Article 48 of the additional protocol "... The Parties to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants and between civilian objects and military objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against military objective."

Do you honestly believe that restricting humanitarian food and medical aid does not adversely affect 1.5 million Gaza civilians and only affects the belligerents?

I have no problems with Israel defending themselves or attacking belligerents, but this heinous crime against humanity in its 4th year deliberately causes 1.5 million civilians to suffer famine and plague like conditions. What Israel does to Gaza civilians rivals the most egregious crimes carried out at the height of apartheid by the South African regime, comes close to the horrors visited on Sarajevo by the Bosnian Serbs and has disturbing echoes of the Nazi ghettos of Lodz and Warsaw.

Israel does not occupy Gaza........

As we have pointed out, Israel is successful at killing combatants in Gaza with a non-combatant death toll one tenth that expected in modern war.

There is no famine and no plague in Gaza.......the population is GROWING by leaps and bounds.

To compare Israeli actions at Gaza to actions of the Nazis is completely outrageous, and insult to the intelligence of any decent, thinking human being.

 

[lone wolf]

Dunno ... it's just something about walls, ghettos and glib presentation

 

[earth_as_one]

Call it what you want.

Israel attempts to control everything entering and leaving Gaza. Since June 2007, Israel has interfered with the delivery of international humanitarian food and medical aid to the point where 70% of Gazans are "food insecure", and tens of thousands of children are malnourished. During Operation Cast Lead, the IDF deliberately destroyed farms, food production facilities, food processing plants, water purification plants, water towers and sewage treatment plants without any military justification. Their actions amount to collective punishment of a civilian population.


200-foot wide Star of David Israeli soldiers carved a into Palestinian farmland in Gaza with their tanks. (Photo: UNOSAT)

Israel's blockade of Gaza is a clear violation of international humanitarian law, the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has said

The ICRC, a traditionally neutral organisation, paints a bleak picture of conditions in Gaza: hospitals short of equipment, power cuts lasting hours each day, drinking water unfit for consumption.

"The whole of Gaza's civilian population is being punished for acts for which they bear no responsibility. The closure therefore constitutes a collective punishment imposed in clear violation of Israel's obligations under international humanitarian law," the agency said in the statement.

BBC News - ICRC says Israel's Gaza blockade breaks law

...In January 2007, Gaza received more than 10,000 truckloads of goods each month; by January 2009, that number was down to roughly 3,000
. A 2008 report from the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) found that 70 per cent of Gaza's population suffered from "food insecurity." As Al Jazeera's Sherine Tadros reported last week, the Israeli authorities allow little meat and fresh produce into Gaza, leading to widespread malnutrition in the territory....


...Amnesty concluded that four out of five Gazans - 80 per cent of the population -depend on external aid to survive...

Gaza's real humanitarian crisis - Focus - Al Jazeera English

A recent report published in the Lancet medical journal showed that “the trend for stunting among Palestinian children is increasing, and that there is a concern about the long-term effects.” The report shows that there are pockets in northern Gaza where the level of stunted growth among children reaches thirty percent. Stunting, which is caused by chronic malnutrition and affecting cognitive development and physical health, poses a serious threat to normal childhood development and may cause severe health problems for children in the future.

Gaza's Stunted Growth Problem - NYTimes.com

People who side with Israel regarding their collective punishment of 1.5 million Gazans are siding with cruelty and injustice against fundamental human rights.
SHAME ON YOU!

 

[Machjo]

AS long as the muslim nations around Israel continue to be controlled by theocratic war mongers Israel will continue to need help from the rest of the free world.

Your obvious contempt for Arabs aside, I will agree with you to the point of defending Israel's right to exist within its pre-1967 border as recognized in international law. This does not include us defending Israeli-occupied lands that do not belong to it.

 

[petros]

Israel does not occupy Gaza........

As we have pointed out, Israel is successful at killing combatants in Gaza with a non-combatant death toll one tenth that expected in modern war.

There is no famine and no plague in Gaza.......the population is GROWING by leaps and bounds.

To compare Israeli actions at Gaza to actions of the Nazis is completely outrageous, and insult to the intelligence of any decent, thinking human being.

And they aren't in the West Bank either huh?

 

[CDNBear]

Since many of the executed appear to be convicted on false charges, were tortured before their show trials and summary execution, yes I would agree that this recent event has the scale to cross the line and meet the definition of a crime against humanity.

I love this one. It "appears", "has the scale to cross the line and meet the definition"?

But you don't actually come right out and say it does, do you.

Again, proving to everyone that can read, that you're very careful not to demonize and find those you support, guilty. But the Joos aren't afforded the same thing.

Awesome!

Dogs can sort out their differences. Maybe they should give lessons.

Really? The last time I watched two dogs "sort out their differences", one went to the vet, where it died.

Or is that what you are getting at?

Call it what you want.

Israel attempts to control everything entering and leaving Gaza. Since June 2007, Israel has interfered with the delivery of international humanitarian food and medical aid to the point where 70% of Gazans are "food insecure", and tens of thousands of children are malnourished. During Operation Cast Lead, the IDF deliberately destroyed farms, food production facilities, food processing plants, water purification plants, water towers and sewage treatment plants without any military justification. Their actions amount to collective punishment of a civilian population.

