Tory G8 abortion stance

[ironsides]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

You ducked the issue and those weren't options. The option is to watch the baby die or force the mother to give breast milk. Do you think the law will force her to for this already born baby?

You guys seem to completely miss what the real issue is. It's a legal rights issue that focuses on who has control of the mother's body. Her or someone else. It has nothing to do with a definition of when life begins.

The mother has control of over her body. If the baby needs milk that she will not provide it must come from another source.

 

[JLM]

Re: Henry Morgantaler- Saint or Common Criminal?

Yeah, I've seen the argument that the drop in the crime rate over the last generation or so is due to abortions being readily and legally available, fewer unwanted children meaning fewer maladjusted adults. I dunno that it's true, but it sounds plausible.

Which makes "statistics" look even more unreliable..........:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[DurkaDurka]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

Yeah, but Gerry makes sense, Durka doesn't........:lol::lol:



............

Keep preaching on that Soapbox, JLM. I see you started another abortion thread, how original of you.

 

[TenPenny]

Re: Henry Morgantaler- Saint or Common Criminal?

He's not a saint. He's not a criminal.

He worked hard to ensure that women have access to abortion, which is a good thing. But it doesn't make him a saint. It also doesn't make him a criminal. Just a medical guy who fought for what he thought was right.

Yeah, I've seen the argument that the drop in the crime rate over the last generation or so is due to abortions being readily and legally available, fewer unwanted children meaning fewer maladjusted adults. I dunno that it's true, but it sounds plausible.

I remember reading that in 'Freakonomics', where a link could be shown between access to abortion and the drop in crime rates. It's an interesting notion, might have some validity, certainly makes a person think, though.

 

[gerryh]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

You ducked the issue and those weren't options. The option is to watch the baby die or force the mother to give breast milk. Do you think the law will force her to for this already born baby?

You guys seem to completely miss what the real issue is. It's a legal rights issue that focuses on who has control of the mother's body. Her or someone else. It has nothing to do with a definition of when life begins.

:roll: The FACTS are that the stupid bitch gave up her exclusive right when she got her useless ass pregnant. Now, like many other "adults", she has more important things she is responsible for then her own selfish self.

 

[karrie]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

any human breast milk should do. The baby is removed from the mothers custody (preferably permanently) and either bottle fed using breast milk or a surogate is used for breast feeding.

exactly. Once born, moms are interchangeable. No woman is THE ONLY woman who can raise any single child, despite how we might like to think so.

lets stay to the point, and not make up your own endings
to this story, I'm just trying to figure out what is legal.

Is there an answer Kreskin?

Why stick to an imaginary point in a real topic?

 

[karrie]

Re: Henry Morgantaler- Saint or Common Criminal?

Yeah, I've seen the argument that the drop in the crime rate over the last generation or so is due to abortions being readily and legally available, fewer unwanted children meaning fewer maladjusted adults. I dunno that it's true, but it sounds plausible.

that argument kind of falls apart when abortion rates have dropped more than crime rates have I think. It implies education is the biggest factor as far as I can see.

I do not agree with using abortions as birth control. Aborting a child you could carry for 9 months and adopt out, is never excusable to me. I think society has royally ****ed up the way young girls see life, when we preach to them that it ends with a pregnancy, when we perpetuate the idea that the worst thing that could happen to your household is a child coming home pregnant. It is a huge disservice that we have visited upon our modern culture.

Henry Morgantaler has worked within that culture to end the deaths of women and girls who bought into the fear and the patriarchal bull**** regarding their bodies. Does that make him a saint? No. A sinner? My gut doesn't think so. It just makes him a typical human, working within a flawed culture.

 

[Curiosity]

Re: morning after pill

The discussions today led me to look-up article about 'the morning
after pill', which seems like a good choice after unprotected sex,
to prevent a pregnancy from occuring.

It can be taken up to 72 hours after intercourse.

It is not for everyone, as there could be a allergic reaction,
but seems majority of women could take it.

It would prevent a woman from having to make the decision to abort
, and would prevent
a woman from having to go through with a pregnancy she did not want,
if she did not want to abort, and abortion is a traumatic situation
for a woman, nothing simple at all, but is her decision which way to go,
seems to me the morning after pill would be the answer in most cases.

I have not know anyone who took this pill, so anyone familiar with this
procedure should enlighten all of us.



This is not an abortion pill, but a pregnancy prevention according to the article.
It prevents ovulation, and it prevents fertilization of the egg.

Talloola - what a refreshing thought to read this morning

While the whole contraception world is busy offering women choice - preplanning, even to the point of "catastrophic planning" - as might be the case in rape or unwanted sexual activity, it gives choice to women far easier on the decision itself than the sad world of abortion procedure.

I hope one day all women will have the ultimate choice - to live a secure life in being the decision-maker over her own body and reproduction - because while abortion has advanced us, to many it still remains an answer with "attachments".

Nice topic - I hope we hear from the group men and women....this may be the
solution to some very raw moments in a woman's (or couple's) life.

 

[karrie]

Re: morning after pill

I'm starting to think people really ought to have been born with an 'on/off' valve on their ovaries. lol.

Preventing fertilization and implantation is a much preferred method, but I still have nagging worries about the health of women resorting to this very often.

 

[JLM]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

:roll: The FACTS are that the stupid bitch gave up her exclusive right when she got her useless ass pregnant. Now, like many other "adults", she has more important things she is responsible for then her own selfish self.

One thing about you, Gerry, no one can accuse you of sugar coating the unvarnished truth. More people should be like that these days. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[Machjo]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

One thing about you, Gerry, no one can accuse you of sugar coating the unvarnished truth. More people should be like that these days. :lol::lol::lol::lol:

They are in Parliament. Even primary school teachers are ashamed to have their kids listen to a session.:lol:

 

[TenPenny]

Re: Henry Morgantaler- Saint or Common Criminal?

I think we can do without children born from drug-addled parents with fetal alcohol syndrome, dumped into the adoption world. I think many people should have been encouraged not to carry their babies to term, if all they were going to do was give birth to a child suffering personality disorders because the parents were too stupid to look after themselves and the child while pregnant, and then give that child up for adoption to some unsuspecting couple.

That's likely an unpopular opinion, but it's as valid an opinion as any other.

 

[JLM]

Re: Henry Morgantaler- Saint or Common Criminal?

I think we can do without children born from drug-addled parents with fetal alcohol syndrome, dumped into the adoption world. I think many people should have been encouraged not to carry their babies to term, if all they were going to do was give birth to a child suffering personality disorders because the parents were too stupid to look after themselves and the child while pregnant, and then give that child up for adoption to some unsuspecting couple.

That's likely an unpopular opinion, but it's as valid an opinion as any other.

A valid opinion no doubt but very tough to draw a line on. The downside is it might encourage woman to abuse themselves if abortion was an acceptable solution to the problem. ONce you enable something, you are in a sense condoning it.

 

[Curiosity]

Re: morning after pill

Hi Karrie

Do you refer to health in prevention of fertilization and implantation as opposed to... abortion? Or continued gestation to birth?

 

[petros]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

 

[Sаbine]

Re: morning after pill

Preventing fertilization and implantation is a much preferred method, but I still have nagging worries about the health of women resorting to this very often.

Agreed. High doses of hormones don't do any good in this case. I've known a girl who resorted to emergency contraception twice and got her thyroid gland increased in a few weeks after she took her second morning after pill. She believed it's because of this pill.

 

[AnnaG]

Re: morning after pill

We have been using contraception since I had our youngest daughter (that's about 2 decades ago) and we've never had an oops. If it ever did happen that a condom failed or something, I would not hesitate to take a MA pill.

Morning-after pill - MayoClinic.com

The morning-after pill

Emergency Contraception (Morning After Pill) - Planned Parenthood

 

[AnnaG]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

any and all supporters of abortion are abortionists. The same blood is on their hands as is on the hands that actually chopped the baby into peices to expel him/her.

That'd be every single person in Canada of voting age. How does it feel?

 

[talloola]

Re: morning after pill

I'm starting to think people really ought to have been born with an 'on/off' valve on their ovaries. lol.

Preventing fertilization and implantation is a much preferred method, but I still have nagging worries about the health of women resorting to this very often.

the article also stated 'that' they do not recommend this
method often at all, just for the worrisome time where
a mistake has been made, unprotected, but definitely not
as a birth control method at all, then they go on to give
all forms of birth control, the percent of safety with each
one, etc.

Agreed. High doses of hormones don't do any good in this case. I've known a girl who resorted to emergency contraception twice and got her thyroid gland increased in a few weeks after she took her second morning after pill. She believed it's because of this pill.

the article also stated that in 'some' cases a women will
have to take a second pill, eg. if first pill has caused
nausia and vomiting, (not common, but happens), but they
said only one pill is recommended at one time, but I
suppose compared to pregnancy or abortion, if the women
is very worried about either one, it is still
an avenue to go down to prevent a pregnancy.

 

[AnnaG]

Re: What rights should a fetus have?

Fetus is just that, a blob of tissue. We don't know at what stage it becomes human life, but certainly it is not at conception. That is a religious view, not a scientific view.

Fetuses have human characteristics. Fetuses are viable after about 28 weeks. I'd suggest that you follow you own rule of thumb and accept that a child is a child when it can survive outside the womb. Fetuses look human (or at least primates) after about 10 weeks.
BTW, since when are geneticists not scientists and issue religious opinion?