How old did you say you were? I'd have sworn you were 5, maybe 10. (No offence to 5 and 10 year olds of course)Grreeat...in my best Scotish accent!
I have a pool of Arab friends that would like to treat you to a bukaka.
The Afghan war logs
- Thread starter earth_as_one
- Start date
Don`t worry my love. They said `any gap` would do but wondering if you could snap a pic or two to give em a heads-up...you know....what thier facing.
What's the matter...Did your friends get sick of doing that to your girl?
If you believe that not being nice is a just cause for starting a war, then we certainly can justify starting many wars in many places.
You may not like to hear this AnnaG, but the people who rule Saudi Arabia aren't nice people either. Take away their oil money and they aren't that different than the Taliban. Most of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. Right after 9/11, North America's airspace was shutdown to all flights with one notable exception.... Saudi private jets taking Saudis home. I have a hard time understanding that decision, since so many of the hijackers were Saudis living in the US.
A few 9/11 hijackers were also from Yemen and Egypt. Here's a news flash for you AnnaG... These country's leaders aren't very nice either. Should the US and Canada invade these countries too?
FYI, I am well aware the Taliban are "not nice people". Their lack of likeability is hardly a just cause for war and beside the point.
The Taliban had no beef with the US and they condemned 9/11 at the time it happened. I'm fairly certain the Taliban didn't want a war with the US, since they were already fighting a long war with the Northern Alliance. I suspect the Taliban also didn't much care for OBL getting them involved in his fight with the US. Unfortunately OBL was their guest and they could not hand him over without at least some proof he was involved in 9/11. The US may as well demanded the Taliban renounce Islam, get sex changes and march in a gay pride parade. These people would rather fight to the death than hand over a guest for certain execution.
My point was that the US may have been able to avoid a war with the Taliban and still captured the people allegedly responsible for 9/11, if they were a little less arrogant and a little more respectful of Afghan culture and customs.
If war with the Taliban could have avoided, then few Canadians would have died in this senseless war which BTW has little chance of success.
Perhaps you can explain why the Taliban were obligated to go against their strict belief system and betray their "guests", when the Americans had not proven guilt in a court of law. Should people be innocent until proven guilty or is George Bush's word good enough?
International law and diplomacy requires that before one country hands over people to another country for certain execution, that the demand is backed up by some proof of guilt. American demands weren't only arrogant, they were also a strategic blunder. They forced the Taliban to side with their "guests". I suspect that's why OBL was hiding in Afghanistan. He knew that the US would start a war with the Taliban and that it would lead to a Pakistani civil war. He also probably hoped the US government would manipulate American fear and anger into support for an unprovoked war crime against the Iraqi people.
I'd say allowing yourself to be manipulated into an series of unjust, unprovoked wars with people who had nothing with 9/11 is pretty dumb, regardless of how unlikeable the Taliban might be.
Why We Need WikiLeaks
By Justin Raimondo
July 30, 2010
Because "government official" and "liar" are synonyms
The reaction to the WikiLeaks exposure of US war crimes – and Afghan corruption – has been quite interesting: the President responded by averring that there’s nothing new here, that "the fact is these documents do not reveal any issues that have not already informed our public debate on Afghanistan," but the facts are quite different, as anyone who peruses even a small sampling of the documents – such as is offered by the Guardian via a convenient interactive map – can readily ascertain.
After all, the public debate was certainly not informed of the existence of "Task Force 373," an American assassination squad that roams the Afghan countryside wreaking murder and mayhem at Washington’s direction – and that killed seven children, as revealed by the WikiLeaks document dump, in a strike at a supposed terrorist compound. And the public was definitely not informed that US intelligence had picked up evidence of Osama bin Laden’s personal participation in a series of meetings on the Afghan-Pakistan border as late as 2006, as revealed in the documents. Certainly the public debate could have been better informed if Leon Panetta’s interlocutor could have asked him about that when the CIA director, in a recent televised interview, denied having received any new information as to bin Laden’s whereabouts "in years."
What President Obama really meant was that the "public debate" among government insiders in Washington – as opposed to ordinary mortals like ourselves – was not affected by one iota, and in that he is indubitably correct. Just after the "Afghan logs" were published and made available online, Congress renewed funding for the war, and the "mainstream" media took up the presidential line: move along, nothing to see here.
Ensconced in his Washington bubble, where government is the end all and be all of human knowledge and possibilities, our President smugly derides the significance of the biggest security leak in American history, to the hosannas and "amens" of his court pundits.
Outside the Washington Beltway, however, reality is beginning to intrude.
