The Official "Lets bash Christians" thread...

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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Cliffy, the Pope has never tried to cover anything up. He was instrumental in developing and implementing the one strike rule, by where one substantiated charge of child abuse will lead to the defrocking of any priest, all allegations are reported to local police for investigation and civil prosecution, any cover ups by supervisors or bishops will lead to dismissal from their posts.

Current news reports, police documents and even the reports from the church would state otherwise.

The one strike rule is nice and fancy, so long as the church doesn't keep it covered up, transfer the priest in question to another church, and continually denies everything to the bitter end until they have no other choice but to finally admit what happened.... AND THEN ask for forgiveness from the people they told to trust them.... ie: all of us.

The feeding frenzy we see now in search of culpability of an honourable man like Pope Benedict is a sign of just how hysterical and divorced from reason our society has become.

Seems to be the other way around in my view, but to each their own.

If i were a lawyer of a guilty client,....

Wait.... you already assume your client is guilty? I'd hate to have you as my lawyer.

cliffy, i would certainly want you on the jury.. since you obviously let whatever faddish modern moral paradigms exist, dictate your opinions.. hence it would be easy to use sophistry and demagoguery to turn Truth into fiction in your eyes. :)

And your statement above just proves you already have your mind set to one solid path, regardless of any evidence or information presented in the future...... since you know.... you claim your client is already guilty. :lol:
 

AnnaG

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Pot, kettle, black.. the most vociferous and puritanical views on the planet are now expounded by an agnostic paradigm..that of political correctness..
?? roflmao So the people that consider gods to be unknowable are vociferous, PC, and excessively strict in morals and religious dogma in a Protestant manner?
that deems itself with simple minded and reductive logic of 'inclusiveness' and 'diversity' to have determined, in contravention of the events and lessons of all human history, all of its faiths.. to have determined a relativistic, materialistic and radically individualistic moral code that has evolved at the 'end of history'.
:roll:

The primary postulate here is that there is NO overarching moral archetype, simply subjective ethical stereotypes, on which no moral judgements can be assessed. It is all simply a matter of your point of view. Carry this through to its logical end and you will see that ultimately morality will be imposed by power and privilege, those in possession of the tools of public opinion in the media and educational establishments. It is a recipe for tyranny, and is what all our 'tolerance' is stirring up.
*shrugs* Opinions abound.

They think its the end of the argument,
You know what others think? Your god made you a haruspex?
when everywhere it implemented societies collapse into confusion, pessimism and self gratification. It has produced nothing but family breakdown and misery. It champions sexual profligacy and ESPECIALLY homosexuality, the great scourge of the soul and to the well being of both the society and the individual where it becomes a legitimate and celebrated state. Look at history, this is not new, wherever homosexuality achieves this level of acceptance, the society itself in unravelling into chaos.
Yes, there is indeed a variety of opinions and that's one of them.
You going to start burning heretics anytime soon, Herr Inquisitor?

Please make my chastity belt out of silver. It's my favorite metal.

The Roman Catholic experience is that well in excess of 80% of the cases of child abuse have been of homosexual character. They been done by 4 - 6% of Catholic priests, who have at some time been involved with pederasty.
Considering the RCC's penchant for preferring choirboys, altarboys, etc. to actually be boys, there's a shocker.:roll:

The word pederasty is important since it defines an interest in adolescent boys, usually between 12 and 18, at the particularly vulnerable time of puberty and very young adulthood. Therefor these abuses have been accurately described as homosexual, and their protagonists as homosexuals, which the Church has always deemed as inconsistent and antithetical to a religious vocation.
So of course, because pederasts and pedophiles in the RCC go after boys, means that the whole planet's population of homosexuals have to be pederasts and pedophiles and inversely, all pederasts and pedophiles have to be homosexual. :roll:

