Tory G8 abortion stance

[L Gilbert]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

Try passing the piece of wisdom to Mr. Gilbert and Sullivan..............:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Who's this Sullivan character?
BTW, you don't have to call me Mr.

 

[Machjo]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

Gerry has a valid point. Read this and this. Here's another: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,253538,00.html

Man, did you see the size of that thing? Just the right size to pitch like a baseball. 22 weeks only? Sure is a legitimate abortion target there. A good skull crushing anyone?

 

[Kreskin]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

I don't care what party it is, very very few want to even touch the issue. I bet it stays status quo for a long time.

Yup, it`s a complete hornet`s nest.

 

[L Gilbert]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

Man, did you see the size of that thing? Just the right size to pitch like a baseball. 22 weeks only? Sure is a legitimate abortion target there.

Nope. That apple is outta the tree. But it seems to drop the age of vialbility down to about 22 weeks.

A good skull crushing anyone?

No thanks. Although the dogs toted a deer skull home and left it for Anna to run over with the lawnmower.

 

[Kreskin]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

i

Gerry has a valid point. Read this and this. Here's another: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,253538,00.html

Except, that life was conceived in vitro by a couple who wanted a child. The religious righteous would ban the procedure if given half a chance. If they had their way, that kid wouldn`t be here under any circumstances.

 

[L Gilbert]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

i

Except, that life was conceived in vitro by a couple who wanted a child. The religious righteous would ban the procedure if given half a chance. If they had their way, that kid wouldn`t be here under any circumstances.

Yeah, there's not much accounting for the thought processes of some religious kooks.
Hey, eannasir, "hisplain this, willya, Lucy"?

 

[gerryh]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

i

Except, that life was conceived in vitro by a couple who wanted a child. The religious righteous would ban the procedure if given half a chance. If they had their way, that kid wouldn`t be here under any circumstances.

:roll:

 

[talloola]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

i

Except, that life was conceived in vitro by a couple who wanted a child. The religious righteous would ban the procedure if given half a chance. If they had their way, that kid wouldn`t be here under any circumstances.

yes, you've got that right kreskin.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

The fetus is a human being but is not a legal person.
You've really got to learn that once and for all. But that is irrelevant when it comes to legal OPINIONS and reality. Reality says a baby lost it's life not a human being or a legal person buut a wee little defenseless baby.

Fetus is not a human being and not a legal person. If fetus is declared a human being, he automatically becomes a legal person.

That is why pro lifers are trying so hard to get fetus declared a human being. If courts declare fetus to be a human being, then abortion will automatically become illegal, it will become tantamount to murder.

Thus ,when blacks were slaves, killing a black 'person' was not considered murder. But once slavery was abolished, it automatically became murder to kill a black person, they didn't need to pass separate laws for that.

It works the same way with a fetus. The day fetus is recognized as a human being is the day all abortion automatically becomes illegal.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

A baby is very much human. Were you human when you were a baby?

Baby is very much human, a fetus isn't.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

It's nonsense to kill babies by changing the meaning to fit convenience.

Abortion does not kill babies.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

They start as goats?

They start as fetus. At some stage, they become human beings. We don't know when.

 

[karrie]

Re: Henry Morgantaler- Saint or Common Criminal?

I'd like to think so too. We were just discussing the statistics and what they might imply, I don't think any value judgment was expressed or implied. I seriously doubt that the justices who struck down the abortion laws were thinking in terms of culling the disadvantaged, it appears to be, assuming the conclusion is correct, an unintended consequence that comes clear only in hindsight.

I'm not in principle a supporter of abortion, the feminist demand I heard so much in my youth, "free abortion on demand," never had any traction with me, it sounded too much like killing inconvenient people. The time to exercise control over your body is before you get pregnant, not after, but things don't always work out that way. And it's also an ethical dilemma I'll never face, I can't get pregnant. Even if I were the father of a fetus a woman wanted to abort and I objected, I think what she wants trumps what I want. I'm not the one who's pregnant, I do not have the right to bend her to my will. I can also see a case that she doesn't have the right to bend me to her will either, but we have to draw a line somewhere, and I draw it this way: the one who had it last calls the shots.

No, I guess it wasn't directly... it was couched with 'it could be argued', and 'I've seen it argued.' But, when someone puts forth what 'could be' argued, without stating that they disagree with the implications, it still comes off as their own argument, even if unfairly.

 

[JLM]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

Fetus is not a human being and not a legal person. If fetus is declared a human being, he automatically becomes a legal person.

.

It's nice to know we not only have a medical expert but a legal one too..............:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

All I can say is the excuses given for abortion parallel stupid excuses for rape.

I was drunk.

I couldn't control myself.

I forgot it was illegal.

She was too hot.

She wanted it.

the all time number one stupid excuse to rape or kill .... "My pills weren't working."

But there is a big difference. Rape is illegal, abortion is not. Rape hurts a human being, abortion doesn't.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

Les, lets use the miscarriage topic and relate it to the right to life argument. Approximately 1 in 300-400 amnio procedures result in miscarriage of viable pregnancies (or perhaps 1 in 200 with a CVS procedure). Would our society allow for a doctor to perform a routine regular examination of a delivered baby whereby by the examination procedure resulted in death of every 1 in 300-400? Of course not. If a fetus had the same rights as any delivered human then they would require protection from more than just abortion. Everything about prenatal care would need to change. If not, it's an admission that there is in fact a big difference between the rights of the born and the unborn.

Quite so, Kreskin. As I have said before, pro life hypocrisy knows no bounds.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

You won't find much common sense when people are arguing about abortion.

It goes the the heart of many people's beliefs, and therefore many people become irrational.

I figure that if people want to have an abortion, they should be permitted to do so. End of story. I don't gussy it up with arguments about when life starts, etc, those arguments, while interesting, have nothing to do with abortion rights. In my opinion.

Quite so. And the reason for this is that if people want to have an abortion, they usually have one, whether it is legal or no. And when there is so much we don't know about an embryo or a fetus, it is sheer absurdity to take somebody's religious opinions as the Gospel truth and then pass laws based upon that, to impose a particular religious philosophy on the rest of the society, whether they want it or not.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

I agree. The 'when does life begin' debate is a red herring and really doesn't have much to do with anything.

Quite so, some people have difficulty grasping simple concepts.

When does life begin? It doesn't.

When does human life begin? We don't know.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

Too bad aborted life couldn't be supported mechanically until reaching full term.

One day it will be, petros. Then the abortion argument will become moot. There will be no need for an abortion if the product of conception can be removed from the womb within a few days of conception, and then the government is prepared to incubate it and then raise the baby, with no cost to the woman. Then there is no inconvenience to the woman and arguement in support of abortion disappears.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

Last I looked, growing an embryo past the age of 14 days in an artificial womb past was illegal. There are tens of thousands of unused embryos. You could rally the conservatives to change that, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Well yes. But as far as I am aware, the embryos cannot be carried to term mechanically, you still need a female womb for that.