Even as Obama disdains the WikiLeaks revelations as irrelevant due to his glorious "new strategy," that strategy is being undermined by Bradley Manning’s gift to the American people. For if anything pulls the rug out from under the "nation-building" theories of the COINdinista grand strategists behind the Afghan "surge," then surely it is the appalling incompetence and corruption of our Afghan "partners" in the government of President Hamid Karzai. Hundreds of WikiLeaked documents detail gun battles between the Afghan "National" Army, the Border Police, and other Afghan "security forces" (i.e. gangs of armed thugs) whose "training" and daily bread are paid for by you and I. As the Border Police go into "battle" stoned on opium – courtesy of the long-suffering US taxpayers – the much vaunted credibility of our Washington technocrats appears to be crumbling.
Which is why they’re now beginning to bare their fangs, even as they bring Pfc Bradley Manning, the courageous 22-year-old intelligence analyst suspected to leaking the material, back to the states and prepare charges. Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, barked that
"Mr Assange can say whatever he likes about the greater good he thinks he and his source are doing. But the truth is they might already have on their hands the blood of some young soldier or that of an Afghan family."
US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates admits "We don’t know how many more there are out there. It could be a substantial additional number of documents. And we have no idea what their content is, either." As the Guardian reports:
"He dismissed the idea of talking to Assange to learn more about further information that might be released. ‘I’m not sure why we would,’ he said. ‘Do you think he is going to tell us the truth?’"
What Gates fails to mention, however, is that Assange and WikiLeaks sent the leaked material to the White House for them to vet in advance: they had every opportunity to scrub the released files of any information that could endanger, say, the lives of Afghan informants. If anyone’s blood is spilled as a result of the leak, it’s on their hands, not Assange’s or anyone else’s. So the question Mullen asked is turned on its head: Does anyone think the US military and the government that gives Mullen his marching orders is going to tell us the truth?
Of course not. Which is precisely why we need WikiLeaks.
By Justin Raimondo
July 30, 2010
Because "government official" and "liar" are synonyms
The reaction to the WikiLeaks exposure of US war crimes – and Afghan corruption – has been quite interesting: the President responded by averring that there’s nothing new here, that "the fact is these documents do not reveal any issues that have not already informed our public debate on Afghanistan," but the facts are quite different, as anyone who peruses even a small sampling of the documents – such as is offered by the Guardian via a convenient interactive map – can readily ascertain.
After all, the public debate was certainly not informed of the existence of "Task Force 373," an American assassination squad that roams the Afghan countryside wreaking murder and mayhem at Washington’s direction – and that killed seven children, as revealed by the WikiLeaks document dump, in a strike at a supposed terrorist compound. And the public was definitely not informed that US intelligence had picked up evidence of Osama bin Laden’s personal participation in a series of meetings on the Afghan-Pakistan border as late as 2006, as revealed in the documents. Certainly the public debate could have been better informed if Leon Panetta’s interlocutor could have asked him about that when the CIA director, in a recent televised interview, denied having received any new information as to bin Laden’s whereabouts "in years."
What President Obama really meant was that the "public debate" among government insiders in Washington – as opposed to ordinary mortals like ourselves – was not affected by one iota, and in that he is indubitably correct. Just after the "Afghan logs" were published and made available online, Congress renewed funding for the war, and the "mainstream" media took up the presidential line: move along, nothing to see here.
Ensconced in his Washington bubble, where government is the end all and be all of human knowledge and possibilities, our President smugly derides the significance of the biggest security leak in American history, to the hosannas and "amens" of his court pundits.
Outside the Washington Beltway, however, reality is beginning to intrude.
Even as Obama disdains the WikiLeaks revelations as irrelevant due to his glorious "new strategy," that strategy is being undermined by Bradley Manning’s gift to the American people. For if anything pulls the rug out from under the "nation-building" theories of the COINdinista grand strategists behind the Afghan "surge," then surely it is the appalling incompetence and corruption of our Afghan "partners" in the government of President Hamid Karzai. Hundreds of WikiLeaked documents detail gun battles between the Afghan "National" Army, the Border Police, and other Afghan "security forces" (i.e. gangs of armed thugs) whose "training" and daily bread are paid for by you and I. As the Border Police go into "battle" stoned on opium – courtesy of the long-suffering US taxpayers – the much vaunted credibility of our Washington technocrats appears to be crumbling.
Which is why they’re now beginning to bare their fangs, even as they bring Pfc Bradley Manning, the courageous 22-year-old intelligence analyst suspected to leaking the material, back to the states and prepare charges. Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, barked that
"Mr Assange can say whatever he likes about the greater good he thinks he and his source are doing. But the truth is they might already have on their hands the blood of some young soldier or that of an Afghan family."
US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates admits "We don’t know how many more there are out there. It could be a substantial additional number of documents. And we have no idea what their content is, either." As the Guardian reports:
"He dismissed the idea of talking to Assange to learn more about further information that might be released. ‘I’m not sure why we would,’ he said. ‘Do you think he is going to tell us the truth?’"
