None is more merciful than God Most Gracious

[eanassir]

You cannot even conceive of the possibility that you might be wrong,

Why should I not be wrong multiple of times? but only God is Essentially True. And the atheist and disbeliever is wrong.

it's just deny, deny, deny, in the face of all evidence and reason

Here you started your insisting and asserting fallacy; it is you that deny that there is a Creator of everything in the universe and this is the point where you run away from every logical evidence.

and you can offer nothing in support of your position but the presumed authority of a text from a superstitious, pre-scientific and largely pre-literate age.

Here, I don't agree with your sentence: the Quran is not like what you assert: No, it is the word of God the All-Knowing the All- Wise: it includes many facts and arguments but you don't want to consider: is it the age or the fanatism to your people or the fanatism to your atheism or the pride to disbelief? I don't know, but try to consider, and you will not consider unless God guides you or else He makes your heart depressed and embarrassed and dislike the Quran and the devotion to God alone??

You will continue to understand less than nothing as long as you believe the Quran's claims trump science and reason.

The Quran does not object to science nor to reason: on the contrary; God invited people to think and contemplate as in the Quran 34: 46

قُلْ إِنَّمَا أَعِظُكُم بِوَاحِدَةٍ أَن تَقُومُوا لِلَّهِ مَثْنَى وَفُرَادَى ثُمَّ تَتَفَكَّرُوا مَا بِصَاحِبِكُم مِّن جِنَّةٍ إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ لَّكُم بَيْنَ يَدَيْ عَذَابٍ شَدِيدٍ​

The explanation:
(Say [Mohammed, to them]:
"I only advise you to one [point]:

to be concerned about [discerning the religion of] God;

[and to go for this purpose] two by two and one by one,

then to think [and realize] that there is no madness in your man [: Mohammed]; he is only a warner to you [of a punishment] by the hands [of angels] of severe chastisement.)


The meaning: That is to think as individual man by himself, or two men thinking together and consulting each other to think about Mohammed and his Quran and his mission; but if more than two men thinking together there will be confusion of ideas and thinking; but only one by one or two by two.​

 

[Johnnny]

once again i give the edge to dexter sinister

raw hard logic always trumps the feinting denial tactic

 

[karrie]

Well, you're finally right about something, though for the wrong reasons. There are few things in this life that I find as offensive as the arrogant judgmental certainty of the proselytizing true believer. You cannot even conceive of the possibility that you might be wrong, it's just deny, deny, deny, in the face of all evidence and reason, and you can offer nothing in support of your position but the presumed authority of a text from a superstitious, pre-scientific and largely pre-literate age. You will continue to understand less than nothing as long as you believe the Quran's claims trump science and reason.

And yet you continue trying to talk to him. :lol: Even as a person of faith (no, not his brand of zealous certainty), I don't feel there's much point talking to him, because I don't like being preached at, even when I go to church... lol.

 

[AnnaG]

If you break the Law, you'll be sentenced, whether you understand Law or not, whether you read it or not, whether you ever study law itself or not. That's the case.

Similarly God's Law is embedded in your heart and soul. If you offended His Law, you'll be judged and put to jail. If you sinned you'll be driven out of His kingdom, the same as how Adam sinned and being driven out of Eden, and same as how Lucifer the archangel sinned and being driven out of heaven.

God is to save souls instead of bodies here on earth. Here on earth humans are basically not in His Kingdom. That's why the myseries (you die once anyway). And everyone requires to pass the final judgment in order to return to God and His kingdom in heaven. And God foresaw that you won't stand a chance in the judgment. Jesus Christ is thus sent and a new covenant is in place which allows you to escape from the Judgment by Law.

If you refuse to take the new covenant, and when you are judged to be sinful, a permanent separation from God will be called. It is said that His sheep will take the new covenant. It is also said that those who aren't His sheep will continue to sin against His Law without repentance.

Moreover, it is said in the Book of Revelation that Satan (who is said to be an ex-archangel) is an accuser accussing people of sinning in order to keep them in jail with him. So good luck, either to find yourself a good lawyer or prepare yourself for the defense.

Revelation 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down."

Alternatively, take the Second Covenant as a gift such that the final Judgment by Law can be avoided.

I base my belief on both faith and evidence God gives me. Others may base their beliefs (yes beliefs) on the lack of evidence. Yet the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. They thus base their beliefs on a fallacy.

Finally, even when I have truly met with God, there's not any efficient way for such a kind of truth to be conveyed among humans. Humans still need faith to either believe or to disbelieve the existence of God. The more scientific answer for God's existence is "I don't know", instead of "He doesn't exist" (this latter answer requires faith).