From the figures above you should come to the conclusion that a large majority of Catholic priests are in fact truly celibate and that the primary cause of the abuse scandal is not celibacy.. it is homosexuality.
..... or else it is due to weak character, lack of diligence in screening applicants for the priesthood, etc..
It is 'priests' who have lied to put themselves in a position of enablement to sexual predation, and would have found other avenues, teaching, boy scouts, whatever, had this been unavailable to them. But it had nothing to do with celibacy, and renunciation of worldly gratifications in the interests of holiness, and is an aspect of most major religions.
Actually I agree that the RCC doesn't seem to be any more prone to a pederast, pedophile, or even homosexual population than any other society, but if you look at the ratio of boys to girls in availability in the RCC, it isn't surprising that any diddling would most likely be of a homosexual nature. I would think the same for the boy scouts and any other boy's society.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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Cliffy, the Pope has never tried to cover anything up. He was instrumental in developing and implementing the one strike rule, by where one substantiated charge of child abuse will lead to the defrocking of any priest, all allegations are reported to local police for investigation and civil prosecution, any cover ups by supervisors or bishops will lead to dismissal from their posts.

The feeding frenzy we see now in search of culpability of an honourable man like Pope Benedict is a sign of just how hysterical and divorced from reason our society has become.

If i were a lawyer of a guilty client, cliffy, i would certainly want you on the jury.. since you obviously let whatever faddish modern moral paradigms exist, dictate your opinions.. hence it would be easy to use sophistry and demagoguery to turn Truth into fiction in your eyes. :)
Yeah, Ratzinger is reacting righteously alright, AFTER all the attempts at hushing and ignoring what's been going on:

AP: Future pope stalled California pedophile case - USATODAY.com

But it isn't really his fault for trying to hush things up:

Ratzinger and Pedophilia in the Church
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Getting caught is a sign that the system is already broken, Christianity has been broken since the last Apostle died. So much the better it crashes, those big buildings were important in the OT, the NT Churches are wherever there are discussions about God, even the ones with no capital 'G'. lol
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Getting caught is a sign that the system is already broken, Christianity has been broken since the last Apostle died. So much the better it crashes, those big buildings were important in the OT, the NT Churches are wherever there are discussions about God, even the ones with no capital 'G'. lol
Wow! Canadian Content is a church! far out!
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Getting caught is a sign that the system is already broken, Christianity has been broken since the last Apostle died. So much the better it crashes, those big buildings were important in the OT, the NT Churches are wherever there are discussions about God, even the ones with no capital 'G'. lol
Now that's progress. Religion = bureaucracy between human and god. :D (paraphrasing Bill Maher)
 

AnnaG

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Wow! Canadian Content is a church! far out!
Or at least the religious threads are churches.
The way I understood it when I read the bible is that we each are our own church (mosque,temple, ...)
 

Cliffy

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Or at least the religious threads are churches.
The way I understood it when I read the bible is that we each are our own church (mosque,temple, ...)
Yup! I don't know how they screwed that one up. But it does make it hard to pass the collection plate.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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The rule for having two or three in discussion is so you can't pull a Jone's Town on the sheeple. You only want religion if you can be God, where did I hear something like that not so many years ago? lol
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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The rule for having two or three in discussion is so you can't pull a Jone's Town on the sheeple. You only want religion if you can be God, where did I hear something like that not so many years ago? lol
lol,
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Yup! I don't know how they screwed that one up. But it does make it hard to pass the collection plate.
That'd be a toughie alright, but a lotta the time the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing so it could be a closed circuit.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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Pot, kettle, black.. the most vociferous and puritanical views on the planet are now expounded by an agnostic paradigm.. that of political correctness.. that deems itself with simple minded and reductive logic of 'inclusiveness' and 'diversity' to have determined, in contravention of the events and lessons of all human history, all of its faiths.. to have determined a relativistic, materialistic and radically individualistic moral code that has evolved at the 'end of history'.

The primary postulate here is that there is NO overarching moral archetype, simply subjective ethical stereotypes, on which no moral judgements can be assessed. It is all simply a matter of your point of view. Carry this through to its logical end and you will see that ultimately morality will be imposed by power and privilege, those in possession of the tools of public opinion in the media and educational establishments. It is a recipe for tyranny, and is what all our 'tolerance' is stirring up.

