A very bad idea, the 2011 census long form will be voluntary
- Thread starter Tonington
- Start date
I guarantee the people that went through that thought that at first too. Nah. Could never happen to us? Not in this day and age of newspapers and radio. We're too informed and too smart for that.
I think the powers that be have a pretty good idea how many people are in the country w/o a census, power consumption alone would be a good indication. I'm in favour of the short form- name, age and address are good enough. HOw many forms are already "floating" around out there with far too much information on them?
Like I said, if Stats Can cannot get the facts straight, they'll use whatever info they can. That includes false info.
Gee, there's that Petros guy over there farming in the prairies. Someone told us he has a thousand sections and by our last records, he's not paying enough land tax.
Says here, Scott Free has only 1 kid. Why have we been allowing him 4 child tax credits?
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1653/canada-scraps-census-long-form-genealogist-statisticians-worry
I think they could add a pretty big list covering the extent of the effects of an uninformed and/or misinformed survey
Gee, there's that Petros guy over there farming in the prairies. Someone told us he has a thousand sections and by our last records, he's not paying enough land tax.
Says here, Scott Free has only 1 kid. Why have we been allowing him 4 child tax credits?
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1653/canada-scraps-census-long-form-genealogist-statisticians-worry
I think they could add a pretty big list covering the extent of the effects of an uninformed and/or misinformed survey
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The short form, which is still mandatory, covers that. They could also use tax returns. Power consumption is pretty variable isn't it, depending on how affluent one is?
But that's a great parallel to what is happening now. Self-reporting biases will mean that some groups will be weighted more highly than others in the survey, which gives an unreliable accounting of the reality of Canadian society.
The long form covers everything else. How educated is our workforce? How is language use changing? Ethnicity? Distance traveled to work? They might not be interesting to you, but they matter a great deal to others.
Say I want to open a franchise restaurant, and I know that some ethnic groups (lets say South Asians) are more likely to be a customer. I can use census data.
Go here:
Census Pundits' Guide to Canadian Federal Elections
Scroll down to <ALL CENSUS METRIC GROUPS> and click on ethnicity. That's information on the long form...
Then choose South Asian in the <CHOOSE CENSUS METRIC>
The return gives you districts in Canada, ranked by % of the population which is South Asian.
So using that data, I'll focus my franchising on the top 5 districts:
1. Newton-North Delta
2. Bramalea-Gore-Malton
3. Brampton-Springdale
4. Etobicoke North
5. Surrey North
Not only that, I can get detailed information about those districts, age, education, use of public transit, family size, income, all of which are likely going to be useful data to include in my business plan.
That's just one example of how useful it can be. If you're a small business owner, this data can be used extremely effectively to make your business more competitive.
The usefulness of having reliable census data cannot be underscored enough.
The Census data is the database that social science research in Canada uses. It is thedata which is used to examine our labour force.
Far too much information? Can there be far too much information about Canada, for Canadians to use? Nobody will ever see the names, or be able to identify a single respondent. Stats Canada has an unblemished record of professional integrity. Despite Scott Free's insistence that it is irrelevant, it is in fact entirely relevant.
The benefits of Canadian citizenship come cheap. The costs are, pay your taxes, don't break the law, and stand up to be counted in the census. That's it. You don't even have to vote if you don't want to.
Considering the fact that some Canadians will do more, and put their life on the line with the Canadian flag stitched to their uniform, I find it highly selfish that some will not fill out a form.
Maybe we just need to offer a free piece of apple i-junk with the questionnaire.
Bloody ridiculous.
So what you are saying is that I should be obligated to give out personal information so some entrepreneur can figure out the most lucrative means to open a restaurant? I don't bloody think so........:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
So, what you are saying is that you only read one sentence in my reply? Have you read the rest of this thread in the same manner?
EDIT: The entrepreneurial example was just that, one example of how the data is important to others. I guess you're fine with handicapping entrepreneurs in Canada. That's pretty friggin weird...
I guess you also missed the part about "unblemished" record, about the use of census data by social science.
This only reinforces my view that we need to incorporate civics far more in the education system.
