Arizona's Immigration Law

JLM

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He didn't even look at the dates 2009 - 2010 of the stats I provided. Oh well.

I guess that's just one example of why he keeps confusing statistics with facts. :lol::lol::lol:

I get such a charge out of people who keep quoting crime "statistics". It's the crimes that happen to you that are the ones that count. If someone mugs me and robs me as I leave my house do I really care what is written down on a piece of paper somewhere?
 

SirJosephPorter

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You will keep repeating your side trips until you really believe, but no one else will... but keep moving the goal posts ...you're good at it...
But you will never admit loosing your earlier argument that it was racial profiling and Hispanic (illegal at that)harassment.

That is only your opinion, we have already discussed it before. There is a very real possibility of racial profiling. You may be sure that the police are not going too ask that blue eyed blonde or that white man in a three piece suit for identification, they are going to ask Hispanic man or woman.

Anyway we have already discussed this point before, I don't see any point in going over the same ground again. But fear of racial profiling is very real, most Hispanics think that they will be racially profiled.

Anyway, the main argument by conservatives, the main justification for the law was this horrendous, unprecedented crime wave launched by Hispanics. Now we have seen that crime in Arizona is at 43 year low, so what is the justification, what is the need for the law? Does law enforcement in Arizona have plenty of free time on its hand, the cops have nothing else to do except to play cards at the police station?
 

ironsides

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Daily Crime figures and where the crime occured. Pick any month you want.

Arizona Crime Search - Crime In Arizona - Phoenix Crime Search - azcentral.com

I guess that's just one example of why he keeps confusing statistics with facts. :lol::lol::lol:

I get such a charge out of people who keep quoting crime "statistics". It's the crimes that happen to you that are the ones that count. If someone mugs me and robs me as I leave my house do I really care what is written down on a piece of paper somewhere?

Must never really get out, not to many I known that live in a walled community. Your right, who cares what stats say if it is you being robbed. :lol:
 

CDNBear

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More on topic: Earlier in this thread some others and myself had a long discussion about whether being an illegal immigrant in the US is really a crime. It isn't, of course.
Unless used in one of it's multiple meanings, as Petros noted for you as well.

And it has nothing to do with the topic, it's you deviating because you can't argue the Bill. As you proved when you ignored the challenge to do so.

If more proof is needed for this, one can check out the 1958 US Supreme Court case United States v. Cores, which is a ruling regarding alien crewman of ships and planes. In the process of ruling on this slightly unrelated case, the Court (found in Footnote 6 of the decision) draws a clear distinction between illegal entry into the US and illegal presence in the US, the former being criminal and latter civil.

Source: UNITED STATES V. CORES, 356 U. S. 405 :: Volume 356 :: 1958 :: Full Text :: US Supreme Court Cases from Justia & Oyez


This ruling was tested in more recent times back in August 2007, when the Kansas Court of Appeals used the decision to repeat that being an illegal immigrant is not a crime. And a few US right-wing blogs such as WorldNetDaily...

Court rules: Illegal aliens not really 'illegal'

...NewsBusters...

Kansas Court: Illegal Immigrants Not Really Illegal; Media Outcry Pending | NewsBusters.org

...and Sweetness and Light...

KS Court: Illegal Presence In US Not A Crime | Sweetness & Light


... threw a minor fit over it.


I've been searching to see if the Kansas Court of Appeals decision was appealed to the Kansas Supreme Court, but there's no record of the case in their list of decisions.

Kansas Judicial Branch - Cases and Opinions - Kansas Supreme Court Case Name List, Cases Beginning State v.



If that's accurate, then the ruling stands. In the State of Kansas, it's even more directly clarified that being an illegal immigrant is not a crime.
You may want to forward all that to the INS. I don't make US Immigration laws.

There is no logic like Liberal logic:roll:
If you can't baffle them with brilliance..................................
Bingo, and you notice that they can't argue the law either, lol.

So, that law is Arizona is pretty awful, isn't it? Just an invitation racial profiling.
No proof, just blathering, sidetracking and deviating, lol.

Read and don't blindly follow Liberal propaganda.....I'm not in the mood to play ring around the rosie with you ......Cheers
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf
I'll second that.

You will keep repeating your side trips until you really believe, but no one else will... but keep moving the goal posts ...you're good at it...
But you will never admit loosing your earlier argument that it was racial profiling and Hispanic (illegal at that)harassment.
I know your type when you can't win one way you try another way...
So stick to one story and one topic the "Arizona immigration Law" ..any side trip you take to score a point is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the topic in question except in your own mind...which is why I keep re-posting the law , until you finally read it and admit you're wrong...which in itself is completely against your nature:roll:
That too.
 