Nice sermon, preacher. Now how does this relate to atheists, Taoists, and Shintoists?

I could give you a link to a site that will list 100 prophecies in the OT that were fulfilled. Some being more important than others. It it is true the OT is vague about some, with good reason. The Messiah coming to establish 'who His people are' was not real blatant' and only become clear once the NT was written. Not being able to tell the ending because some pages are missing is not the same as being clueless about the message once all the pages are there. That comes from being lazy, the doctrine settled on is based on 'being close' rather than being 'perfect'.

Complete with evidence rather than Biblical hearsay? That'd be interesting.
"Why should we believe what the Bible says?"
"Because it is God's word."
"Who says it is God's word?"
"Hmmmmm... Good point."

because I don't like being preached at, even when I go to church... lol.

lmao Me either. I skip over most of the long-winded, rambling posts.

 

[JLM]

If you break the Law, you'll be sentenced, whether you understand Law or not, whether you read it or not, whether you ever study law itself or not. That's the case.

Similarly God's Law is embedded in your heart and soul. If you offended His Law, you'll be judged and put to jail. If you sinned you'll be driven out of His kingdom, the same as how Adam sinned and being driven out of Eden, and same as how Lucifer the archangel sinned and being driven out of heaven.

God is to save souls instead of bodies here on earth. Here on earth humans are basically not in His Kingdom. That's why the myseries (you die once anyway). And everyone requires to pass the final judgment in order to return to God and His kingdom in heaven. And God foresaw that you won't stand a chance in the judgment. Jesus Christ is thus sent and a new covenant is in place which allows you to escape from the Judgment by Law.

If you refuse to take the new covenant, and when you are judged to be sinful, a permanent separation from God will be called. It is said that His sheep will take the new covenant. It is also said that those who aren't His sheep will continue to sin against His Law without repentance.

Moreover, it is said in the Book of Revelation that Satan (who is said to be an ex-archangel) is an accuser accussing people of sinning in order to keep them in jail with him. So good luck, either to find yourself a good lawyer or prepare yourself for the defense.

Revelation 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down."

Alternatively, take the Second Covenant as a gift such that the final Judgment by Law can be avoided.

I base my belief on both faith and evidence God gives me. Others may base their beliefs (yes beliefs) on the lack of evidence. Yet the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. They thus base their beliefs on a fallacy.

Finally, even when I have truly met with God, there's not any efficient way for such a kind of truth to be conveyed among humans. Humans still need faith to either believe or to disbelieve the existence of God. The more scientific answer for God's existence is "I don't know", instead of "He doesn't exist" (this latter answer requires faith).

What do we have here? Another "Johnny Come Lately" Bible thumper? Hey- most of us on here know how to read and most of us have access to a Bible, if not at home in the library, so there is no use in drivelling this stuff out on a public forum. As for the opening sentence, it's total bullsh*t!!!!!!!!!! How many of the 308 M.P.s ever get sentenced?.......................one ? two? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Why should I not be wrong multiple of times?

How about all the time?

but only God is Essentially True. And the atheist and disbeliever is wrong.

There's the point you can't conceive that you might be wrong about.

Here you started your insisting and asserting fallacy; it is you that deny that there is a Creator of everything in the universe and this is the point where you run away from every logical evidence.

Insisting and asserting aren't fallacies, but I have made no such assertion, and I'd further argue that if you think evidence demonstrates the existence of a Creator then you haven't understood it. Don't they teach you anything about biological evolution in medical school? There is a subtle but crucial difference between stating "I believe there is no god," and "I don't believe there is a god." The latter is my position, the former is the straw man you keep trying to knock down.

And yet you continue trying to talk to him. :lol: .

Yeah well... :smile: I have often thought of paying no attention, then the voice in my head says, "You can't let that go unchallenged."

 

[eanassir]

And yet you continue trying to talk to him. :lol: Even as a person of faith (no, not his brand of zealous certainty), I don't feel there's much point talking to him, because I don't like being preached at, even when I go to church... lol.

Why is this, karrie? :-(
Anyhow, the aim is to have the good pleasure of God, or what? :-(

once again i give the edge to dexter sinister

raw hard logic always trumps the feinting denial tactic

The truth is the truth; whatever they try to decorate all the atheism with some repetetive words. The falsehood cannot stand in the face of the truth. God is the truth and their claims are false.

The contrary of your assertion is the truth. The logic is against the atheism, disbelief and idolatry.

(Say: "Who provides you [with provision] from the heavens and the earth?" Say: "God [it is Who provides for you],

and you will see whether I or you are on guidance or in obvious error.")

The above between brackets is the explanation of the Quran aya 4: 24​

قُلْ مَن يَرْزُقُكُم مِّنَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ قُلِ اللَّهُ وَإِنَّا أَوْ إِيَّاكُمْ لَعَلَى هُدًى أَوْ فِي ضَلَالٍ مُّبِينٍ​

www.quran-ayat.com
​

​

 

[Dexter Sinister]

"The logic is against the atheism..."
No it's not. If you'd read something besides the Quran you'd know better than to say something as dumb as that. Try some of Victor Stenger's books.

 

[karrie]

Why is this, karrie? :-(
Anyhow, the aim is to have the good pleasure of God, or what? :-(

Why is this. That is a complicated question eanassir. I guess because no matter how bad others and I might fight about our different conclusions, I know they are listening to me when I speak. You don't listen to anyone... you let them talk to you, and then keep repeating what you said. When things have hit that point, there is no longer a reason to discuss.

The aim for me isn't pleasure, no. The aim for me is understanding, of others and of myself.

 

[JLM]

Why is this, karrie? :-(
Anyhow, the aim is to have the good pleasure of God, or what? :-(




The truth is the truth; whatever they try to decorate all the atheism with some repetetive words. The falsehood cannot stand in the face of the truth. God is the truth and their claims are false.

The contrary of your assertion is the truth. The logic is against the atheism, disbelief and idolatry.

(Say: "Who provides you [with provision] from the heavens and the earth?" Say: "God [it is Who provides for you], ​

and you will see whether I or you are on guidance or in obvious error.")​

The above between brackets is the explanation of the Quran aya 4: 24​

قُلْ مَن يَرْزُقُكُم مِّنَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ قُلِ اللَّهُ وَإِنَّا أَوْ إِيَّاكُمْ لَعَلَى هُدًى أَوْ فِي ضَلَالٍ مُّبِينٍ​

www.quran-ayat.com​

Don't you ever tire of contributing to internet pollution? :angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire:

 

[eanassir]

Why is this. That is a complicated question eanassir. I guess because no matter how bad others and I might fight about our different conclusions, I know they are listening to me when I speak. You don't listen to anyone... you let them talk to you, and then keep repeating what you said. When things have hit that point, there is no longer a reason to discuss.

The aim for me isn't pleasure, no. The aim for me is understanding, of others and of myself.

The good-pleasure of God

I mean: Christians, Jews or Muslims or other religion followers: what is the purpose from the following of their religion? It should be to please God: so that God is Well pleased with them: i.e. they follow their religion hoping they are following the right way pleasing God so that they will be rewarded, not punished.

This is essentially the purpose from following their religion: but if they follow the association with God and idolatry and enthusiasm --> then they will miss the good-pleasure of God: i.e. God will not be pleased with them: if they contradict the basis of the religion of God: The First Commandment.

As in the Quran 9: 72

وَعَدَ اللّهُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتِ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الأَنْهَارُ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا وَمَسَاكِنَ طَيِّبَةً فِي جَنَّاتِ عَدْنٍ وَرِضْوَانٌ مِّنَ اللّهِ أَكْبَرُ ذَلِكَ هُوَ الْفَوْزُ الْعَظِيمُ​

The explanation:
(God has [in the Quran] promised to the believers, [both] men and women, ​

>> gardens [in the afterlife] – below [the trees of ] which rivers flow, to dwell therein forever – ​

>> and good dwellings in the seven gardens; ​

and God's good pleasure will be [to them] greater [than the gardens]; ​

that [prosperity and good pleasure] is [certainly] the great success [in the afterlife.])​

www.quran-ayat.com​

Don't you ever tire of contributing to internet pollution? :angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire::angryfire:

booya: this is a great surprise; how you love fire :lol:

How about all the time? There's the point you can't conceive that you might be wrong about. Insisting and asserting aren't fallacies, but I have made no such assertion, and I'd further argue that if you think evidence demonstrates the existence of a Creator then you haven't understood it. Don't they teach you anything about biological evolution in medical school? There is a subtle but crucial difference between stating "I believe there is no god," and "I don't believe there is a god." The latter is my position, the former is the straw man you keep trying to knock down.

Yeah well... :smile: I have often thought of paying no attention, then the voice in my head says, "You can't let that go unchallenged."

Dexter, you are sunken in the atheism to the summit of your head, who will save you from such drowning other than God alone? None other than God can guide man whatever one tries to do his best.

(But their hearts are unaware of this [Book: the Quran] ​

being immersed [in the sea of lusts], ​

and they have other [bad] deeds, which they do, other than this [associatng others with God.])​

The above between brackets is the explanation of the Quran aya 23: 63​

بَلْ قُلُوبُهُمْ فِي غَمْرَةٍ مِّنْ هَذَا وَلَهُمْ أَعْمَالٌ مِن دُونِ ذَلِكَ هُمْ لَهَا عَامِلُونَ​

www.quran-ayat.com​

 

[GreenFish66]

Many Great IDEAS as to what GOD IS/WAS/WILL BE.Any1 who believes, is better than those who don't...

The Bible was/is a great book ...My favorite's came out of "The New testament"..They were the Stories of Luke and John ...I believe they gave the best and most accurate account of Who Jesus was...I like the Story of Jesus...Man and myth ..Is a good read...

The Bible is a good story of how the Human Animal became The Civilized Human ....on our way to becoming Angels ......Or.... if you so choose ..You can go the other way ...8O

Issac/Ismael both from the same blood...Why Abraham would kill/murder 1 of his own ...Beats me...Hearing Voices perhaps?...The beginnings to the realization we could be separate from the Earth and environment...Think for ourselves...Go against natural instinct...etc...However ..I don't think I would have listened to the voice that told me to Kill me son..Hard to believe That was the "VOICE OF GOD:..:?:

 

[SirJosephPorter]

"The logic is against the atheism..."
No it's not. If you'd read something besides the Quran you'd know better than to say something as dumb as that. Try some of Victor Stenger's books.

As I see it, logic is against Islam (indeed, against any religion).

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Dexter, you are sunken in the atheism to the summit of your head...

Yes, exactly the same depth to which you're sunk in superstitious nonsense.

 

[karrie]

This is essentially the purpose from following their religion

And THAT is why you're not worth wasting time talking to. The fact that you feel you have the right to tell me what the purpose of MY spiritual exploration is, is beyond preachy.

 

[Goober]

The good-pleasure of God

I mean: Christians, Jews or Muslims or other religion followers: what is the purpose from the following of their religion? It should be to please God: so that God is Well pleased with them: i.e. they follow their religion hoping they are following the right way pleasing God so that they will be rewarded, not punished.

This is essentially the purpose from following their religion: but if they follow the association with God and idolatry and enthusiasm --> then they will miss the good-pleasure of God: i.e. God will not be pleased with them: if they contradict the basis of the religion of God: The First Commandment.

As in the Quran 9: 72

وَعَدَ اللّهُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتِ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الأَنْهَارُ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا وَمَسَاكِنَ طَيِّبَةً فِي جَنَّاتِ عَدْنٍ وَرِضْوَانٌ مِّنَ اللّهِ أَكْبَرُ ذَلِكَ هُوَ الْفَوْزُ الْعَظِيمُ​

The explanation:
(God has [in the Quran] promised to the believers, [both] men and women, ​

>> gardens [in the afterlife] – below [the trees of ] which rivers flow, to dwell therein forever – ​

>> and good dwellings in the seven gardens; ​

and God's good pleasure will be [to them] greater [than the gardens]; ​

that [prosperity and good pleasure] is [certainly] the great success [in the afterlife.])​

www.quran-ayat.com​

booya: this is a great surprise; how you love fire :lol:



Dexter, you are sunken in the atheism to the summit of your head, who will save you from such drowning other than God alone? None other than God can guide man whatever one tries to do his best.

(But their hearts are unaware of this [Book: the Quran] ​

being immersed [in the sea of lusts], ​

and they have other [bad] deeds, which they do, other than this [associatng others with God.])​

The above between brackets is the explanation of the Quran aya 23: 63​

بَلْ قُلُوبُهُمْ فِي غَمْرَةٍ مِّنْ هَذَا وَلَهُمْ أَعْمَالٌ مِن دُونِ ذَلِكَ هُمْ لَهَا عَامِلُونَ​

www.quran-ayat.com​

So splain to me - an infidel why the greatest killer of Muslims would be other muslims. Why Muslim Govt's ignore the genocide in Sudan -

 

[eanassir]

Yes, exactly the same depth to which you're sunk in superstitious nonsense.

The Quran is not any superstition, neither is any nonsense.

This is what you kept asserting from the start and refusing to understand and investigate the Quran: fearing maybe lest you should convert; because of the false image about the Quran inserted in your mind background.

So shall I insert it by force in your brain; this will certainly be impossible.

As did Noah say to his people who rejected him before their drowning in the deluge; which is in the Quran 11: 28

قَالَ يَا قَوْمِ أَرَأَيْتُمْ إِن كُنتُ عَلَى بَيِّنَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّيَ وَآتَانِي رَحْمَةً مِّنْ عِندِهِ فَعُمِّيَتْ عَلَيْكُمْ أَنُلْزِمُكُمُوهَا وَأَنتُمْ لَهَا كَارِهُونَ​

The explanation:
([Noah] said: "My people tell me your opinion: that if I rely on an obvious [guidance depending on revelation] from my Lord, and He gave to me [the prophethood as] a blessing from Him, ​

and it has been obscured for you [so you have denied it, then what will your fate be?] ​

and shall we compel you to [recognize] it, the while to it you are averse?")​

I think it will be useless to talk to you (and karrie) anymore;
but I shall give you this nice text of the Quran 17: 90-93 about the denial of the people of Prophet Mohammed, and what they demanded of him:
​

وَقَالُواْ لَن نُّؤْمِنَ لَكَ حَتَّى تَفْجُرَ لَنَا مِنَ الأَرْضِ يَنبُوعًا .
أَوْ تَكُونَ لَكَ جَنَّةٌ مِّن نَّخِيلٍ وَعِنَبٍ فَتُفَجِّرَ الأَنْهَارَ خِلالَهَا تَفْجِيرًا .
أَوْ تُسْقِطَ السَّمَاء كَمَا زَعَمْتَ عَلَيْنَا كِسَفًا أَوْ تَأْتِيَ بِاللّهِ وَالْمَلآئِكَةِ قَبِيلاً .
أَوْ يَكُونَ لَكَ بَيْتٌ مِّن زُخْرُفٍ أَوْ تَرْقَى فِي السَّمَاء وَلَن نُّؤْمِنَ لِرُقِيِّكَ حَتَّى تُنَزِّلَ عَلَيْنَا كِتَابًا نَّقْرَؤُهُ قُلْ سُبْحَانَ رَبِّي هَلْ كُنتُ إَلاَّ بَشَرًا رَّسُولاً

The explanation:
(And they say: "We will not believe you [Mohammed] till you cause, for us, a [water] spring to gush forth from the earth [in this desert]."​

"Or you have a garden of date palms and grapes, and [in this desert] cause rivers [like the rivers of Iraq: Tigris and Euphrates] to flow, amidst them, [after] gushing forth [of the springs.]"​

"Or you make the sky to fall down, as you claim, upon us as pieces [of stones]; ​

Or you bring [us] God and the angels before us as a warrant [to testify for us that you truly are the apostle of God.]"​

"Or you have a house decorated [with gold: like the palaces of Kisra the king of Persia], ​

Or you ascend up into heaven, and even then we will not believe your ascension till you bring down for us a book [like the tablets of Moses] that we can read." ​

Say [O Mohammed]: "Glory be to my Lord! Am I nothing but a mortal, a messenger!?")​

www.quran-ayat.com​

 

[Ron in Regina]

Man, if you use your own words, people might very well read them...but if
4/5th's or more of most of your posts are copy&paste stuff from what you
believe is the one true path of faith....and you're only telling others that if they
don't believe as you do, that they're absolutely screwed...it just doesn't sit well
with those that just don't agree with your ideals. It's just the way it is.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

So shall I insert it by force in your brain; this will certainly be impossible.

Doesn't surprise me at all that the option of inserting it by force would occur to you, conversion at the point of a sword is well documented in the history of Islam, but all it shows is the bankruptcy of your position. You're right that it'd be impossible, but if I'm ever at the point of that sword, which I've no doubt you would gleefully wield if you could, I'll just lie to save my life and get away as soon as I can. That's the real issue I have with you proselytizing true believers, you're so sure you're right you think you have both a right and a duty to force your beliefs on others for their own good. I think that is beneath contempt.

 

[eanassir]

Everyone believes some ideas and disbelieves other ideas; so why do you object, while your words are what you believe?

Therefore, whether "copy and paste" or not: if correct discuss it, and if not show it is wrong.

Moreover, what you call "copy and paste" is what I myself have translated and published in books some of them printed by some printing bookhouses in Lebanon and may be elsewhere;

and it is the interpretation of the Glorious Quran by the inspired interpreter Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly who spoke only that which he heard and not from himself.
See the books here in English
www.quran-ayat.com

and in Arabic here
English