HEALTH CARE - User fees

[ironsides]

Every publicly funded county hospital has these clinics. Here is one for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Memorial_Hospital here is another one in my county. http://www.browardhealth.org/

Almost every county in every state in the U.S. has atleast one. The charitable hospitals are in addition to these.

 

[pfezziwig]

Our current healthcare system is unsustainable, yet everyone seems to suggest more spending year after year as a solution? Is there anyone left in canada who does not know healthcare costs are increasing dramatically? Why continue on this unsustainable course? Come on people, we all know private healthcare is the only solution, stop pretending higher taxes and more spending will solve it.

 

[JLM]

Our current healthcare system is unsustainable, yet everyone seems to suggest more spending year after year as a solution? Is there anyone left in canada who does not know healthcare costs are increasing dramatically? Why continue on this unsustainable course? Come on people, we all know private healthcare is the only solution, stop pretending higher taxes and more spending will solve it.

I've been "beating that drum" for awhile, but not getting through.....:lol::lol:

 

[Nuggler]

S'not free in Ont. at the moment. We pay a Provincial "tax" every year (470.00approx), depending on one's income. Course, it's not really a tax. It's a ........well..........tax. McDickhead says it ain't a tax. Liberals don't lie.:roll: Check yer tax form. Unless they stopped it, and our accountant didn't tell us. doubt it.

Before OHIP, Dr.'s used to charge at the door for office visits. Something like $5.00. We had to be gawdam sick before going to the doc. If you went into hospital with no 'blue cross' or whatever, you PAID!!! Our family paid into blue cross, and some little terd came to the door each month to collect. FUKK!!!!! Those were the days, eh!!. People lost their houses in Ontario due to illness. Why in Christ's name do people think we DON'T WANT THE AMERICAN PLAN.???? I had to have my tonsils out and my mother wouldn't speak to me for years. :lol:
We used to pay a monthly fee for OHIP also.........just remembered.

Many doctors waived their office fee, including ours for a time, cause we were poor as church mice. When we became only as poor as church rats, then we had to pay.

So, frame forward to 21st C: We have rampant unemployment, industry is gone, the great Mulroo has given us jobs, jobs, jobs, TAXES ON BUSINESS KEEP GOING DOWN, thereby lowering government INCOME, and we have Einsteins wanting to up the cost to patients................(fries with that??)

We wuz thinking on escaping to Greece, but I guess they have a few problems there too.:-?

The very best we can do is bitch that there wasn't enough French at the opening of the olympics.

 

[Tonington]

With our healthcare system being in a bad state of disarray to the point where people are waiting months for certain procedures and people in some areas are even finding it next to impossible to have their own family doctor, I think something fairly unorhtodox has to be done. I suggest that for each initial visit for an illness (people on social assistance being exempt) that the patient pays a $20 fee up front. What this might do is discourage people with trivial complaints like runny noses and hangnails from running to the doctor and running up costs the rest of us can't afford and adding to line ups in the system delaying sick people getting treatment. It might also stimulate some people to get off their rear end and take care of their own health, like maybe getting a little exercise. What do you think?

I've always like the idea of users fees, but slightly different than what you propose. If we had private clinics to offer services that are already in high demand, and collected user fees from those forgoing the public system, everyone would have reduced wait times. User fees would cover the costs of training doctors which go into the private system.

I know it's not popular here in Canada to suggest "two tiers", but there is no reason why a two tier system couldn't be beneficial to both "tiers".

 

[AnnaG]

I've always like the idea of users fees, but slightly different than what you propose. If we had private clinics to offer services that are already in high demand, and collected user fees from those forgoing the public system, everyone would have reduced wait times. User fees would cover the costs of training doctors which go into the private system.

I know it's not popular here in Canada to suggest "two tiers", but there is no reason why a two tier system couldn't be beneficial to both "tiers".

I see nothing wrong with either private + public insurance as well as private +public medical facilities either, but be prepared to undergo a barrage of whiny "it won't work", "what ifs", and "it'll make ours just like the disaster in the USA".
People that go out of country to get decent healthcare now might just stick around to get it privately here and private facilities would create a new source of revenue for the gov't. It's definitely going to need more revenue as the demographics of Canadians age.

 

[JLM]

I see nothing wrong with either private + public insurance as well as private +public medical facilities either, but be prepared to undergo a barrage of whiny "it won't work", "what ifs", and "it'll make ours just like the disaster in the USA".
People that go out of country to get decent healthcare now might just stick around to get it privately here and private facilities would create a new source of revenue for the gov't. It's definitely going to need more revenue as the demographics of Canadians age.

I think the main problem lies with the fact that a lot of people can't get their heads around the fact that Gov't. isn't good at doing business and it was not the original intent ol Gov't . Gov't is there to enact legislation and ensure compliance. Of course everyone in the country realizes how inept the Gov.' t. is at handling money (just a little worse than my 9 year old grand daughter):smile: User fees will not put undue hardship on the destitute or mentally handicapped etc as they can just be issued a card with an account #. One of our resident geniuses keeps bringing up this one single problem (that these people are going to die) but it certainly doesn't require rocket science to solve it.

 

[VanIsle]

Our current healthcare system is unsustainable, yet everyone seems to suggest more spending year after year as a solution? Is there anyone left in canada who does not know healthcare costs are increasing dramatically? Why continue on this unsustainable course? Come on people, we all know private healthcare is the only solution, stop pretending higher taxes and more spending will solve it.

I couldn't disagree with you more regarding private healthcare. BC is looking at offering care to USA patients because our surgical costs are more than 4 times lessthan the same procedures being performed there. They will of course have to pay 4 times more but will still pay considerably less than in the USA. Sounds like a great idea to me.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Our current healthcare system is unsustainable, yet everyone seems to suggest more spending year after year as a solution? Is there anyone left in canada who does not know healthcare costs are increasing dramatically? Why continue on this unsustainable course? Come on people, we all know private healthcare is the only solution, stop pretending higher taxes and more spending will solve it.

Indeed. What we need is American style health care here, then it will be paradise indeed in Canada, just as it is the paradise in USA. Let us see if we can top USA. They have about 40 million, that is 13% of the population without insurance, let us see if we can get 20% Canadians (or about 6 million) without insurance of any kind under the new US style health care system.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I've been "beating that drum" for awhile, but not getting through.....:lol::lol:

And you will never get through, at least not to me. Those who look enviously south of the border and pine for American style health care system, let them move to USA. We don't want two USAs here in North America, one the original and one the weaker, imitation copy. One is enough.

 

[countryboy]

Our current healthcare system is unsustainable, yet everyone seems to suggest more spending year after year as a solution? Is there anyone left in canada who does not know healthcare costs are increasing dramatically? Why continue on this unsustainable course? Come on people, we all know private healthcare is the only solution, stop pretending higher taxes and more spending will solve it.

Indeed. What we need is American style health care here, then it will be paradise indeed in Canada, just as it is the paradise in USA. Let us see if we can top USA. They have about 40 million, that is 13% of the population without insurance, let us see if we can get 20% Canadians (or about 6 million) without insurance of any kind under the new US style health care system.

I think pfessiwig is pointing out a very real disaster coming our way. SirJP, do you not see it coming? Or do you simply not care about the consequences?

I didn't see any suggestion to adopt anything from what's going on south of us, so why would you even bring that up?

Can you enlighten us to your suggestions to address the ever-growing cost burden in Canada?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

S'not free in Ont. at the moment. We pay a Provincial "tax" every year (470.00approx), depending on one's income. Course, it's not really a tax. It's a ........well..........tax. McDickhead says it ain't a tax. Liberals don't lie.:roll: Check yer tax form. Unless they stopped it, and our accountant didn't tell us. doubt it.

Before OHIP, Dr.'s used to charge at the door for office visits. Something like $5.00. We had to be gawdam sick before going to the doc. If you went into hospital with no 'blue cross' or whatever, you PAID!!! Our family paid into blue cross, and some little terd came to the door each month to collect. FUKK!!!!! Those were the days, eh!!.
We used to pay a monthly fee for OHIP also.........just remembered.

Of course those were the days, that was paradise on earth. Didn’t you see conservatives here glorify those days in the thread where they vividly described to us how Canada was positively a paradise 50 years ago?

No doubt many conservatives here pine for the days you describe; they would want to go back to those Good Old Days.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I've always like the idea of users fees, but slightly different than what you propose. If we had private clinics to offer services that are already in high demand, and collected user fees from those forgoing the public system, everyone would have reduced wait times. User fees would cover the costs of training doctors which go into the private system.

