Mosque near Ground Zero

[Machjo]

lol ok I see, thanks.

I doubt very much that he'd lost a loved on on 911, yet he's so quick to take away the rights of Muslims to commemorate their loved ones whom they'd lost on 911 the way they see fit, and that with their own money and not even in his country.

Talk about the guile.

 

[Just the Facts]

I was simply asking you to give us the information that you had recently learned from.

OK sorry I missed that point, which certainly didn't come out in your original reply. It was a clip from Robert Spencer in some round table debate. I'll see if I can find it but it was probably from Jihadwatch, but I may have just been browsing youtube. I'll post it shortly.

 

[Just the Facts]

Sounds like your using Jihad as a synonym for proselytism. Christians do it too, and as long as it's not aggressive and that it's done in a respectful manner, I see nothing wrong with it.

Nope, I'm talking about Jihad not proselytizing.

 

[Just the Facts]

Ah, yes, of course. But not all Christian and Jews. More reasonly-minded Christians and Jews could pool their resources together to build a church and a Synagogue to honour those Christians and Jews who died in 9/11. Again, it would be a fitting tribute. They're just angry that Muslims thought of this first for the Muslim victims of 9/11.

By the way, this was a balanced report on this:

It points out not only that Muslims lost loved ones on 9/11 too, but that some of the non-Muslims who lost relatives on 9/11 support the Muslims in this. It would seem that YJ's just out to lunch.

Actually, there was a lot of planning and debate and competitions etc. for memorials. Dividing the victims by religion just never came up for some reason. Interesting you would suggest that.

 

[Machjo]

Nope, I'm talking about Jihad not proselytizing.

So every single Muslim is a terrorist? What about Mohammad Salman (1978 to 11 Sep 2001) (trained paramedic). When he'd witnessed th smoke on his way to work, he'd rushed to the scene to assist. He was killed while going to the aid of the victims of the attacks. Though he was known as a Muslim, you are now saying he was a terrorist, a jihadi unworthy of having his life commemorated by his family and friends as they see fit because it might offend you here in Canada?

His act was truly jihad-al-nafs, and not of the kind you think.

 

[Tonington]

OK sorry I missed that point, which certainly didn't come out in your original reply. It was a clip from Robert Spencer in some round table debate. I'll see if I can find it but it was probably from Jihadwatch, but I may have just been browsing youtube. I'll post it shortly.

That's what a citation is. All I was asking for. Again though, in one of my posts you'll see that the Bible commands that women remain quiet in Church, yet if you step foot in most any Church, you'll find women talking, and in some Churches you'll find women Ministers.

What I'm really asking for is proof that all Muslims follow this school of thought when it comes to Jihad. It's clear to me that not all Muslims follow that school of thought:
http://www.rferl.org/content/Islamic_Scholar_No_Jihad_Against_Noncombatants/2002988.html

 

[Just the Facts]

So every single Muslim is a terrorist?

What's with all the straw men?

 

[Machjo]

Actually, there was a lot of planning and debate and competitions etc. for memorials. Dividing the victims by religion just never came up for some reason. Interesting you would suggest that.

That's not what I was suggesting. They are planning on a Peace Tower, but this mosque is not even going to be built on the site but two blocks away. And the congregation, which itself lost members on 911, decided to build near the site as a symbol of their support for peace.

Yet the OP is offended at this. Just as there will be a common memorial in the form of the Peace Tower on the site, why should it offend us that the family members of the victims might want to build a mosque or other house of worship there? I'm sure it will be more meaningful a memorial for those families than a KFC or a McDonald's.

Who are you to be offended at how they choose to spend their money and commemorate their loved ones?

 

[Just the Facts]

What I'm really asking for is proof that all Muslims follow this school of thought when it comes to Jihad. It's clear to me that not all Muslims follow that school of thought:
http://www.rferl.org/content/Islamic_Scholar_No_Jihad_Against_Noncombatants/2002988.html

Another straw man. I never said that. Just because most Catholics use birth control doesn't negate the fact that the Catholic Church teaches against birth control.

Of course not all Muslims practice violent Jihad. I've never said they do, and I've never heard anyone else say they do. Sheesh.

 

[Machjo]

What's with all the straw men?

Maybe I misunderstood you. So, are you offended at the building of the mosque near ground zero?

 

[Just the Facts]

Who are you to be offended at how they choose to spend their money and commemorate their loved ones?

OK I'll remember that attitude next time a Muslim is offended.

 

[Machjo]

OK I'll remember that attitude next time a Muslim is offended.

Offended at what? I have not yet heard anything about them saying they don't want to see churches or Synagogues near Ground Zero.

 

[Machjo]

On the other hand, I'd be rightfully offended to find others to be offended at how I chose to commemorate a loved one of mine.

 

[Just the Facts]

Maybe I misunderstood you. So, are you offended at the building of the mosque near ground zero?

I don't believe for a moment that it's intended as a memorial to Muslims who died on 9/11, nor do I believe that it's intended as an outreach center for religious dialog to build bridges between Muslims and other Americans. I do believe that it is intended as an act of supremacy and as an icon to the "victory" of 9/11.

Do some research on the writings of imam Rauf who is spearheading the project, and you will see why. Focus on his Arabic media releases, not the English ones. Mysterious incongruency between the two. Hmmm.

 

[Machjo]

I don't believe for a moment that it's intended as a memorial to Muslims who died on 9/11, nor do I believe that it's intended as an outreach center for religious dialog to build bridges between Muslims and other Americans. I do believe that it is intended as an act of supremacy and as an icon to the "victory" of 9/11.

Do some research on the writings of imam Rauf who is spearheading the project, and you will see why. Focus on his Arabic media releases, not the English ones. Mysterious incongruency between the two. Hmmm.

Of course Muslims engage in proselytism as Christians do, and what's the issue with that if it's done with respect and dignity. You seem to be offended at the building of a mosque there in total ignorance of the fact that many Muslims lost their lives on that day too, and they have just as much of a right to be remembered by their family and friends as any other.

 

[Machjo]

And if they think building a mosque near ground zero as a symbol of their outreach to the rest of the community, then I see zilch wrong with is, and seeing that tht congregation lost members on that day too, it has at least as much of a right as any otehr church to build near there, no?

 

[Machjo]

In short you seem to be suggesting that the Muslim families of the victims of 911 ought to be sensitive to what people might think on the other side of the continent if they built a mosque there.

 

[Just the Facts]

And if they think building a mosque near ground zero as a symbol of their outreach to the rest of the community, then I see zilch wrong with is, and seeing that tht congregation lost members on that day too, it has at least as much of a right as any otehr church to build near there, no?

Sure, I would agree 100%, if it were true. But is that the case? Have you checked out Imam Rauf yet? Here's a start:

http://thewestislamandsharia.blogspot.com/2010/05/ground-zero-imam-faisal-rauf-i-dont.html

 

[Just the Facts]

In short you seem to be suggesting that the Muslim families of the victims of 911 ought to be sensitive to what people might think on the other side of the continent if they built a mosque there.

:?: Sorry I don't see how you arrive at that. However, please do not bother explaining. Let's just let it go.

 

[Ron in Regina]

If a mosque cannot be built there, then a Target or KFC will somehow be more respectful of the people who died there?

What about a multi-denominational place of worship that also serves fried chicken?
Would that make everyone happy? I would go to that if it was close to my home.

Is chicken on the Happy list for Moslems, Jews, & Christians? Could there also be
a salad bar? Maybe make it Buffet style too? That would even make it better.