What Gates fails to mention, however, is that Assange and WikiLeaks sent the leaked material to the White House for them to vet in advance: they had every opportunity to scrub the released files of any information that could endanger, say, the lives of Afghan informants. If anyone’s blood is spilled as a result of the leak, it’s on their hands, not Assange’s or anyone else’s. So the question Mullen asked is turned on its head: Does anyone think the US military and the government that gives Mullen his marching orders is going to tell us the truth?
Of course not. Which is precisely why we need WikiLeaks.
Did I say that? No. Try your spin on someone else. All I was doing was pointing out among all your posts condemning western countries, European countries, etc. that the other guys are not saints. In fact, I'df make a bet that the Taliban, Al Quaeda, etc. kill a lot more civilians than the militaries of Europe and NorthAm. So snivel all you want, it won't change anything.
I'd say snivelling endlessly about the US, Israel, and whoever else to people here is pretty dumb, too. They've read it all before.
You should try to quit those hallucinogens, Jelly.
The Taliban refused to hand over Osama - I do not give a shyte about tradition and neither should you when it comes to mass murder
Osama admitted it along wiht the Bombings in Africa
Does a Murderes confession mean nothing to you - Right - They are fighting the US and it is really a PR War.
Oh I killed my daughter as she dishonored our family and Tribe - To you that would equal Not Guilty - Tradition -
Christian Majority Country - We will now treat all not Christians differently according to our laws - From God - Tradition - And they are infidels that have not found the true path to enlightenment
Chamberlain types are your heroes- Appeasement and inventing excuses for mass murder is your style - So that would equate to no fair model upon which to base your so called morality -
I cannot believe that you are so dumb - i refuse to use stupid as it has 1 more letter in it and i am sure you would be confused.
EAO - You and yours are no better than those that suck up and fall inlove with serial killers in Prision - Man you are fuked up is all I can say.
Bush saying "hand them over" might be good enough for you, but I don't trust Bush. He has a proven track record of telling deliberate lies to start wars. The one in Iraq killed about a million people and makes Bush bigger mass murderer than OBL and on the same scale as Saddam Hussein. Where is your outrage regarding Bush?
If you read my post, you'll see I'm not suggesting appeasing the Taliabn. I was suggesting that we should have tried diplomacy first.
Hanging someone without due process is called a lynching. According to the US justice system, a person is innocent until proven guilty.
I'm saying the Taliban were not our enemy until we attacked them. Our attack on them was unprovoked. If you believe the Taliban attacked us first, then provide a link backing up your claim.
If you read my post, you'll see I'm not suggesting appeasing the Taliabn. I was suggesting that we should have tried diplomacy first.
Hanging someone without due process is called a lynching. According to the US justice system, a person is innocent until proven guilty.
I'm saying the Taliban were not our enemy until we attacked them. Our attack on them was unprovoked. If you believe the Taliban attacked us first, then provide a link backing up your claim.
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Then do a search on how many people - they even wait for children sometime to reach 18 - then they hang them
It seems you only use the US Justice system when it supports the normally BS Position you take,
Apply that to Syria another one that supplies these 2 terror groups - or the Palestinians who name market squares after mass murderers. But then again these are small compared to what Israel does. Now isn't it - Israel is the real Enemy.
Perhaps you should then apply this to Hamas and Hezbollah - But then that would undermine your stance.
Diplomacy with the Taliban
Now consider if you educate yourself that the Taliban knew that Osama was planning attacks - They had him under Guard and surveillance - Wonder why they did that? - Not hard to determine now is it. Does it have t be pseeld ot slow like or can you figure it out by yourself.
They were asked - They refused. Bad decision.
Again they were attacked - and it was not as you say unprovoked - It was sanctioned by every country that is a member of NATO under Article 5 - Read up on it some time as you are so fond of quoting adherence to treaties.
ODS HOME PAGE
What a freaking Dufus you are.
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Bush had a proven track record on 9/12 did he? Interesting. So what you're saying is, you're a psychic and you saw into the future as the armies massed to invade Afghanistan?
All over this forum, start with my thread "Kermit the Bush".
While singing their praises, as to how they weren't our enemy and they hadn't done anything to warrant such a brutal attack.
But the Police will kick down doors and shoot anyone that tries to physically stop them from getting the suspect. So they can be brought to trial.
They were culpable, because they allowed a group to function within their borders, gave them aid and security, while they performed acts of violence outside their borders.
I know you're grasping at straws to support your position, but now you're just babbling nonsense. Why aren't you this mindful of religious traditions and offer such defences for the Jews eao?
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Best you can come up with - What a bore you are.
Do not let critical thinking get in the way of what you believe.
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A portrait of Aisha.
Yes, of course it is time to run out admitting that a bunch of savages have forced you to your knee's. :roll:
Never mind the original reason for getting involved, seems long forgotten. Just not sure how anyone can stand by letting this happen.
There is a job to complete there, how can anyone talk of placating or appeasing animals like the Taliban.
TIME Cover Depicts the Disturbing Plight of Afghan Women - TIME
Yes, of course it is time to run out admitting that a bunch of savages have forced you to your knee's. :roll:
Never mind the original reason for getting involved, seems long forgotten. Just not sure how anyone can stand by letting this happen.
There is a job to complete there, how can anyone talk of placating or appeasing animals like the Taliban.
TIME Cover Depicts the Disturbing Plight of Afghan Women - TIME
You cannot change a culture through war, only during periods of peace are human rights advanced.
Nice answer, if it only worked. Those living today cannot wait, nor should they have to.
...and forced to you`re knees is whats happening, pleading to Wikileaks not to reveal more disturbing facts about just whats going on.
"Never mind the original reason for getting involved, seems long forgotten"....
Perhaps by most Americans. (did you hear Lindsay Lohan got released from prision over the weekend!??8O) That outta keep American`s minds busy for the next few days/weeks. lol
Meanwhile plots to destroy whats left of you pathetic excuses of a society are being drawn up and timed to execute when you least expect it....along with you`re own acts of self destruction.
As for the `job` to complete there, you`ve had 8 or 9 years to show you are capable. So far you`ve failed as an army, despite the big stick you carry. Does that tell you anything?
I pray to see the day you cowards are brought to you`re knees and justice delt out to you pariahs of this earth.
"Never mind the original reason for getting involved, seems long forgotten"....
Perhaps by most Americans. (did you hear Lindsay Lohan got released from prision over the weekend!??8O) That outta keep American`s minds busy for the next few days/weeks. lol
Meanwhile plots to destroy whats left of you pathetic excuses of a society are being drawn up and timed to execute when you least expect it....along with you`re own acts of self destruction.
As for the `job` to complete there, you`ve had 8 or 9 years to show you are capable. So far you`ve failed as an army, despite the big stick you carry. Does that tell you anything?
I pray to see the day you cowards are brought to you`re knees and justice delt out to you pariahs of this earth.
Yes they made lots of mistakes - Funny thing is Russia, China even Iran do not want the Taliban in power - Wonder why that is
As to the end of the US and possibly with Israel - they may or may not be in it -
Israel will be going into Lebanon but not before the US Nov elections.
Same with taking out the Iranian Nuke Facilities - Not until after the US Nov election
What country will replace the US as the world power?
Do you have the ability to figure that out.
Now when the US / Bombs Iran if they do not comply with the resolutions from the UN and Western Countries - What do you think the fallout will be.
Can you think that far - Do you have the ability to figure that out.
And what about the ocal Afghans who were named by the leaks - I am sure the Taliban are hunting them and their families down to exact a horrific revenge.
Guess that is of no concern to a person of your stature.
"What country will replace the US as the world power?"...
Zimbabwe? This way Americans could abide by the rules. Let em keep thier guns and pride. Heck, take target practice on themselves if they got bored not being a world power.
"Now when the US / Bombs Iran if they do not comply with the resolutions from the UN and Western Countries - What do you think the fallout will be.".....
More of the same, but with a lot more people wary of the idea? We do afterall, have short memories. Will it take another 9/11 or worse to remind us?
"And what about the ocal Afghans who were named by the leaks - I am sure the Taliban are hunting them and their families down to exact a horrific revenge."....
You deal with the devil, expect those returns.
Zimbabwe? This way Americans could abide by the rules. Let em keep thier guns and pride. Heck, take target practice on themselves if they got bored not being a world power.
"Now when the US / Bombs Iran if they do not comply with the resolutions from the UN and Western Countries - What do you think the fallout will be.".....
More of the same, but with a lot more people wary of the idea? We do afterall, have short memories. Will it take another 9/11 or worse to remind us?
"And what about the ocal Afghans who were named by the leaks - I am sure the Taliban are hunting them and their families down to exact a horrific revenge."....
You deal with the devil, expect those returns.
I did not expect anything better from you - The US is the devil and all others are not.
You put Simple in the word Simpleton.
Sad that the steel cage is closed now isn't it. I am sure that you and i could really have a good old time. i do hope to meet sometime. Perhaps over a beer.
PS - Please note that I do not pick up on your simple spelling mistakes - if that is all you can come back with to me, then I would suggest a hard look to what you believe in. It would not take much time or thought now would it.
Name you`re brand Goofer....I`l run out and grab a six-pack, get you drunk and set my five Arab friends (hi AnnaG) upon you. lol :smile: