Israel 'attacks' Gaza aid fleet

[Colpy]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

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From what I've read in the news, literature and from what I've watched in documentaries I have formed the opinion that Israel's crimes are much worse and more devastating, cruel and callous.. Not just against muslims but against journalists and even americans, the attack on the uss liberty for instance.

You should read up on the case of the USS Liberty........you will find that the case for an intentional attack by the Israelis is flimsy at best...like WHY?????.....and that it is quite clear that the Israelis thought they were attacking an Egyptian gunboat.....a series of errors in the fog of war.

I suggest Six Days of War by Michael Oren.

I just despise the mindless support for Israel by some of the people on here. Israel is pretty much a terrorist country and no reason for which it should be supported. They're blowing up children ffs, you'd think that would silence most of the western support for Israel with that fact alone.
I see their crimes they've committed much worse than the crimes committed by muslims against israel.

As far as muslims stoning people to death,
I don't agree with sharia law, i'm not a muslim. frankly i think it's primitive.
but what theocracies aren't primitive .

It's not like I'm saying muslims aren't committing atrocities themselves or advocating them.

I'm just saying Israel isn't a perfect nation with a halo over its head who are being bullied by the big bad muslims. (some people really think this)

I certainly don't think that Israel is perfect....far from it. but it IS a western, democratic, secular state in which the Arab minority enjoys extensive (although not in fact equal) rights.....Arabs in Israel vote, go to university, indeed teach in university, practise their religion, Arabs have even served on the Israeli Supreme Court....

as for Jews in any of the Arab countries around Israel???? Well........

It seems to me when picking a side (as we are doing) one could do worse than use this question: Would you rather be an Arab in Israel, or a Jew in ANY of the countries that are Israel's enemies?.........doesn't take a genius to answer THAT one!

Israel proper is an island of relative sanity in a sea of Islamic and Baa'thist lunacy.

That is why they deserve our support.

As for the "refugees" (What a JOKE!)....yes, 62 years ago some 750,000 Arabs left what is now Israel for a number of reasons.....some driven out by Jewish terror groups, some encouraged to leave by the Arab nations, some simply fleeing war as refugees do.......but what you RARELY hear about is the 800,000 Jews expelled by the Arab nations at about the same time. Funny though.....there is no Jewish refugee problem.......

because Israel took them in, and they have long since ceased being refugees.

Meanwhile, the Arab nations have used the so-called Palestinians as a club against Israel, a simple tool, a ready pool of attackers to send against the Jews......the Arabs have undercut the Palestinians, abandoned them in every sense except as a handy weapon....how quickly do you think Israel would return the West Bank to Jordan, and Gaza to Egypt???? IN A SECOND!!!! The truth is those nations don't WANT them back! Too much trouble......

As for blowing up children, yes, that happens in war.....and it is a travesty, a tragedy, awful.

the difference is Iarael tries to avoid killing children.

the Islamists TARGET them. And hide behind them.

 

[petros]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

as for Jews in any of the Arab countries around Israel???? Well........

There are few Jews but there are ****loads of pissed off Christians in the surrounding nations who attack Israel all the same as the Muzzie not because of faith but over justice.

 

[AnnaG]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

I just despise the mindless support for Israel by some of the people on here.

Me, too.

Israel is pretty much a terrorist country and no reason for which it should be supported. They're blowing up children ffs, you'd think that would silence most of the western support for Israel with that fact alone.

Yeah. I don't quite understand supporting any state that kills civilians needlessly.

I see their crimes they've committed much worse than the crimes committed by muslims against israel.

Military/terrorist killing of civilians is equally despicable in my view regardless of who it is that does it.

As far as muslims stoning people to death,
I don't agree with sharia law, i'm not a muslim. frankly i think it's primitive.
but what theocracies aren't primitive .

Islamic extremists do nasty things because they think it is demanded by their religion. I don't care if it is according to their law, done by amateurs such as in the case of the teen girl, or whatever excuse is given. To me it is no worse or better than a Palestinian, Israeli, Syrian, Sudanese, Taliban, etc lobbing a mortar into a group of civilians except for the quantitative factor.

It's not like I'm saying muslims aren't committing atrocities themselves or advocating them.

I'm just saying Israel isn't a perfect nation with a halo over its head who are being bullied by the big bad muslims. (some people really think this)

I agree. But you said one side is worse than the other and IMO, killing, maiming, and mangling civilians is just plain deplorable regardless of who does it.

