Israel 'attacks' Gaza aid fleet

CDNBear

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Yeah ... I'd like to see that article.
Done. I just ask that you keep it to yourself for now. I want to see if these guys can actually do any research, or are they dependent on being spoon fed pablum BS.

But in retrospect, you can read the article Colpy posted, from the Globe and mail. It's pretty much what I have in my box of trix, just explained by a law professor.

Though from Argus, it would have been difficult to board, it seems to me the surface guys had to wait until the suspect vessel was within so many miles from territorial waters.
Without knowing the intent of the vessel. Unfortunately, this vessel broadcast its intent days ahead of time.
It wouldn't surprise me that some rules have been updated since 1978 ... and it surprises me even less that none of them would matter to Israel anyhow.
lol.

Innocent until proven guilty? Bear, you're talking Israel.... You can't be serious.
Of course I am. How can you feel better then the bad guy, if you don't hold yourself to a higher standard?
 
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lone wolf

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Done. I just ask that you keep it to yourself for now. I want to see if these guys can actually do any research, or are they dependent on being spoon fed pablum BS.

But in retrospect, you can read the article Colpy posted, from the Globe and mail. It's pretty much what I have in my box of trix, just explained by a law professor.

Without knowing the intent of the vessel. Unfortunately, this vessel broadcast its intent days ahead of time.
lol.

Of course I am. How can you feel better then the bad guy, if you don't hold yourself to a higher standard?
Innocent until proven guilty is a premise of Common Law. Unfortunately, much of the world does not work on Common Law
 

CDNBear

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Innocent until proven guilty is a premise of Common Law. Unfortunately, much of the world does not work on Common Law
I agree. Which is where we come into opinion, as dictated by perception.

I can respect your opinion/perception, on this matter.
 

captain morgan

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What stopped these IDF "heros" from escorting the ships to Gaza and supervising the transfer of cargo in a manner that would reflect the common sense of the 21st century human?


The naval blockade is a good clue. Further, the Israelis did offer to escort the vessels to alternate port(s) for inspection and disbursement of the "aid" (interesting; I never realized that humanitarian aid included a bounty of butcher knives, clubs and lead pipes - go figure, eh?)

If you want to swap examples of common sense, how wise is it to run a naval blockade specifically seeking to elicit an aggressive response?... That said, let's call this for what it is and not some thinly veiled humanitarian action.


There were plenty of options other than kill and plenty of other options for the aid mission as well.

The Israelis boarded with multiple options with deadly force being the last option.

The martyr-brigade forced the issue and got what they deserved.

If Israel is dishing out the 'blows and bullets' and if anybody complains it is b*tching but if anybody speaks against Israel that is worse than the blows and the bullets. At this time Israel would willingly killsome of it's own in an attempt to put the blame on others.

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight; especially if you are the one instigating a fight.


All you have to do is examine all the 'ante'semitic' crimes (painting things up) complaints over the world over the last few years and reveal the ratio that the events were done by Jews themselves.


Got a link?... Conspiracy theory perhaps?... Or maybe that's what you, personally, need to believe in order to justify erasing the Jews from the planet.
 

MHz

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YOU have stated that it isn't, have you any proof of this?

Nice try though.
Thank you.
Q&A: Is Israel's naval blockade of Gaza legal? | Reuters

CAN ISRAEL IMPOSE A NAVAL BLOCKADE ON GAZA?
Yes it can, according to the law of blockade which was derived from customary international law and codified in the 1909 Declaration of London. It was updated in 1994 in a legally recognized document called the "San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea."
Under some of the key rules, a blockade must be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral states, access to neutral ports cannot be blocked, and an area can only be blockaded which is under enemy control.
"On the basis that Hamas is the ruling entity of Gaza and Israel is in the midst of an armed struggle against that ruling entity, the blockade is legal," said Philip Roche, partner in the shipping disputes and risk management team with law firm Norton Rose.
WHAT ARE INTERNATIONAL WATERS?
Under the U.N. Convention of the Law of the Sea a coastal state has a "territorial sea" of 12 nautical miles from the coast over which it is sovereign. Ships of other states are allowed "innocent passage" through such waters.
There is a further 12 nautical mile zone called the "contiguous zone" over which a state may take action to protect itself or its laws.
"However, strictly beyond the 12 nautical miles limit the seas are the "high seas" or international waters," Roche said.
The Israeli navy said on Monday the Gaza bound flotilla was intercepted 120 km (75 miles) west of Israel. The Turkish captain of one of the vessels told an Istanbul news conference after returning home from Israeli detention they were 68 miles outside Israeli territorial waters.
Under the law of a blockade, intercepting a vessel could apply globally so long as a ship is bound for a "belligerent" territory, legal experts say.
CAN ISRAEL USE FORCE WHEN INTERCEPTING SHIPS?
Under international law it can use force when boarding a ship.
"If force is disproportionate it would be a violation of the key tenets of the use of force," said Commander James Kraska, professor of international law at the U.S. Naval War College.
Israeli authorities said marines who boarded the Turkish vessel Mavi Marmara opened fire in self-defense after activists clubbed and stabbed them and snatched some of their weapons.
Legal experts say proportional force does not mean that guns cannot be used by forces when being attacked with knives.
"But there has got to be a relationship between the threat and response," Kraska said.
The use of force may also have other repercussions.
"While the full facts need to emerge from a credible and transparent investigation, from what is known now, it appears that Israel acted within its legal rights," said J. Peter Pham, a strategic adviser to U.S. and European governments.
"However, not every operation that the law permits is necessarily prudent from the strategic point of view."
OPPONENTS HAVE CALLED ISRAEL'S RAID "PIRACY." WAS IT?
No, as under international law it was considered a state action.
"Whether what Israel did is right or wrong, it is not an act of piracy. Piracy deals with private conduct particularly with a pecuniary or financial interest," Kraska said.
HAVE THERE BEEN ANY SHIPPING DISRUPTIONS AFTER THE RAID?
None so far but the International Chamber of Shipping (ICS), an association which represents 75 percent of the world's merchant fleet, has expressed "deep concern" over the boarding by Israeli forces, arguing that merchant ships have a right to safe passage and freedom of navigation in international waters.
"These fundamental principles of international law must always be upheld by all of the world's nations," the ICS said.
For links to the maritime declarations click on: here!OpenDocument
here

Does a state of crease-fire delete the 'armed conflict' position Israel so firmly stand on. Seems that Israel uses any time as an opportunity to re-arm themselves.

If America were to blockade Iran it is an act of war, Israel's position is there because the US back sit, Israel cannot dismiss an elected body just because they are vote in after 20 years of military occupation of Israel.

"If the US wants to implement the (draft) resolution, it would have to go for naval blockade," Tripta Parsi, head of the Washington-based National Iranian American Council, said.
"And the naval blockade, according to the International Law, is an act of war. So, it is a way to start a war without doing it with missiles and other means the American public are sensitive to," Parsi added in an interview with Gulf News in reference to the tabled draft resolution number 362. So far, it has attracted the co-sponsorship of nearly half of the 430-member House of Representatives.
The draft resolution calls on the President to stop all shipments of refined petroleum products from reaching Iran. It also "demands" that the President impose "stringent inspection requirements on all persons, vehicles, ships, planes, trains and cargo entering or departing Iran".


gulfnews : Naval blockade may lead to war
 
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petros

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Israel should keep on doing what it's doing so Canada can get even more unwanted immigrants that don't want to be blown to bits by either side of this bull**** extravaganza.
 

CDNBear

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CAN ISRAEL IMPOSE A NAVAL BLOCKADE ON GAZA?
Yes it can
See how easy that was.

Good on you for finally conceding when proven wrong.

So the recap goes, Mhz and company claim it was illegal for Israel to board the Mavi Marmara (and the rest of the Flotilla), you now acknowledge it was not. You have claimed that the blockade was illegal, you now acknowledge it is not. Some of you claimed it was piracy, you now acknowledge it was not. You claimed it was murder, when the Israeli forces defended themselves with deadly force, you now acknowledge it was not.

I'm so pleased you finally acknowledged your short comings and conceded to what I have been getting at all along. See what happens when you actually vet the tripe you usually have spoon fed to you, you actually learn something, well at least I hope you did.

Thank you.

No no, thank you mhz.
 
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eanassir

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Now that is a true and simple solution to the problem. Wonder why the Palestinians could not bring themselves to do it.

There is no reason to keep us safe from Israel, for it they who have been protecting us all these years.


Certainly, this the opinion of the Israelis.
While in fact: Palestine is for Palestinians.
 

clutch

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"Israel has said there is no need for an international inquiry into the incident, insisting its own will meet the "highest international standards"."