I know it's not popular here in Canada to suggest "two tiers", but there is no reason why a two tier system couldn't be beneficial to both "tiers".

Many countries do have a two tier system and I am not opposed to it in principle. It is a matter for discussion as to exactly how it should operate. And user fees in the private system won't hurt anybody. However, user fees as proposed by JLM are nonsense.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I couldn't disagree with you more regarding private healthcare. BC is looking at offering care to USA patients because our surgical costs are more than 4 times lessthan the same procedures being performed there. They will of course have to pay 4 times more but will still pay considerably less than in the USA. Sounds like a great idea to me.

A great source of revenue. Indeed, the costs are low in Canada, much lower than USA precisely because it is government run. Privatize it in Canada, make it similar to USA and watch the costs here also skyrocket.

Indeed, that is one of the reasons for sky high costs of health care in USA, much higher than any other developed country. The reason is that other systems are run by the government, American system is run by the insurance companies (whose first priority is to make money, not to heal the sick).

If we privatize health care, two things will happen almost at once. We will have a huge number of Canadians without any insurance, and the health care costs will skyrocket.

 

[countryboy]

A great source of revenue. Indeed, the costs are low in Canada, much lower than USA precisely because it is government run. Privatize it in Canada, make it similar to USA and watch the costs here also skyrocket.

Indeed, that is one of the reasons for sky high costs of health care in USA, much higher than any other developed country. The reason is that other systems are run by the government, American system is run by the insurance companies (whose first priority is to make money, not to heal the sick).

If we privatize health care, two things will happen almost at once. We will have a huge number of Canadians without any insurance, and the health care costs will skyrocket.

But the real question is, will there be user fees? (In Canada)

 

[SirJosephPorter]

But the real question is, will there be user fees? (In Canada)

I seriously doubt it countryboy. There is very little public support for it, and it is the wrong thing to do. Health care must be free at the point of delivery. If revenues need to be raised, they should be raised elsewhere. Or services could be cut. But I don't see user fees coming.

 

[talloola]

User fees are useful from one perspective - they cut down on needless visits to ER for stupid things like colds.

However, they also tend to prevent some (typically seniors who are 'careful' with their money) from accessing health care when they should, which usually translates to more expensive, longer hospital stays later on.

Yes, I agree, as I am a senior, and upon retirement we lost
all of our dental coverage, and now I am ignoring the care
of my teeth, because of high cost, they are not in bad condition but need attention, and I don't go, so I would
imagine many seniors and others in need would do the same
if they had to pay user fees up front, many do not have
the money, so, will not go, until it's too late and
conditions have become serious.

 

[ironsides]

And you will never get through, at least not to me. Those who look enviously south of the border and pine for American style health care system, let them move to USA. We don't want two USAs here in North America, one the original and one the weaker, imitation copy. One is enough.

Those looking for better health care do not have to move anywhere, American medicine is pretty much open to Canadians as was mentioned earlier. In most cases your provincial insurance will cover any procedure you may need in the U.S. and if not you can always pick up an additional policy to cover what yours may not. Whether you like it or not, you do have two USAs here in North America, one bigger and one smaller, both getting along fantastically.

 

[countryboy]

I seriously doubt it countryboy. There is very little public support for it, and it is the wrong thing to do. Health care must be free at the point of delivery. If revenues need to be raised, they should be raised elsewhere. Or services could be cut. But I don't see user fees coming.

Any ideas on where revenues could be raised?

Or, which services should be cut?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Those looking for better health care do not have to move anywhere, American medicine is pretty much open to Canadians as was mentioned earlier. In most cases your provincial insurance will cover any procedure you may need in the U.S. and if not you can always pick up an additional policy to cover what yours may not.

No it won't, American costs are much higher than Canadian costs. Our insurance will only pay for how much it costs in Canada, most of the cost still has to be borne by the patient.

Plus, I am not sure that our insurance will pay at all for elective treatment abrad, it probably won't. It will pay only for emergency treatment.

Whether you like it or not, you do have two USAs here in North America, one bigger and one smaller, both getting along fantastically.

We have USA and Canada, we don't have two USAs, and we never will, unless conservatives have their way here in Canada.