 

[petros]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

Everybody must get stoned!

For the third Sabbath in a row, thousands of ultra-orthodox Jews gathered on Bar-Ilan Street, a main Jerusalem thoroughfare, to protest driving on the Sabbath and even to throw stones at passing cars. One policeman was injured in the head and seven ultra-orthodox residents were arrested. In addition to throwing stones at cars being driven on the Sabbath, past violent acts committed by ultra-orthodox Jews in an effort to influence how secular Jews dress, eat and observe the Sabbath include slashing tires on the cars of women not dressed modestly, physically attacking women not dressed modestly, causing damage to restaurants and stores with non-kosher food and burning Israeli flags.

 

[Colpy]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

Quote Colpy Yep....the Israelis should just line up quietly for the gas chambers....Hezbollah's Nasrallah once stated he wished all Jews would emigrate to Israel so they could all be killed in one place......that didn't happen, so they blew up a Jewish social centre in Buenos Aires, fer crying out loud.

Hamas desires the destruction of Israel and the murder of all Jews therein......the attacks on Gaza, which Israel unilaterally TURNED OVER to the Palestinians (only to have it become a staging area for attacks) ....anyway, 22 days of attacks on the most densely populated area on earth, by one of the most advanced militaries on earth, killed 1416 people at MOST (the Palestinian estimate, the Israeli estimate is 200 lower) How many of those were militants is very much in debate, but certainly a very significant number were.......the point is Israel HAD the right to defend herself against rocket attack and hostile incursion....she did so, and the low casualty rate is evidence of their exceptional RESTRAINT!!!!! Accusations of war crimes are ludicrous.

Nasrallah may have said that, may not have said it. Don't post hearsay, please back up with legitimate sources. And it was never proven Hezbollah bombed the jewish social centre in Buenos Aires, they are suspected.

I feel like I'm reading something similar to nazi propaganda from the 1930's :smile: . I don't think a single thing is true but I would have a rebuttal if you care to actually back these up with legitimate sources, otherwise I can't take it serious.

You feel that way because you have been listening to proto-Nazi propaganda for so long you can't tell the difference... Might I point out the Nazis are the ones that LIKE killing Jews??

On Hezbollah:
CAMERA: Hassan Nasrallah: In His Own Words

And who do you think DID blow up the Israeli embassy and the community centre in Argentina?

On Hamas:
Hamas Charter

Gaza Casualties:
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Amnesty details Gaza 'war crimes'

RESTRAINT....considering they could have unleashed total war and sent the Gazan population streaming across the border into Egypt.......after all, with the technology of 65 years ago, we killed 100,000 in Tokyo in a single night, and at least 35,000 in Dresdan in a single night.

In light of that, accusations of war crimes are counter-productive.

 

[gerryh]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

RESTRAINT....considering they could have unleashed total war and sent the Gazan population streaming across the border into Egypt.......after all, with the technology of 65 years ago, we killed 100,000 in Tokyo in a single night, and at least 35,000 in Dresdan in a single night.

In light of that, accusations of war crimes are counter-productive.

I do agree that in light of the allied atrocities during WWII, the Isreali's AND Hamas are rank amatuers.;

 

[clutch]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

You should read up on the case of the USS Liberty........you will find that the case for an intentional attack by the Israelis is flimsy at best...like WHY?????.....and that it is quite clear that the Israelis thought they were attacking an Egyptian gunboat.....a series of errors in the fog of war.

I suggest Six Days of War by Michael Oren.

did you seriously just recommened me a book on the uss liberty by the israeli ambassador to the united states? you couldn't get any more bias. i'd like to try and read from a neutral source if possible.

I certainly don't think that Israel is perfect....far from it. but it IS a western, democratic, secular state in which the Arab minority enjoys extensive (although not in fact equal) rights.....Arabs in Israel vote, go to university, indeed teach in university, practise their religion, Arabs have even served on the Israeli Supreme Court....


as for Jews in any of the Arab countries around Israel???? Well........

It seems to me when picking a side (as we are doing) one could do worse than use this question: Would you rather be an Arab in Israel, or a Jew in ANY of the countries that are Israel's enemies?.........doesn't take a genius to answer THAT one!

ok , the jewish people are the most powerful and richest ethnic group today and have an entire state. your insinuation that they're being oppressed is funny to say the least. they don't need your support.

today muslims are being killed by the hundreds of thousands, slowly genocided in palestine, and economically and socially marginalized in western countries.

As for blowing up children, yes, that happens in war.....and it is a travesty, a tragedy, awful.

the difference is Iarael tries to avoid killing children.

the Islamists TARGET them. And hide behind them.

haha. israel carelessly bombed and poisoned the lebanese people, they aren't trying to avoid killing children.

as far as islamists actually targetting and hiding behind them, i don't know about that. but i'm betting there is little to no truth to it.

 

[petros]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

the difference is Iarael tries to avoid killing children.

Really? Ever heard things from the POV of a Palestinian child?

Should children be taken as POWs? What age should be minimum age for military courts and inprisonment?

 

[The Old Medic]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

What can you say? There are so many anti-semites among the left wingers, that despise Israel and the Jews, because they came up with a code of conduct that is used throughout the Christian world. It is terrible in their eyes to actually say that screwing your neighbors wife is wrong; that stealing anything that isn't nailed down is wrong; that being expected to actually look out for the poor and oppressed is the right way to go through life.

God help any country that bases its laws on the Bible, and Israel is on top of that list.

Besides, it truly is the leftists that support the Arabs for their oil.

 

[clutch]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

I really don't belong to any political group, i think it's stupid. but right wingers from what i've observed are generally whacko and borderline insane, some actually are insane.

 

[petros]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

YouTube - Israeli Spokesman "Hamas killed Palestinian children to make us look bad"

 

[Colpy]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

did you seriously just recommened me a book on the uss liberty by the israeli ambassador to the united states? you couldn't get any more bias. i'd like to try and read from a neutral source if possible.

ok , the jewish people are the most powerful and richest ethnic group today and have an entire state. your insinuation that they're being oppressed is funny to say the least. they don't need your support.

today muslims are being killed by the hundreds of thousands, slowly genocided in palestine, and economically and socially marginalized in western countries.




haha. israel carelessly bombed and poisoned the lebanese people, they aren't trying to avoid killing children.

as far as islamists actually targetting and hiding behind them, i don't know about that. but i'm betting there is little to no truth to it.

Michael Oren is a highly respected historian as well. His book is on the entire war, and strikes me as balanced, although not neutral. It is about the only place you will get the story of the USS Liberty that is not the one promoted by lunatic conspiracy theorists. You should read before you debunk. Oh, you might get it just by searching USS Liberty on these threads....God knows I fought this out in detail before!

WHERE did I say the Jews were oppressed????????? :roll:

As I pointed out before, the conflict between Israel and the Arab States has cost a maximum of 135,000 lives in 62 years.....including both sides. In addition, that estimate includes a completely unsubstantiated figure of 50,000 civilians killed by the Israelis. So, Israel has killed 120,000 Arabs.........in 4 all-out wars, dozens of incursions, retaliations, invasions, battles, what-have-you. In two of those wars they were attacked by the armies of several countries..........pure self-defense.

If the Israelis are attempting genocide, they are doing an extremely poor job of it. Considering the Rwandan Hutus managed to kill 800,000 Tutsuis in five months....with machetes.

The denial of Israel's obvious restraint, the inability to see both sides, and especially the references to the "richest ethnic group", 'genocide in Palestine" and "poison" in Lebanon are making me very suspicious........

 

[petros]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

YouTube - OMG! One Honest Israeli!!!!!!! Yonatan Schapira!

 

[clutch]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

The Israeli's would love to kill 800,000 muslims in five months. They'd love nothing more to kill them all. The problem with that is they're a suppose to be a civilized country with strong ties with the U.S. , not a primitive african country. If they make a blatant attempt at genocide they'll have a hard time keeping allies with the americans and the western world.

 

[Colpy]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

The Israeli's would love to kill 800,000 muslims in five months. They'd love nothing more to kill them all. The problem with that is they're a suppose to be a civilized country with strong ties with the U.S. , not a primitive african country. If they make a blatant attempt at genocide they'll have a hard time keeping allies with the americans and the western world.

Oh I see!

They are genocidal in their HEARTS!

Thank you for explaining that to me, and let me be first off the mark in proposing they all be dragged off to the Hague in chains!

(sarcasm alert)

Man, you are reaching!!!!!

Israel has nuclear weapons....at least 200 of them, and built the first in about 1969. They did not use them in the Yom Kippur War in 1973, despite the fact they were attacked and came very close to losing. They don't use them now, despite the fact they could solve most of their problems with half a dozen hits. The Conventional Wisdom is that the weapons are kept in a manner that would require a significant period of time to arm and deploy them, simply to prevent a hot-headed reply to military set-backs or chemical/biological attack.

Doesn't sound genocidal to me.

Sounds like restraint.

 

[petros]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

Who has Israel sold nukes tech to?

If they are so tight with there nukes why was there discussion between Apartheid South Africa and Israel over nukes sales.

What the **** would South Africa do with nukes? Protection from whom?

 

[MHz]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

They don't use them now, despite the fact they could solve most of their problems with half a dozen hits.

8O
That would seem to be more deaths than they suffered in WWII (using the largest numbers available). That 'solution' makes them much worse than the Nazis. Let me guess every bomb on a center that has a very high Muslim population. Perhaps you should join the 'Waiting for Armageddon' crowd.

BTW, who do you think will become their enemy once 'the West' helps them destroy all Arabs and Muslims in the world?

Who has Israel sold nukes tech to?

If they are so tight with there nukes why was there discussion between Apartheid South Africa and Israel over nukes sales.

What the **** would South Africa do with nukes? Protection from whom?

Probably just there to protect the diamonds.

 

[Colpy]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

8O
That would seem to be more deaths than they suffered in WWII (using the largest numbers available). That 'solution' makes them much worse than the Nazis. Let me guess every bomb on a center that has a very high Muslim population. Perhaps you should join the 'Waiting for Armageddon' crowd.

BTW, who do you think will become their enemy once 'the West' helps them destroy all Arabs and Muslims in the world?

Well, I doubt each of a half-dozen nukes would kill a million people.....but that is irrelevant anyway....my point was that the Israelis have NOT used them, that they keep them stored "cold", that they did not even use them when they were on the brink of national destruction in the 1973 war.

The only way I could see the Israelis using the weapon is in retaliation for a chemcal, biological, or nuclear attack.....and the nukes exist largely as a deterent to such attacks.

No, I'm not waiting for the Final Battle...

Who has Israel sold nukes tech to?

If they are so tight with there nukes why was there discussion between Apartheid South Africa and Israel over nukes sales.

What the **** would South Africa do with nukes? Protection from whom?

The entire flap about Israel selling to South Africa is based on papers that show South Africa requested that they talk about selling nukes..........Israel did not even reply, or at least there is no evidence that Israel replied, despite the existence of the documents

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

What can you say? There are so many anti-semites among the left wingers, that despise Israel and the Jews, because they came up with a code of conduct that is used throughout the Christian world. It is terrible in their eyes to actually say that screwing your neighbors wife is wrong; that stealing anything that isn't nailed down is wrong; that being expected to actually look out for the poor and oppressed is the right way to go through life.

God help any country that bases its laws on the Bible, and Israel is on top of that list.

Besides, it truly is the leftists that support the Arabs for their oil.

You are full of it old fella. Israel was and is primarily an expression of the left, read some history Medic. The christian world has been since day one a many fathered mongrel of every dogmatic system before it. Even then there was nothing new under the sun. The term anti-semite has lost its power, now it only burns those who wield it like the insturment of deceit it always was. The only list Israel is on top of is not a place that any but the lost would relish.

 

[clutch]

Re: How About Keeping The Rest Of Us Safe From Israel?

Oh I see!

They are genocidal in their HEARTS!

Thank you for explaining that to me, and let me be first off the mark in proposing they all be dragged off to the Hague in chains!

(sarcasm alert)

Man, you are reaching!!!!!

Israel has nuclear weapons....at least 200 of them, and built the first in about 1969. They did not use them in the Yom Kippur War in 1973, despite the fact they were attacked and came very close to losing. They don't use them now, despite the fact they could solve most of their problems with half a dozen hits. The Conventional Wisdom is that the weapons are kept in a manner that would require a significant period of time to arm and deploy them, simply to prevent a hot-headed reply to military set-backs or chemical/biological attack.

Doesn't sound genocidal to me.

Sounds like restraint.

Yes, since israel's inception who knows the amount of palestinians have been slaughtered, most of them innocent. of course it's genocide. maybe not on a large scale like the holocaust, but it's by definition a genocide.

I wouldn't say it's because Israel has great restraint that they haven't used the nuke. It's simply being smart. The world would condemn them. Pakistan and India both have nukes and have been on sour relations for many years now and they've never used them either.