Tory G8 abortion stance

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

I fully agree. It's so easy to sit back and dictate what
another person should do about 'their' life.

But that is what religion does, talloola. Religion controls the lives of the faithful by a set of beliefs and creed, a set of dos and don'ts. Dictating how people should live their life comes naturally to any religion.

Which is fine. If a religion wants to control the lives of the faithful, and if the faithful are ready and willing to be controlled by religious patriarchs, that is up to them and nobody's business.

The problem comes when they try to impose their beliefs on the rest of the society, where rest of the members of the society may subscribe to a different religion (or even may be Atheists).

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

..and if my aunt had nuts she`d be the same as me.

One of my Hungarian friend told me a similar proverb in Hungarian. If my aunt had moustache, we would have called her uncle.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

No matter how you slice it is taking a human life whether it's a zygote or near full term it's LIFE is ended over ridiculous excuses.

It is a matter of opinion whether it is a human life, petros.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

Man, did you see the size of that thing? Just the right size to pitch like a baseball. 22 weeks only? Sure is a legitimate abortion target there. A good skull crushing anyone?

I think 22 weeks would approach the stage of fetal viability. So I assume it would be fairly big by that time. In Canada, it is very difficult (if not impossible) to get an abortion after 20 weeks, unless there is serious risk to woman's health or life.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

Yup, it`s a complete hornet`s nest.

A hornet's nest indeed. And that is why it is best left alone. We don't want a decade long, bitter and divisive debate, like they are having in USA.

 

[numbnuts]

Re: Henry Morgantaler- Saint or Common Criminal?

a criminal

 

[numbnuts]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

They start as fetus. At some stage, they become human beings. We don't know when.

Maybe you don't, but anyone with a working brain should. A fetus is a living being, and becomes a human at the moment it is born.

 

[JLM]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

Maybe you don't, but anyone with a working brain should. A fetus is a living being, and becomes a human at the moment it is born.

Don't you just love the "Royal We"? Actually I believe Queen Victoria had the copy rights to that and at the very least I would think permission from Lizzie would have to be granted before being so presumptuous as to use it. :lol:

 

[DaSleeper]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

And eleven or twelve posts in a row does not an expert make.....
Where is Andem's automatic post merge when it's needed??????:lol:
Flooding??? or....Anything to up the post count....

 

[Kreskin]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

Maybe you don't, but anyone with a working brain should. A fetus is a living being, and becomes a human at the moment it is born.

Hey numbnuts..I don't think so. (Just had to say that..no real reason lol)

 

[Tonington]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

Since a fetus is nothing more than a parasite until birth it has no rights.

This talking point comes up often, and makes no sense. A host body will employ systems to inhibit parasites, and attempt to get rid of the parasite. A human growing inside it's human mother faces no such pressure, which all other parasites face. To the contrary, the females body changes to protect and nourish the parasite.

Parasitism refers to an interaction that is wholly different from gestation. And more than that, rights are a human construct, and the type of interaction between organisms is meaningless for discussion of what does and does not have rights.

 

[talloola]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

But that is what religion does, talloola. Religion controls the lives of the faithful by a set of beliefs and creed, a set of dos and don'ts. Dictating how people should live their life comes naturally to any religion.

Which is fine. If a religion wants to control the lives of the faithful, and if the faithful are ready and willing to be controlled by religious patriarchs, that is up to them and nobody's business.

The problem comes when they try to impose their beliefs on the rest of the society, where rest of the members of the society may subscribe to a different religion (or even may be Atheists).

In our country, if religious beliefs were the basis of our
laws, we would be putting
ourselves back many hundreds of years, and joining the
archaic laws of many countries that make their laws based on
their religion, and condemn people, (many cases being women)
for trying to have a independent life of their own.

We are such a multi cultural country, (and i'm grateful
for that), that it would be political suicide
for any politician to push religious laws as his/her agenda.

But we must always be on guard, as some religions, (those
opposed to abortion)and other laws, will always try to push thru their own agenda.
It is interesting thru out the world, as so many of these
religious laws oppress women, and abortion is one, and it
is amazing that in Iraq, rape is blamed on the woman first,
and she will have a very difficult time in the courts, if
she can ever get permission to get into court before she
is stoned or murdured first, in many cases.

I can't imagine how it would be in this country if abortion
was illegal, and women had to figure out how to end a
pregnancy 'on their own', without any help from the courts,
and also become a criminal by getting the abortion by some
back street butcher, as it used to be, it's amazing to me,
that even in my time as a young woman, it was that way,
and we didn't know it could be any other way, and women
suffered immensely because of it, but did it anyway at
great risk of breaking the law, infection, and sometimes
death.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

Maybe you don't, but anyone with a working brain should. A fetus is a living being, and becomes a human at the moment it is born.

