Tories To Waste Billons On New Fighter Jets

[CDNBear]

I wonder if anybody is interested in the fact that Martin brokered this deal...

http://www.ipb.org/Canada%27s%20Alarming%20Rise%20in%20Military%20Spending.pdf

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-35-program.htm

And article from October of 2005, when Martin hopped on this project, with the provision of Canada's purchase.

Can all that let out the collective hue and cry about the "dark side" and their wayward spending, apologize now?

True. I even suggested partly as a lark that Canada should tell those Tamil Tigers that they can stay if they settle in the arctic, and CDNBear hated the idea so much that I started thinking it might actually be a valid notion (CDNBear is one of those people where the more he hates you, the more you know you're on the right track).

Actually, I thought it was absolutely the most absurd thing I've read in here, in a while. But coming from someone that use terms like "The Dark side" to refer to the present Primie Minister. It really wasn't all that surprising. Nor is your failed and transparent attempts at back peddling out of it.

What part of...

Removed Blatant Trolling.....QUIT IT!!!

Are you failing to grasp?

And btw, I don't hate anybody. So I guess you've failed, yet again. But please, by all means, do not heed Ron's requests and warnings. The entertainment factor of a child masquerading as an adult, is fresh breath of comedic entertainment around here.

Thankfully, you're very much like SJP. Surprisingly so.

It's interesting how you know that. A lot of people don't.

Like yourself, since you've made Russia a principal Boogiemen in the bulk of your posts on the subject.

 

[Colpy]

CBC News - Canada - Russia denies plane approached Canadian airspace

20 times in two years.

I guess Omicron intends to intercept these with balloons.

If we wish to maintain sovereignty, intercepters are a necessity. That means fighters, good ones.

 

[CDNBear]

CBC News - Canada - Russia denies plane approached Canadian airspace

20 times in two years.

I guess Omicron intends to intercept these with balloons.

No, subs and hovercraft.

If we wish to maintain sovereignty, intercepters are a necessity. That means fighters, good ones.

Shush, there's no room for making sense in this bash Harpo and company thread.

 

[Omicron]

CBC News - Canada - Russia denies plane approached Canadian airspace

20 times in two years.

[...]

If we wish to maintain sovereignty, intercepters are a necessity. That means fighters, good ones.

Yeah, which F-35s are *not*.

F-35s are big giant fat bloated fighter-bombers.

You can't imagine how the MIG fighters would dance around the US fighter-bombers in Vietnam. When the MIGs came in, the only option for the fighter-bombers was to crank the throttle and run. (The fighter-bombers had better top-speed than the fighters.)

 

[CDNBear]

Yeah, which F-35s are *not*.

At you...

And for that laugh out load moment, you get a thumbs up!!! And a thank you. Do you ever get tired of looking like a moron?


http://f-35.ca/2010/lockheed-martin-f-35-stovl-variant-flies-supersonic/

F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) Lightning II Program

F-35s are big giant fat bloated fighter-bombers.

Nice attempted edit, back peddle. But you're still an idiot.

You should have seen how the MIG fighters would dance around the US fighter-bombers in Vietnam. When the MIGs came in, the only option for the fighter-bombers was to crank the throttle and run.

Didn't you just say that we aren't going to face off against Russia?

Maybe you can tell us all about that, since you know so much...err, claim to know so much. I mean, you've already told us all, how superior the Avro was and how it was just awesome for this role.

So what's changed between that post and this one? Your moving of goal posts and about face switch backs are reminiscent of our good old SJP.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Really....Guys....& you know whom I'm referring to...if you can't play well
together...find different playmates. This sidetracks every Thread you
both enter into, and it's growing old & tired fast.

If you can't (either or both of you) debate the contents of each others posts
without personally insulting each other, then be prepared to have your
posts disappear from sight.

 

[CDNBear]

Really....Guys....& you know whom I'm referring to...if you can't play well
together...find different playmates. This sidetracks every Thread you
both enter into, and it's growing old & tired fast.

If you can't (either or both of you) debate the contents of each others posts
without personally insulting each other, then be prepared to have your
posts disappear from sight.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

 

[Colpy]

Yeah, which F-35s are *not*.

F-35s are big giant fat bloated fighter-bombers.