And why haven't you explained to me why this starving country, is about to export food?

People who side with Israel regarding their collective punishment of 1.5 million Gazans are siding with cruelty and injustice against fundamental human rights.

And people who defend, fail to outright condemn, neo Nazi groups, are they defacto supporters.

SHAME ON YOU!

Quite!

And they aren't in the West Bank either huh?

They are. And the West Bank is prospering. Go figure.

 

[captain morgan]

But Captain, they're not Joos, or supporters of Joos. So they get a pass.

Opps... My bad.

I forgot that part and mistakenly employed a kinda broad/generalized definition of 'human rights' should be applied to the issue. Clearly, the only definition of human rights that truly counts is the one provided by EAO on a selective basis.

I just love this quote:

"Israel attempts to control everything entering and leaving Gaza. Since June 2007, Israel has interfered with the delivery of international humanitarian food and medical aid to the point where 70% of Gazans are "food insecure", and tens of thousands of children are malnourished."

... But the identical Egyptian blockade is not even mentioned in the issue... It goes to support your statement that buddy is extremely selective in what they want to see.

 

[CDNBear]

Opps... My bad.

I forgot that part and mistakenly employed a kinda broad/generalized definition of 'human rights' should be applied to the issue. Clearly, the only definition of human rights that truly counts is the one provided by EAO on a selective basis.

I just love this quote:

"Israel attempts to control everything entering and leaving Gaza. Since June 2007, Israel has interfered with the delivery of international humanitarian food and medical aid to the point where 70% of Gazans are "food insecure", and tens of thousands of children are malnourished."

... But the identical Egyptian blockade is not even mentioned in the issue... It goes to support your statement that buddy is extremely selective in what they want to see.

Extremely is putting it lightly.

I've asked the question at least a dozen times now, and still I await an answer for EAO, Mhz or cubby. As to why a country that is starving to death, suffering malnutrition, is about to export food stuffs?

 

[captain morgan]

The answer is simple: The Palestinians need electric wheel chairs more desperately than food.

 

[Kreskin]

Better the devil you know for some people. Although I can't bring myself to support that in this case. I can see why Israel would. How their moral relativism would allow them to do so.

You said "every country". Can you expand on that a little? I realize it was an exaggeration for effect, but you obviously feel that there are other countries, whose future is being directed by Israeli interests.

Quite often in cases like this the measure of success is determined by how convenient it all fits into Israel's interests. The reason Eqypt has lived the past 30 years under emergency measures by one dictator is due to the global community feeling just that; he's a dictator but he's our dictator who won't attack Israel. It's that kind of mentality that potentially puts everyone on the wrong side of the eventual and inevitable revolution.

On a note unrelated to the quote, I wonder how much the impetus to drive this revolution was born through their capacity to watch the 2008 American Presidential election. I'm not saying this to credit Obama, but the world saw a young man defy almost all odds in a quest to become an elected President running on the platform of change. Perhaps Bill Gates gets more credit than any politician. People in countries like Tunisia and Egypt, and Iran, saw a remarkable political process. Not that it was any more democratic than the previous elections, but for many it was likely the first time they have witnessed such a process.

 

[CDNBear]

Quite often in cases like this the measure of success is determined by how convenient it all fits into Israel's interests. The reason Eqypt has lived the past 30 years under emergency measures by one dictator is due to the global community feeling just that; he's a dictator but he's our dictator who won't attack Israel. It's that kind of mentality that potentially puts everyone on the wrong side of the eventual and inevitable revolution.

I can't argue with that.

On a note unrelated to the quote, I wonder how much the impetus to drive this revolution was born through their capacity to watch the 2008 American Presidential election. I'm not saying this to credit Obama, but the world saw a young man defy almost all odds in a quest to become an elected President running on the platform of change. Perhaps Bill Gates gets more credit than any politician. People in countries like Tunisia and Egypt, and Iran, saw a remarkable political process. Not that it was any more democratic than the previous elections, but for many it was likely the first time they have witnessed such a process.

Food for thought. But you do realize that there are people crediting Bush eh?

 

[Kreskin]

Perhaps some will, however this revolution was not the kind that killed several tens of thousands of people. The 2008 election demonstrated how the Will of the people alone, without death and destruction, can overcome just about anything.

 

[CDNBear]

Perhaps some will, however this revolution was not the kind that killed several tens of thousands of people.

Too true dude.

The 2008 election demonstrated how the Will of the people alone, without death and destruction, can overcome just about anything.

I know this is off topic and a little C/T nutterish, but I'm not so sure the US's voting system is all that reliable.

Check out "Black Box Voting" by HBO. Kind of scary stuff. Prompted me to send several emails to Elections Canada, re: electronic voting.

 

[Kreskin]

When I have a chance I'll check it out. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[lone wolf]

Really? The last time I watched two dogs "sort out their differences", one went to the vet, where it died.

Or is that what you are getting at?

Pretty much. I note you watched and didn't mention meddle. Most dogs are smart enough to realize when ass is getting kicked and leave it alone - at high speed if necessary.