This screams GUILTY !
 

CDNBear

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JBeee

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American, 19, Among Gaza Flotilla Dead

Furkan Dogan Was Shot Five Times, Including Four Times in Head

By ZOE MAGEE

June 3, 2010—

A U.S. citizen who lived in Turkey is among the nine people killed when Israeli commandos stormed a Turkish aid ship heading for the Gaza Strip, officials said today. The victim was identified as Furkan Dogan, 19, a Turkish-American. A forensic report said he was shot at close range, with four bullets in his head and one in his chest, according to the Anatolian news agency.

Dogan was a high school student studying social sciences in the town of Kayseri in central Turkey. He was born in Troy, N.Y., and moved to Turkey at the age of 2. He will be buried in his hometown tomorrow.

Dogan's body was returned to Turkey today along with eight others, all Turkish nationals, who were on board the Mavi Marmara.
 

MHz

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The naval blockade is a good clue. Further, the Israelis did offer to escort the vessels to alternate port(s) for inspection and disbursement of the "aid" (interesting; I never realized that humanitarian aid included a bounty of butcher knives, clubs and lead pipes - go figure, eh?)
Ever been on a ship that has a cafeteria? How about those fake photo's about body armor, ....... ? If they wanted to inspect the cargo they could have asked to send ocer some custom's officials. A handful could have had a list prepared by the time they reached Gaza City directly, saves all the batteries and such that never makes it to their destination. Notice this was enough for Egypt to open her borders, why weren't they open before and the blockade running affair could have been avoided.

If you want to swap examples of common sense, how wise is it to run a naval blockade specifically seeking to elicit an aggressive response?... That said, let's call this for what it is and not some thinly veiled humanitarian action.
What I want is to see something that resembles UN181 that was signed in my name as a Canadian . The document is still supposed to be in force, 33 Counties are supposed to be actively that document. I thought we had progressed past treating people the way our forefathers did when taking over ownership of this land. As it is UN181 seems to have about the same sort of support that the 1880' style Treaties had.

The Israelis boarded with multiple options with deadly force being the last option.
Oh, what were their options other than change your course, turn-back. When a thief announces himself at the door of your 'home' you are under no obligation to let him in. Since it was an pre anounced trip did Israel ask to be there for the loading, they might have been given permission.

The martyr-brigade forced the issue and got what they deserved.
They were on their ship, bandits come aboard that way, a civilized Nation send somebody with a clip-board and a camera. Come aboard a warship and things start off quite differently.

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight; especially if you are the one instigating a fight.
The table knives were there from the 1st cruise the ship ever made. How many on-board and the photo of the collected 'weapons'. 400 and people and about 40 'weapons' That is not a very well armed group until you take into account this was a 'home invasion' rather than a warship.

Got a link?... Conspiracy theory perhaps?... Or maybe that's what you, personally, need to believe in order to justify erasing the Jews from the planet.
What?? Nothing of the sort, just because God has them marked for salvation is no reason to be a 'bad neighbor' as defined in their own Book. It get even worse if they have to consider Christians as being equal to them rather than all Gentiles being 'unclean Heathens'.

google.ca They weren't real big events by themselves, like I indicated but they do exist.

I try to get info from both sides before forming anything close to a 'final opinion'.

See how easy that was.
Good on you for finally conceding when proven wrong.
NP, they certainly have one set up, the legality still has yet to be settled. So far it by gun-boat diplomacy, with the added twist, that only one side is allowed to have weapons (and use them ) during a declared cease-fire to enforce a blocade that is even illegal under an official state of war in that humanitarian goods are included as prohibited goods. That is why the next group from turkey will have a much bigger stick.

So the recap goes, Mhz and company claim it was illegal for Israel to board the Mavi Marmara (and the rest of the Flotilla), you now acknowledge it was not. You have claimed that the blockade was illegal, you now acknowledge it is not. Some of you claimed it was piracy, you now acknowledge it was not. You claimed it was murder, when the Israeli forces defended themselves with deadly force, you now acknowledge it was not.
Who is this company you mention, the majority of thinking people? Certain conditions have to be met first, a point you seem avoid acknowledging. The Israeli method of delivering humanitarian aid is purposely designed to be as inefficient at best

I'm so pleased you finally acknowledged your short comings and conceded to what I have been getting at all along. See what happens when you actually vet the tripe you usually have spoon fed to you, you actually learn something, well at least I hope you did.
That is why you get so many links that are to 'more knowledgeable words on the matter at hand'. You have your mentors and there is the net, a free, public resource at the moment.