You can't imagine how the MIG fighters would dance around the US fighter-bombers in Vietnam. When the MIGs came in, the only option for the fighter-bombers was to crank the throttle and run. (The fighter-bombers had better top-speed than the fighters.)

Excuse me?

The main fighter-bomber of the Vietnam War was the F-4 Phantom.........which completely and absolutely outclassed the Russian Mig 21.

but don't take my word for it.....

The Phantom is a large fighter with a top speed of over Mach 2. It can carry over 18,000 pounds (8,400 kg) of weapons on nine external hardpoints, including air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles, and various bombs. The F-4, like other interceptors of its time, was designed without an internal cannon, but later models incorporated a cannon. Beginning in 1959, it set 15 world records,[4]including an absolute speed record, and an absolute altitude record .[5]

(from Wikipedia)

 

[Ron in Regina]

Flattery will get you nowhere.

Just fair warning(s). Govern yourselves accordingly.

 

[CDNBear]

Excuse me?

The main fighter-bomber of the Vietnam War was the F-4 Phantom.........which completely and absolutely outclassed the Russian Mig 21.

but don't take my word for it.....

(from Wikipedia)

Why don't you let people dig a bigger hole before you push them in?

I was waiting to see if he bit at the apple, so we could hear about his American contacts in the USAF, before I force fed him reality.

Just fair warning(s). Govern yourselves accordingly.

I'd love to, but someone keeps smearing fresh bacon grease all over themselves, while poking from the far side of their personal lil "Happy place"...seems childish and a blatant cry for my attention. So I simply obliged.

 

[Johnnny]

Someone once told me that they knew an American Marine and that the person who knew the marine could make someone dissapear pretty quickly :lol:... Watch out if omnicron knows someone in the USAF they might get you

 

[lone wolf]

Note to self: Leave laser pencil in the desk....

 

[Kakato]

Omnicron,maybe you missed it but only the top layer of permafrost will even get soft during the summer months,thats why they used quads to patrol(rangers) and unless you have any idea of how deep permarost go's then commenting on it all melting makes you look foolish.

For an example,I spent every day for 7 weeks scraping permafrost to bedrock for a fuel tank farm to be built,it took 7 straight weeks of not seeing my tracks and scraping about an inch a day was about all I could get,we used backhoes and even blasted the stuff to move it,this isnt normal ice your talking about,it's called permafrost for a reason.
No need for hovercraft when a few guys on quads or an otter can achieve the same results.
At best the top few inchs melt in the short summer,thats not enough melted mud to get anything stuck and it's mainly silt which wont get you stuck anyways.The base is allways solid,this isnt mud like you see in the south.

This is my album from the Arctic,theres a few pics of melted permafrost here.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/members/kakato-albums-arctic-smiles.html

 

[EagleSmack]

Yeah, which F-35s are *not*.

F-35s are big giant fat bloated fighter-bombers.

You can't imagine how the MIG fighters would dance around the US fighter-bombers in Vietnam. When the MIGs came in, the only option for the fighter-bombers was to crank the throttle and run. (The fighter-bombers had better top-speed than the fighters.)

More silliness. F-4's pretty much tooled the MIGs over Vietnam.

The biggest threat to heavy bombers and fixed wing aircraft were SAMs

 

[Omicron]

Omnicron,maybe you missed it but only the top layer of permafrost will even get soft during the summer months,thats why they used quads to patrol(rangers) and unless you have any idea of how deep permarost go's then commenting on it all melting makes you look foolish.

For an example,I spent every day for 7 weeks scraping permafrost to bedrock for a fuel tank farm to be built,it took 7 straight weeks of not seeing my tracks and scraping about an inch a day was about all I could get,we used backhoes and even blasted the stuff to move it,this isnt normal ice your talking about,it's called permafrost for a reason.

No need for hovercraft when a few guys on quads or an otter can achieve the same results.
At best the top few inchs melt in the short summer,thats not enough melted mud to get anything stuck and it's mainly silt which wont get you stuck anyways.The base is allways solid,this isnt mud like you see in the south.

This is my album from the Arctic,theres a few pics of melted permafrost here.
Canadian Content Forums - Kakato's Album: Arctic smiles

I know how permafrost works now, but I've been reading some of the global warming scenario reports (from the US military, by the way... after scientists, they're the only ones with the mentality capable to looking at it seriously it seems) and one of the things they're seeing is that after the ice-cap disappears, the temperature in the north could actually go up enough for that permafrost to start permanently melting, in which case it all becomes a big giant marshland bubbling methane into the atmosphere.

What would you use to patrol insanely vast areas of marshland?

 

[EagleSmack]

I realize that as an American you would be happy to see Canada buy more useless equipment from the USA. However, events of the last four or five decades have shown that fighter aircraft are the least useful part of the Canadian military.

Well hey, Canada helped develop it and have already made investments in the F-35 program.

"In modern common usage, the terms Zeppelin, dirigible and airship are used interchangeably for any type of rigid airship, with the term blimp alone used to describe non-rigid airships. Although the blimp also qualifies as a "dirigible", the term is seldom used with blimps. In modern technical usage, airship is the term used for all aircraft of this type, with Zeppelin referring only to aircraft of that manufacture, and blimp referring only to non-rigid airships."

BTW I have no idea what PWNED means so that last comment was wasted.

I have already pointed out the proper definition of a dirigible and a blimp, albeit lacks a rigid structure is a dirigible. Sorry.

 

[lone wolf]

Hell, we'll even have methane to burn for hot air - even if it should be helium for lift

 

[Kakato]

I know how permafrost works now, but I've been reading some of the global warming scenario reports (from the US military, by the way... after scientists, they're the only ones with the mentality capable to looking at it seriously it seems) and one of the things they're seeing is that after the ice-cap disappears, the temperature in the north could actually go up enough for that permafrost to start permanently melting, in which case it all becomes a big giant marshland bubbling methane into the atmosphere.

What would you use to patrol insanely vast areas of marshland?

When it becomes marshland we'll deal with it and for your information methane is bubbling up all over the world anywhere there is decomposing organics,the arctic is the least of anyones worrys as it would take thousands of years for any permafrost to melt to even come close to the methane seepage anywhere else on earth.

I met lots of scientists up north milking grants,most never went farther then the last town they got to and did their studies from the comfort of a hotel room,most werent let on the choppers or bush planes because they had no Arctic gear.

The military I met also spent the first week trading smokes and their extreme weather gear for furs so they didnt freeze to death,hardly what I would call capable.

I spent over 30 years with dirt and also thought I knew all about it but had to relearn every single thing whent I went to the Arctic,same with snow,things are totally different up there and nothing like down south.

I trust the Innuit rangers,they know how to get along and survive there better then anyone else.

 

[Omicron]

Excuse me?

The main fighter-bomber of the Vietnam War was the F-4 Phantom.........which completely and absolutely outclassed the Russian Mig 21.

The F-4 wasn't really a fighter-bomber, it was more a large fighter; I was talking more about fighter-bombers like the F-100s.

Hmm... you know... sometimes I think that if Harpie really couldn't resist the conservative urge to spend billions on killing instead of conserving, I bet he could have ordered some F-22s, which are the most insanely skookum fighters you can imagine, and I bet he could have got them at a bargain.

The issue is, they're *too* good (and were too expensive to design and get in the air yadda yadda, but at least they're there now).

Specifically, both the Russians and the Chinese have been "lagging" in development of fifth generation fighters, which means there's really no need for the F-22s, such that Obama and congress decided that there wasn't much point in ordering any more of the things, and now people involved in the F-22 program are sulking because those darned Russians and Chinese won't keep up on their fifth-gen fighter programs.

It means Harpie could have gone to that division and negotiated a deal for a fleet of F-22s at a bargian just so they could keep their assembly lines running, and Canada would have the best air-to-air fighters in the world patroling up north.

Yeah I know that even the Americans figured F-22s were over-kill for the kind of threat posed by Russia and China today, but since when has common sense been Harpie's mandate? If they'd wanted the best, they should have gone all the way.

When it becomes marshland we'll deal with it [...]

That's what I want to know... How?

 

[EagleSmack]

The F-4 wasn't really a fighter-bomber, it was more a large fighter; I was talking more about fighter-bombers like the F-100s.

The F-4 was a fighter and it had an attack role. In other words it was a fighter bomber. I know the F-4 doesn't fit your argument but that is the fact.


These are F-4's dropping bombs...


YouTube - F-4 Phantom "Snake & Nape" Close Air Support Vietnam