I mean seriously, you've posted a thread on the declining productivity in Canada. The knowledge sector is universally noted as a sector which produces large gains in productivity, by economists across the board. And the knowledge industry requires good data.
Do you honestly feel that we don't need to have an accurate view of how Canada is changing with time? Your generation is aging, and mine is going to be paying for social services for a large group of Canadians, the largest block of retirees in Canadian history. Having good data is absolutely critical.
EDIT: The entrepreneurial example was just that, one example of how the data is important to others. I guess you're fine with handicapping entrepreneurs in Canada. That's pretty friggin weird...
I guess you also missed the part about "unblemished" record, about the use of census data by social science.
This only reinforces my view that we need to incorporate civics far more in the education system.
I mean seriously, you've posted a thread on the declining productivity in Canada. The knowledge sector is universally noted as a sector which produces large gains in productivity, by economists across the board. And the knowledge industry requires good data.
Do you honestly feel that we don't need to have an accurate view of how Canada is changing with time? Your generation is aging, and mine is going to be paying for social services for a large group of Canadians, the largest block of retirees in Canadian history. Having good data is absolutely critical.
The age of computers means I use a computer to access census data. Do you even know what a census is?
Yes, well census data won't identify you at all. Census data is more secure than the information you give out freely to other people, so I fail to see your ideological objection to information here.
For one good reason- the cost to collect it. Do I know what a census it? What do you think I am? A f**King idiot? I probably know more about it than you do, wiseguy.
They're going to mail out more surveys. The cost will be higher....
I don't know if you're an idiot, perhaps, but you're definitely ignorant.
A census is a complete data set for a national population. It allows users to track changes, and make use of meaningful information. Having access to a computer doesn't mean we don't require a census. Facebook and the other crap where someone might find your information is not an alternative. How is a researcher interested in public health supposed to utilize all of that? If you're talking about costs, this is a far worse situation.
If you think it probable that you know what's what, maybe you should explain what it is you know to the economists, researchers, statisticians, municipalities, university professors, francophone associations, native associations, and business owners who've indicated that this is, indeed, a bad idea.
I don't know if you're an idiot, perhaps, but you're definitely ignorant.
A census is a complete data set for a national population. It allows users to track changes, and make use of meaningful information. Having access to a computer doesn't mean we don't require a census. Facebook and the other crap where someone might find your information is not an alternative. How is a researcher interested in public health supposed to utilize all of that? If you're talking about costs, this is a far worse situation.
If you think it probable that you know what's what, maybe you should explain what it is you know to the economists, researchers, statisticians, municipalities, university professors, francophone associations, native associations, and business owners who've indicated that this is, indeed, a bad idea.
It's good you are finding that out. There is nothing wrong with differing opinions on a forum, but when You start insulting people like me and being a jerk about it you're liable to come out on the losing end. I can be the nicest guy in the world but I sure don't take any crap from anybody.
Considering there are dozens of "polling" Companies who seem to be exempt from the "Do Not Call" rules I doubt that the "long form" has the same value it may have had in the past.
Alright then. Let's try it nice and simple then.
Why is the census unnecessary? You've mentioned computers, but having a computer without a census means that people will need to spend many hundreds of hours tabulating data, just to get to the point where it is usable, if enough data even exists on that subject to come close to the coverage of a census.
Then you mentioned cost. Well the census is still going to proceed, except they're going to send out more forms. That is an extra cost...
I really don't care about winning or losing, I don't come on here for that. And I don't mince words.
I do care about the competitiveness of my country. This is going to hurt our nation, it won't make it better. It won't save us money. It will decrease productivity. It will make the true effects of policy on the poor and uneducated difficult to ascertain. It will add costs, and thus barriers, to entrepreneurs.
Yes, well like I said, you get what you give.
Right.
People's particulars also change, sometimes several times a year. I know a couple that moved 4 times and acquired 3 kids within a year (one born and two adopted). Now when the time comes to have the kids punctured against polio or whatever, the gov't could fall far short of how much is need if they don't have enough or have bad info.
Denying Canada info about Canadians is extremely short-sighted and quite ignorant, IMO.