DaSleeper

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I guess that's just one example of why he keeps confusing statistics with facts. :lol::lol::lol:

I get such a charge out of people who keep quoting crime "statistics". It's the crimes that happen to you that are the ones that count. If someone mugs me and robs me as I leave my house do I really care what is written down on a piece of paper somewhere?
It's not so much that the only stats he believes are the one he finds because they fit the news rules he makes up as he goes along, but his reading only what he want he wants to see...
When one runs out of arguments.....bring out statistics
 

JLM

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It's not so much that the only stats he believes are the one he finds because they fit the news rules he makes up as he goes along, but his reading only what he want he wants to see...

Desperate people resort to desperate measures.................:lol::lol::lol:
 

DaSleeper

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Desperate people resort to desperate measures.................:lol::lol::lol:
He reminds me of a guy playing draw 3 Solitaire who when he comes to an impasse, proceeds to shuffle the cards in his hand....:smile:
Ain't fooling nobody but himself...
The strangest thing is.....he might actually believe that he's winning that way:lol::lol::lol:
 

CDNBear

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He reminds me of a guy playing draw 3 Solitaire who when he comes to an impasse, proceeds to shuffle the cards in his hand....:smile:
Ain't fooling nobody but himself...
The strangest thing is.....he might actually believe that he's winning that way:lol::lol::lol:
Might?
 

JLM

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He reminds me of a guy playing draw 3 Solitaire who when he comes to an impasse, proceeds to shuffle the cards in his hand....:smile:
Ain't fooling nobody but himself...
The strangest thing is.....he might actually believe that he's winning that way:lol::lol::lol:

That analogy pretty well hits the nail on the head..............:lol::lol:
 

SirJosephPorter

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Daily Crime figures and where the crime occured. Pick any month you want.

Arizona Crime Search - Crime In Arizona - Phoenix Crime Search - azcentral.com



Must never really get out, not to many I known that live in a walled community.
That does not give crime statistics and what has been happening to crime over the years, ironsides. In the website you gave, you have to pick a city and it tells you where in the city crimes have been committed.

Big deal, how is that relevant to anything? What I am talking about is the crime rate; statistics tell us that crime rate in Arizona is at a 47 year low. You haven’t posted anything to contradict that, mainly because you can’t, nothing exists to contradict that.

I fail to see how the website which gives crime statistics of any particular city is relevant. Statistics tell us that crime rate in Arizona has been dropping for decades now, has been the lowest in 47 years. While that may not convince conservatives (but then nothing will convince them), that is good enough for me.

This tells me that Republicans set about to manufacture a crises, that with Hitler type, Goebbels type propaganda, they managed to convince Arizona public (which may be gullible to start with) that crime rate in Arizona is at an all time high ,when in fact it is at a 47 year low. Then they passed the racist, xenophobic law.

Your right, who cares what stats say if it is you being robbed. :lol:
You mean who cares what the stats say when they interfere with one’s prejudices one’s biases, when one wants to pass a racist law. Conservatives, Republicans wanted to pass a racist, xenophobic law to hit at Hispanics and for that, they manufactured the crises with masterful, Hitler style propaganda. Who cares if the crime rate in fact is at a 47 year low?
 

DaSleeper

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Godwin's law.

Can you actually support your views on Bill 1070, or are you just going to talk out your ass?
That is because he can't support the liberal/democratic scare that they are bringing forth that this law is racial profiling, when it specifies twice in that bill that it is illegal to do so...
So when finally backed into a corner....he uses the same old tactic....
Change the subject to one which he has ammunition for and try to link a relevancy and refuse to come back to the original subject...
It might be worth it to buy Glen Beck's book titled "Arguing with Idiots"
 

CDNBear

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That is because he can't support the liberal/democratic scare that they are bringing forth that this law is racial profiling, when it specifies twice in that bill that it is illegal to do so...
So when finally backed into a corner....he uses the same old tactic....
Change the subject to one which he has ammunition for and try to link a relevancy and refuse to come back to the original subject...
Like Icky, who also can't debate the Bill, so he's stuck on the word "crime".

I would love to have a legitimate debate on the Bill. But it seems that all these lefty types have is rhetoric, baffle gab and BS. Nothing of any substance.
It might be worth it to buy Glen Beck's book titled "Arguing with Idiots"
Good idea, Chummy. ;-)

I learned how to argue with "anti" people, long ago. I come into contact with anti hunting types all the time. I usually use the same tactic with anti Native types, until all reason is exhausted, then it's just a matter of exposing them as the racists they really are. Then you have to deal with the "Race card" cry babies that can't handle their racism being exposed to the light of day.
 