A religious fanatic may know (but then he 'knows' everything, his God tells him everything). Scientists do not know precisely when human life begins. When it come to matters of science and medicine, I prefer to listen to scientists and doctors, rather than listen to Pope or Fundamentalist preachers.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

And eleven or twelve posts in a row does not an expert make.....
Where is Andem's automatic post merge when it's needed??????:lol:
Flooding??? or....Anything to up the post count....

I think Andem got rid of that system (I don't see why, personally I didn't see anything wrong with it).

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

This talking point comes up often, and makes no sense. A host body will employ systems to inhibit parasites, and attempt to get rid of the parasite. A human growing inside it's human mother faces no such pressure, which all other parasites face. To the contrary, the females body changes to protect and nourish the parasite.

Parasitism refers to an interaction that is wholly different from gestation. And more than that, rights are a human construct, and the type of interaction between organisms is meaningless for discussion of what does and does not have rights.

To me, the important point is whether a fetus is a human being from conceptions, as religious zealots claim. They have a point there. If a fetus is the same as a human being from conception, then abortion must be outlawed.

Indeed, if Supreme Court ever declares that fetus is a baby, it is a human being at conception, abortion will automatically become illegal, in the eyes of law it will be no different from murdering a child or murdering an adult. If a fetus is declared a human being, then he will enjoy all the rights that a child does.

Unfortunately for pro lifers, and religious extremists, that is recognized, not by science, not by law, and not by society (and not by many religious leaders as well). And unless and until scientists tell the society unequivocally that fetus is a human being from conception, there is no way society and the courts will believe religious zealots.

When it comes to matters of science, society defers to scientists (and doctors in this case).

 

[TenPenny]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

To me, a fetus is a life form that will develop into a human being, but, I reserve the right for the mother to end that preganancy. It's her choice, period.

And yes, I had to go through that thought process at one time. I was part of a couple who made the decision. I have no regrets about that decision. It was a difficult decision, and the effects of that decision last forever, but that's called being a grown up: you make decisions, and live with the results.

 

[talloola]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

To me, a fetus is a life form that will develop into a human being, but, I reserve the right for the mother to end that preganancy. It's her choice, period.

And yes, I had to go through that thought process at one time. I was part of a couple who made the decision. I have no regrets about that decision. It was a difficult decision, and the effects of that decision last forever, but that's called being a grown up: you make decisions, and live with the results.

Yes, I agree with you, and it doesn't matter to me, if
they call it a human being, a life form, a piece of jelly,
or a blob, in the first three months, I believe the woman
should have every right to cancel the pregnancy, and I
should add, after reading some posts, that even after 3
months, in severe cases, rape etc., and medical problems,
an abortion would be the proper procedure.

Apparantly there are cases where the woman/girl, does not
realize she is pregnant till 4 months into pregnancy or
further, not sure why that would be, continueing periods,
or just fear and not dealing with a horrible experience,
but these cases should be considered for abortion as well.

The woman should be assisted and helped to return to a
normal life, and also given thorough counselling before
making a decision, but left alone to decide for herself.
Abortion certainly isn't for everyone, but the freedom to
make a choice is important, without having to feel she has
done anything wrong, either way.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

To me, a fetus is a life form that will develop into a human being, but, I reserve the right for the mother to end that preganancy. It's her choice, period.

Quite so, a fetus at conception is a potential human being, and not a human being.

 

[gerryh]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

unbelievable, the number of excuses and reasons that can be found to support the murder of a child. No wonder war is no big deal for the majority. In reality, ya's really don't give a rats ass about anyone but yourselves.

 

[talloola]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

unbelievable, the number of excuses and reasons that can be found to support the murder of a child. No wonder war is no big deal for the majority. In reality, ya's really don't give a rats ass about anyone but yourselves.

and just to balance your statement a little, it is unbelievable to me how many posts have 'no' concern at
all for a girl/woman who is pregnant, who has
decided to end the pregnancy, and hardly anyone
gave one thought toward her own wellbeing, her situation, her future, and also the man in the picture
seemed to be nonexistent, as though she had become pregnant
all on her own, and must bare the brunt all alone, as it
was her fault to begin with, and she must behave according
to others evaluation of her.

So many of these pregnancies are young girls, who have
been raped by someone they know, or part of the family.