They think its the end of the argument, when everywhere it implemented societies collapse into confusion, pessimism and self gratification. It has produced nothing but family breakdown and misery. It champions sexual profligacy and ESPECIALLY homosexuality, the great scourge of the soul and to the well being of both the society and the individual where it becomes a legitimate and celebrated state. Look at history, this is not new, wherever homosexuality achieves this level of acceptance, the society itself in unravelling into chaos.




The Roman Catholic experience is that well in excess of 80% of the cases of child abuse have been of homosexual character. They been done by 4 - 6% of Catholic priests, who have at some time been involved with pederasty.

The word pederasty is important since it defines an interest in adolescent boys, usually between 12 and 18, at the particularly vulnerable time of puberty and very young adulthood. Therefor these abuses have been accurately described as homosexual, and their protagonists as homosexuals, which the Church has always deemed as inconsistent and antithetical to a religious vocation.

From the figures above you should come to the conclusion that a large majority of Catholic priests are in fact truly celibate and that the primary cause of the abuse scandal is not celibacy.. it is homosexuality. It is 'priests' who have lied to put themselves in a position of enablement to sexual predation, and would have found other avenues, teaching, boy scouts, whatever, had this been unavailable to them. But it had nothing to do with celibacy, and renunciation of worldly gratifications in the interests of holiness, and is an aspect of most major religions.

No doubt extremist Catholics like Pope would dearly love to blame the sex abuse by priests on homosexuality. That will confirm their preconceived opinion that homosexuals are the Spawn of the Devil and are out to sink the Catholic Church.

However, that assertion is without merit, without any backing. Study after study indicates that pedophiles tend to be predominantly heterosexual, not homosexual. While they may molest and sexually abuse children or adolescents boys, when it comes to an adult, they prefer to have sex with a woman rather than a man.

But then in its typical extremist hateful fashion, Catholic Church is blaming the whole thing in homosexuals. Well, blaming homosexuals won’t solve the sex abuse problem. If Church bans homosexuals but continues to admit pedophiles, they are storing trouble for themselves and their flock.

It is so easy to blame everything on homosexuals, isn’t it? They are the despised, hated minority, they are headed straight for Hell (at least according to Catholic right wing beliefs), so why not blame the sex abuse by priests on them and be done with it? Unfortunately it is not htat simple. It is reminiscent of the times when people used to blame everything on witches. Your crops failed? Blame the witches. Your wife or husband dies? Witches again. Your sheep has gone missing? Why, the witches did it. It is the same philosophy, only these days, Catholics substitute ‘homosexuals’ for witches.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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Cliffy, the Pope has never tried to cover anything up. He was instrumental in developing and implementing the one strike rule, by where one substantiated charge of child abuse will lead to the defrocking of any priest, all allegations are reported to local police for investigation and civil prosecution, any cover ups by supervisors or bishops will lead to dismissal from their posts.

There have been several instances unearthed recently which indicates that Pope's behavior in covering up some of the abuse by the priests was questionable at best.

The feeding frenzy we see now in search of culpability of an honourable man like Pope Benedict is a sign of just how hysterical and divorced from reason our society has become.

Pope an honourable man? Don't make me laugh, there is nothing honourable about the Pope. In my opinion, Pope isn't really any different from any politician. His first priority is to stay in power, second priority to minimize any monetary compensation the Church may have to pay. He is in damage control mode big time.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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No doubt extremist Catholics like Pope would dearly love to blame the sex abuse by priests on homosexuality. That will confirm their preconceived opinion that homosexuals are the Spawn of the Devil and are out to sink the Catholic Church.

However, that assertion is without merit, without any backing. Study after study indicates that pedophiles tend to be predominantly heterosexual, not homosexual. While they may molest and sexually abuse children or adolescents boys, when it comes to an adult, they prefer to have sex with a woman rather than a man

The Catholic Church's characterization of homosexuality, as an intrinsic EVIL, is in fact accurate, if somewhat unpalatable in a culture as politically correct as the West has become.

The reason that all homosexuality is proscribed from the priesthood is that evil by its nature accepts no boundaries. Once the constituent natural law is broken, no other borders will apply. It will only be constrained by lack of opportunity and fear of legal or occupational retribution.

Your 'studies' are bogus, probably concocted by the rampant homosexual agenda, that has spared no duress or falsifications to classify homosexuality as normal and natural.. with any absurd argument.

The fact that other forms of evil exits, related to power and gratification, in no way impugns the Church's assessment of homosexuality. Nor is it surprising that position which comes with as much potential for proclaiming Truth as the priesthood, would also attract imposters whose proclomation is the false gospel of material gratification and radical individualism.

Pope an honourable man? Don't make me laugh, there is nothing honourable about the Pope. In my opinion, Pope isn't really any different from any politician. His first priority is to stay in power, second priority to minimize any monetary compensation the Church may have to pay. He is in damage control mode big time.

Cardinal Ratzingers hope was, on retirement from his post as Prefect for the Congregation of the Faith, a position second only to the Pontiff's is prestige and influence.. was to teach and write at a leisurely pace.. and perhaps edit and enhance his theological opus, likely the most brilliant and comprehensive of the contemporary era.

He had no ambition for Papacy, and you would have to be crazy to want a post where all of your privacy is sacrificed, and you make yourself a target for the yellow press and the shallow intellects that follow them, religiously.

Benedict is not only an honourable man, he is a great Pope, and one of the most formidable intellects of our age.
 
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coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
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Chillliwack, BC
Current news reports, police documents and even the reports from the church would state otherwise.

The one strike rule is nice and fancy, so long as the church doesn't keep it covered up, transfer the priest in question to another church, and continually denies everything to the bitter end until they have no other choice but to finally admit what happened.... AND THEN ask for forgiveness from the people they told to trust them.... ie: all of us.



Seems to be the other way around in my view, but to each their own.



:lol:

The One Strike Rule, also known as the American Rule, where it was first fully implemented, under Card. Ratzinger's role as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, essentially the Chief Justice of the Catholic Church, has in fact been followed, and has produced a dramatic reduction in the number of child abuse cases.

Increased vigour in identifying homosexuality, or pathological sexual deviants by way of testing, and increased oversight of seminaries has reduced the number of predators in the priesthood. Many simply don't apply anymore realizing that the culture of enablement and secrecy has been derailed.

It'll never be perfect, we know that, predators will slip through, but it is a lie to state that nothing has changed.

Wait.... you already assume your client is guilty? I'd hate to have you as my lawyer

AND.. i am not a lawyer, so you need have no concern about my defending you. :smile:
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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The Catholic Church's characterization of homosexuality, as an intrinsic EVIL, is in fact accurate, if somewhat unpalatable in a culture as politically correct as the West has become.
So you are saying that whatever the RCC says is fact? BLAT! Wrong answer; points deducted from your score. What the RCC says is often only its opinion and what you deem to be an RCC fact, is only your opinion.

The reason that all homosexuality is proscribed from the priesthood is that evil by its nature accepts no boundaries. Once the constituent natural law is broken, no other borders will apply. It will only be constained by lack of opportunity and fear of legal or occupational retribution.
And what decides what is natural law from what is natural rule-of-thumb or what is coincidence? The RCC? rofflmfao

Your 'studies' are bogus, probably concocted by the rampant homosexual agenda, that has spared no duress or falsifications to classify homosexuality as normal and natural.. with any absurd argument.
Prove it, then Herr Inquisitor.

The fact that other forms of evil exits, related to power and gratification, in no way impugns the Church's assessment of homosexuality. Nor is it surprising that position which comes with as much potential for proclaiming Truth as the priesthood, would also attract imposters whose proclomation is the false gospel of material gratification and radical individualism.
So you admit that the RCC has failed in a few matters. Yet you expound that it is factual in others. How would you know which is which unless you are above the RCC (or consider yourself to be above it)?



Cardinal Ratzingers hope was, on retirement from his post as Prefect for the Congregation of the Faith, a position second only to the Pontiff's is prestige and influence.. was to teach and write at a leisurely pace.. and perhaps edit and enhance his theological opus, likely the most brilliant of the contemporary era.

He had no ambition for Papacy, and you would have to be crazy to want a post where all of your privacy is sacrificed, and make yourself a target for the yellow press and the shallow intellects that follow them, religiously.
So Ratzinger is crazy. lol

Benedict is not only an honourable man, he is a great Pope, and one of the most formidable intellects of our age.
Opinions abound and that is one.
 

coldstream

on dbl secret probation
Oct 19, 2005
5,160
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Chillliwack, BC
So you are saying that whatever the RCC says is fact? BLAT! Wrong answer; points deducted from your score. What the RCC says is often only its opinion and what you deem to be an RCC fact, is only your opinion.

And what decides what is natural law from what is natural rule-of-thumb or what is coincidence? The RCC? rofflmfao

Prove it, then Herr Inquisitor.

So you admit that the RCC has failed in a few matters. Yet you expound that it is factual in others. How would you know which is which unless you are above the RCC (or consider yourself to be above it)?





So Ratzinger is crazy. lol

Opinions abound and that is one.

It's you who should be the lawyer, Anna. You have a gift for taking inverting the substance of what is being said, and completely misrepresenting it to your own advantage.

You should definitely choose clients who are indisputably guilty, so you can apply your talents of obfuscating and deluding to confuse the jury as to be unsure that there are ANY set moral compass points.

The latter, in stating that they do exist, and in fact will define our destiny, has been the jist of my arguments from the start. The fact that you choose to represent the opposite, the relativistic morality of political correctness, simply proves that you have found a client that matches your skill base perfectly.

And i absolutely admit the Catholic Church is not perfect. It is invested with agendas and hangers-on and opportunists that have nothing to do with its true purpose and identity.

Vatican 2 stated that the Church of Christ SUBSISTS in the Catholic Church, which aknowledges there are many agendas and individuals who claim to represent it, who in fact work for its destruction, within its offices and appararti.

But you'd have to accept there are absolute and manifest representations of Good and Evil in the world to accept that, and that is a fundamental anathema to political correctness.

The fact that absolute and manifest Evil would attack, infiltrate and seek to destroy the ONLY true vehicle of absolute and manifest Good, in the Church of Christ, would be of no surprise to those who apprehend the reality of these entities. :smile:
 
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Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Coldstream, you are like a one man inquisition PR officer. But having been in the business for almost 50 years, I can say, unequivocally, that you are not very good at it. You try to speak with a voice of authority but the facts do not support your homophobic assumptions or your undying faith in a corrupt and dying organization. After 2 thousand years of corruption, violence and crimes against humanity, it is time that the church rolled over and died, thus ending it's reign of terror. The Pope is no more honourable than any other politician or head of state. His holiness is only valid in the eyes of his worshipers.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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It's you who should be the lawyer, Anna. You have a gift for taking inverting the substance of what is being said, and completely misrepresenting it to your own advantage.
What does the part in bold mean?
Anyway, no I shouldn't be a lawyer. I should be exactly who I am.

You should definitely chose clients who are indisputably guilty, where you can apply your talents of obfuscating and deluding to so confuse the jury as to be unsure that there are ANY set moral compass points.
Oh, there are lots of moral compasses around. I have my own set that I developed for myself and I don't accept anyone else's moral compass as having any dominion over me. To a point I accept society's morals, though.
rofflmfao about the "obfuscating and deluding" part.
Euripides once said, "Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish." and I've been talking sense to you for quite a few months now.

The latter, in stating that they do exist, and in fact will define our destiny, has been the jist of my arguments from the start. The fact that your chose to represent the opposite, the relativistic morality of political correctness, simply proves that you have found client that matches your skill base perfectly.
.... you would like to think.

And i absolutely admit the Catholic Church is not perfect. It is invested with agendas and hangers on and opportunists that have nothing to do with its true role.
And you are the one to determine what its true role is, right? :roll:

Vatican 2 stated that the Church of Christ SUBSISTS in the Catholic Church, which aknowledged there are many agendas and individuals who claim to represent it, who in fact work for its destruction.
So? The Bible says that each of us is a church in ourselves. Big deal. Who is to discern who is trying to destroy any church? You?
Face it, coldstream, most of what you have claimed here as fact are not fact, but simply your opinions.