Downhome_Woman

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I say, stick to your guns Arizona, it's your state and you should dam well be able to make laws that your citizens agree with and tell the others to go to hell!!

Immigrants always think they know what is best for you, well if their so smart why did they screw up the country the're escapeing.

Hey there Durry, I'm assuming (and please tell me if I'm not right) that you are a descendant of immigrants to Canada. Tell me, how did your ancestors 'screw up the country they were escaping from'? If you are indeed a descendant of immigrants to Canada, then your ancestors did the very thing you're bitching about. they thought they knew what was best for the people that were already there.
What - are you afraid that what happened to the people that were here first is going to happen to you?
 

ironsides

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SirJosephPorter

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That is because he can't support the liberal/democratic scare that they are bringing forth that this law is racial profiling, when it specifies twice in that bill that it is illegal to do so...

You keep bringing up the same old canard again and again. Republicans say that the legislation is not racist, therefore it is not racist. Any student of logic 101 will point out the fallacy in that.

Suppose a company makes the policy that all its employees must be at least six feet tall. And in the next sentence they proclaim that the policy is not meant to discriminate against women. Would you believe them? Well, maybe you would, but I won't.

Saying racial profiling is illegal means nothing. Are you seriously claiming that police in Arizona are going to stop white people and ask them for identification? Not a chance, they will ask brown skinned people (not white or black skinned people) for identification.

If they pull over a van full of people, three white and three brown, you can be sure that they will ask the three brown people for ID, not the three white people.

And anyway, I come back to the question, if the crime rate in Arizona is in decline, has been for several decades, what was the necessity for the law?
 

CDNBear

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You keep bringing up the same old canard again and again. Republicans say that the legislation is not racist, therefore it is not racist. Any student of logic 101 will point out the fallacy in that.
Then please do so.

Suppose a company makes the policy that all its employees must be at least six feet tall. And in the next sentence they proclaim that the policy is not meant to discriminate against women. Would you believe them? Well, maybe you would, but I won't.
Neither would I, so why don't you should us where in Bill 1070, you can make a fair comparison?

Saying racial profiling is illegal means nothing. Are you seriously claiming that police in Arizona are going to stop white people and ask them for identification? Not a chance, they will ask brown skinned people (not white or black skinned people) for identification.
That's speculation. Care to provide some fact?

If they pull over a vna full of people, three white and three brown, you cna be sure that they will ask the three brown peopel for ID, not the three white people.
Again, speculation, and simply grounds for legal action under Bill 1070.

And anyway, I come back to the question, if the crime rate in Arizona is in decline, has been for several decades, what was the necessity for the law?
Stop deviating and debate the Bill with fact.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Mexican Pirates Terrorize Boaters on Border Lake

Breitbart.tv Mexican Pirates Terrorize Boaters on Border Lake



Border Patrol high-speed chase ends in arrests

May 22, 2010
Border Patrol agents chased a Ford Expedition 100 miles from the Mexico border to Irvine early Saturday morning before taking the driver and six undocumented passengers into custody, authorities said.
Border Patrol high-speed chase ends in arrests | L.A. NOW | Los Angeles Times

And how is this law going to stop pirates from terrorizing boaters? Are Arizona police going to approach the pirates in boats, ask them for ID and chase them away if they cannot produce ID? How many boats do Arizona police possess? What is their fire power? This was between border patrol and pirates, it had nothing to do with Arizona.

But indeed, I think that has been the central part of Republican propaganda which managed to convince Arizona people that crime rate is at an all time high, when it is practically at an all time low.

They dig up some horrifying crime story which may be totally unrelated to the legal or illegal Hispanic workers and then turn that story around to claim or imply that it is the fault of Hispanic workers. Hispanics are made the scapegoat. Or are you saying that most Hispanic workers moonlight part time as pirates?

Indeed, one begins to see how Hitler was successful in persuading German people that Jews are subhuman. Republican achievement in convincing Arizona public that crime rate is at an all time high when it is lowest since 1967 (and declining further) is nothing short of stupendous.
 

CDNBear

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Indeed, one begins to see how Hitler was successful in persuading German people that Jews are subhuman. Republican achievement in convincing Arizona public that crime rate is at an all time high when it is lowest since 1967 (and declining further) is nothing short of stupendous.
Childish attempt to hide Godwin's law...:lol: