AGW Denial, The Greatest Scam in History?
- Thread starter Avro
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Food production, distribution, storage, processing and consumption is by far the leader in alleged GHGs. You could put everyone strictly on foot, bicycles, sailboats and not even come close to making a dent in alleged numbers required to achieve the effect necesary for geo-engineering neutrality.
You can't reduce food production without reducing population.
In the past 4 months wheat has doubled in price.....LET THE GAMES BEGIN!
Always focused on what man can't do.
Sad.
You are of topic in this thread petros, move it to "What to do about Global warming", the goal post is firm there.
Still in denial are ya?
I could use some advice. Where should we go on holidays this winter? We have a cheque for $13,000 in carbon credits to blow on airfare. Any suggestions?
I get that, still no big loss in trying.
A lot of the increase in food prices has to do with the increase in demand for biofuels.
The whole global socio-economic model needs to be revamped, it may be that we won't be able to find a way to squeeze close to 7 billion people into the carrying capacity of the planet, but we should at least try instead of pretending everything is just fine as many seem to be trying to do.
It means learning to live with less in the short term, but in the long term, unlocking virtually unlimited sources of energy such as solar, geothermal and even nuclear if Generation IV reactors are developed will be revolutionary in a way the industrial revolution never truly was.
More likely we'd burn all the fossil fuels available and kill off all life on the planet.
The Cobalt Kid is right, the increase demand for biofuels is causing the increase in prices for food stuffs. This living on less is great for some nations, but until that happens there will be wars and famine throughout the world. The so called have-not nations want what we now have and with this economic crisis going on, I do not se that happening anytime soon. We have, they want, not going to happen.
At producing food...If you think it's not possible to reduce food production without reducing population, then you must think that there are no gains to be made in efficiency. As an example, how many chickens typically die during transportation from their factory barns to the slaughter house? How much food is wasted in a grocery store, thrown out as it spoils before it can be sold?
Good post Ton. Typically about 10% of a loaf of bread is wasted. How many people eat the crusts (the best part of the loaf)? How many people buy poultry and throw the giblets in the garbage? How many people discard cheese because there's a little green mold (perfectly edible) growing on it? :lol:
Ever heard of cat and dog food? What do sloppy consumers have to do with international production and land useage?
When the rest of the people in the world get refrigerators and factory chicken farms are built with cold storage will they sell deads for cat food too?
Pour yourself a coffee ell me how anyone can do better than seed drills, GPS EZ Steer, contour radar, Round-Up Ready seed/fert/herbicide and a harvester that puts 99% of the seeds in the hopper?
How many oxen does it take to pull one of these?
That's the small one at 30ft spread. The bigger ones go up to 43ft.
How many more oxen to pull the even more efficient 43 footer?
Treehugger.com says:
Carbon Foot Print: The EPA estimated in 2007 that agriculture accounts for 18% of the U.S. carbon footprint. However, the number is probably closer to 25-30% as they failed to include the “manufacture and use of pesticides and fertilizers, fuel and oil for tractors, equipment, trucking and shipping, electricity for lighting, cooling, and heating, and emissions of carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide and other green house gases” and “still doesn't include a large portion of the fuel, the synthetic nitrogen fertilizer, some of the nitrous oxide, all of the CFCs and bromines, and most of the transport” and methane emissions. That's a huge (and rather misleading) oversight.
Fertilizer Pollution/Dead Zones: Factory farming deposits high amounts of nitrogen, phosphorous, and other fertilizers, which end up in drinking water, and is also linked to decreasing grassland biodiversity. This also creates “dead zones” of oxygen-poor ocean zones, which negatively impact marine life. Last year, more than 400 dead zones were identified worldwide.
Pesticides in Water: According to Allen’s research, arsenic and lead have been used on crops since the late 1800s. However, many of the federal and state agencies don’t keep track of the amounts being used. Over 30 million Americans are drinking water contaminated with chemicals related to DDT, which has been linked to cancer and birth defects.
Confinement Animals/Excess Antibiotics and Hormones: Allen observes that “overuse of hormones and antibiotics has left us with antibiotic resistant meat, large quantities of antibiotics in rivers and drinking water, and even antibiotic resistant pork farmers and consumers.”
One of Allen’s most disturbing statements is the fact that California is the only state that has gathered pesticide use data in the U.S., though New York recently passed the same law. This lack of data is a huge obstacle to better regulation. He goes on to say:
[..] We are living in a very polluted and dangerous food world, partly because of the unregulated excesses of U.S. industrial farming. If we are going to bring down our high rates of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and birth defects we have to change our food choices and how that food is raised. Besides creating profound health and safety problems, industrial farming is a huge unregulated contributor to global warming and an enormous user of energy. We must regulate and significantly reduce the U.S. farm use of fuels, pesticides, and fertilizer. These are not choices! These are necessities! If we are going to seriously tackle climate change and fix our health system, we have to change our form of agriculture.
(I didn't bold that)
So how do we change our agricultural practises AND get the production rates we currently do without using commie style farm techniques while keeping the seed owners (Monsanto, Bayer, Agentis, Cargill etc) happy?
(I didn't bold that)
So how do we change our agricultural practises AND get the production rates we currently do without using commie style farm techniques while keeping the seed owners (Monsanto, Bayer, Agentis, Cargill etc) happy?
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Yeah, the food that doesn't meet grade for human consumption for reasons as stupid as aesthetics.
They are part of the same chain...
Probably.
How about a harvester that puts 99.5% of seeds in the hopper. Do the math, how many tonnes of food is that for cereal grains worldwide?
You said that we can't produce less food without sacrificing population, which simply isn't true. It's pessimism that ignores work that is actually being done to address these inefficiencies.
Here's just two statistics for you to chew on:
-50% of the food produced in the US is wasted, which compares to 20 to 40% in the developing nations. So to go back to your point about technology and doing better, the so called developing nations have less waste, with less technology. Maybe it has more to do with cropping systems than the technology.
-Over 30M tonnes of fish are discarded as by-catch every year. I've seen it as a fishery observer. Authorities like DFO don't actually manage eco-systems, they manage the market, and that is why they fail. Of the 100M tonnes of wild capture fishery, 30% of landings will be thrown back into the water, to die.
Looks like an efficient machine. How does that negate what Tonnington said about utilizing food so there is less waste?
Fricken criminal. 8O These people rate right along with those who shoot big game for the head and antlers.
Gee all this abundance. If we eliminate waste will that stop the deaths of 40,000 a day at current rates? How do you plan on getting 400M North Americans to change their ways without strict social control within a the democratic structure? What would that do to the consumer driven Nor Am marketplace?
Not by itself. There's still the problem of unequal distribution of food.
Education and peer pressure might work.
Change it. Change is a good thing sometimes, you know.