I'll now give you plenty of time to read the rest of the linked article and the links in that article.

American, 19, Among Gaza Flotilla Dead

Furkan Dogan Was Shot Five Times, Including Four Times in Head

By ZOE MAGEE

June 3, 2010—

A U.S. citizen who lived in Turkey is among the nine people killed when Israeli commandos stormed a Turkish aid ship heading for the Gaza Strip, officials said today. The victim was identified as Furkan Dogan, 19, a Turkish-American. A forensic report said he was shot at close range, with four bullets in his head and one in his chest, according to the Anatolian news agency.

Dogan was a high school student studying social sciences in the town of Kayseri in central Turkey. He was born in Troy, N.Y., and moved to Turkey at the age of 2. He will be buried in his hometown tomorrow.

Dogan's body was returned to Turkey today along with eight others, all Turkish nationals, who were on board the Mavi Marmara.
Did any clear scans of that book that was supposedly dropped by the IDF, identification does not necessarily mean execution unless it point to that when the bodies and the injured are compared to that item.
 

ironsides

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American, 19, Among Gaza Flotilla Dead

Furkan Dogan Was Shot Five Times, Including Four Times in Head

By ZOE MAGEE

June 3, 2010—

A U.S. citizen who lived in Turkey is among the nine people killed when Israeli commandos stormed a Turkish aid ship heading for the Gaza Strip, officials said today. The victim was identified as Furkan Dogan, 19, a Turkish-American. A forensic report said he was shot at close range, with four bullets in his head and one in his chest, according to the Anatolian news agency.

Dogan was a high school student studying social sciences in the town of Kayseri in central Turkey. He was born in Troy, N.Y., and moved to Turkey at the age of 2. He will be buried in his hometown tomorrow.

Dogan's body was returned to Turkey today along with eight others, all Turkish nationals, who were on board the Mavi Marmara.
How about that, he was a fool also.

So many of you are complete hypocrites. Some of you say how bad Israel treats the Palestinians and in the same breath praise Turkey's support of the terrorists tying to run the Israeli blockade.


Now I will explain the hypocrite part. I am not referring to opinions, but to your stances on Israel and just about any other country that seems to support your views against everything Jewish. I am referring in this instance to the so called support of Turkey and their support of the so called Gaza relief organizations. Turkey has massacred more people than Israel has killed in defense of their country. Between 1984-91, an estimated 2,500 Kurdish people have been killed. Over the next four years, that figure shot up to 20,000. Some 3,000 villages have been destroyed by the Turkish military in an effort to rout out PKK sympathizers, creating more than 2 million refugees.

When Turkey stops killing Kurds and gives them autonomy, allows their children to have Kurdish names. We can maybe say they are a peaceful people.
 

MHz

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Actually, I was supporting the rule of law and reality. You can take that any way you want.

Probably not as "embarrassingly dumb" as ignoring reality, so you can continue to rant on and hate.

But the sad part is, you likely don't know you should be embarrassed, because you're actually dumb.
Is that equal law of the law the Royals enjoy over the servants? The UN documents they EVERYBODY has signed point to law of equality. Colpy thinks the Rothschild KKKlan is a myth, you have said something simolar haven't you? As it stands I think they are more for the old ways.

YouTube - Criminal Rothschilds
 

lone wolf

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American, 19, Among Gaza Flotilla Dead

Furkan Dogan Was Shot Five Times, Including Four Times in Head

By ZOE MAGEE

June 3, 2010—

A U.S. citizen who lived in Turkey is among the nine people killed when Israeli commandos stormed a Turkish aid ship heading for the Gaza Strip, officials said today. The victim was identified as Furkan Dogan, 19, a Turkish-American. A forensic report said he was shot at close range, with four bullets in his head and one in his chest, according to the Anatolian news agency.

Dogan was a high school student studying social sciences in the town of Kayseri in central Turkey. He was born in Troy, N.Y., and moved to Turkey at the age of 2. He will be buried in his hometown tomorrow.

Dogan's body was returned to Turkey today along with eight others, all Turkish nationals, who were on board the Mavi Marmara.
"At close range" is pretty much normal on a ship.